Question about shielding

[Taishar Manetheren]

I just finished tFoH for this reread and i was wondering about the shield that rand had when they kidnaped him.

Rand alwasy tell us about 6 soft point that hold the shield and when that turn hard it means its knoted and he can break through it.

In the battle of Dumai's wells he feels 4 being knoted and then 1 returns to soft.

 

Does that mean that the aes sedai are not linked when they shield Rand?

If they are linked then it should be one focus point from the 1 controling the link no?

if they arent linked then how can they make 1 shield together it doesnt make sense...

unless its 6 shield piled one on another?

 

which option do you think? im thinking the 6 shields piled together.

[Guest cwestervelt]

The Aes Sedai that were holding Rand were not linked. The Shield was comprised of 6 seperate component pieces fitted together into a single shield.

 

The idea of 6 shields piled on top of each other comes close, but doesn't quite fit. It's close because each of the individual parts appears to thicken the shield much like the layer of a cake. With a cake, you don't get exposure to all points at once though but would have 1 complete section at a time. An artificial iris (like the focus in some cameras) where you have a partial overlap of each section by the next to it would probably be a better analogy.

[Luckers]

That doesn't match what we've seen in other scenes though, for instance the shielding of Logain in LoC.

 

Aside from which, where do you get your information? Or is it just a theory?

[Guest cwestervelt]

Basically my interpretation of Rand's experience in LoC. The idea of the overlap provided by the sections of an artificial iris developed from Rand's noting that the Shield, while remaining whole and complete, started to seem more pliable as knots were removed.

 

The six points forming one focus initially made me think of 6 equilateral trianglr shields that touched at the edges and formed a complete circle. Then I started thinking how making them all overlap on one would increase the strength.

 

Addition:

Was your question about the shield having an iris structure or the lack of a link between the sisters holding it? Linking couldn't be done because then the knot would be an all or nothing deal. A point wouldn't turn hard when a Sister withdrew from the link.

[Taishar Manetheren]

Linking couldn't be done because then the knot would be an all or nothing deal. A point wouldn't turn hard when a Sister withdrew from the link.

 

Thats what i said sort of.

 

If they are linked then it should be one focus point from the 1 controling the link no?

 

My question now is why dont they link, wouldnt it be more difficult to break it then?

[Guest cwestervelt]

Linking doesn't add the strength levels together. Asmodean talks about it with Rand in The Fires of Heaven.

 

Essentially, it would take 13 Aes Sedai linked to create and maintain as effective of a Shield as 6 can create and maintain if they keep the flows seperate.

[Luckers]

Thats actually not true, which we know from the incident with Logain. Originally it was a link of thirteen which Romanda commanded be brought down into a less powerful, but equally effective link of six.

 

And whilst linking does not add strength, it does increase it making two or more channelers into one stronger channeler... not the exact measure of twice their strength, but still significantly stronger then either alone.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

about the linking and the points...i think it was 6 shields piled onto one another. theres no way they would have been linked, otherwise all of the aes sedai would have felt it when rand untied one of the knots.

 

that part of the book is great...when rand learns that he can talk to lews therin...good stuff

[Wise One]

Just to muddy the waters a little, but wasn't Rand initially shielded by 13 channelers when he was captured? They were disguised as servants so he didn't realise they were all Aes Sedai (or Accepted etc). However, the shield is then only held by six.

 

I'm pretty sure shielding is initially done as one weave through a linked circle, but that the shield can then be maintained by fewer channelers than the original circle. How that works seems a bit complicated. I'm also pretty sure its stated someone in some book that it takes 13 Aes Sedai to cut a man from the source if he is holding it, but then less to actually keep him cut off (or cut him off before he tries to reach saidin).

[drakhon]

Shielding someone who holds the Source takes considerably more strength than either maintaining that shield after it is established or simply shielding them while they do not hold it.

 

13 of the weakest women linked together can shield the strongest man holding saidin, though. Using 13 was the only way the Aes Sedai could be certain they could shield Rand. They later stepped it down to 6, but we don't see that transition nor the one to 6 separate weaves by unlinked channelers.

 

The numbers used are largely tradition when it comes to the Aes Sedai. It is highly doubtful that the people they had available were so weak that they needed 13 to shield Rand. Part of that was tradition. Six separate shields maintained (not tied off) simultaneously after the initial shielding is also tradition.