My thoughts on lucker's TAR unseen eyes theory

[thevillagecouncil]

So from reading Lucker's TAR eyes theory that they are the big unnoticed thing, it got me thinking. They seem to be a malevolent force that has been watching all the events happen from TAR. Now Lucker's point out a similarity between the TAR eyes and the unseen eyes in shadar logoth as well. He goes on to theorize that Mordeth discovered something he shouldn't have and that it was the source of the unseen eyes. It was his findings that corrupted him and brought the ruin of aridhol and it's possible that the evil behind the eye's leaked from TAR into the physical world and inhabited shadar logoth. There was a way gate in aridhol and from what I remember, machin shin didn't exist before this point. Could there be a connection between the UE's and the corruption of the ways? If the eyes could leak into the real world perhaps they could leak into the ways as well, right? I believe it is the UE that corrupted shadar logoth and made it evil, as well as spawned machin shin through the way gate there.

I also think that the eyes can't corrupt people in TAR because they are only there in a dream state. If one were to be there in the flesh the eyes influence is much greater and that is why the wise one's say if you enter the world of dreams you lose part of what makes you human. We know that the forsaken used to meet in TAR all the time, perhaps it is this reason that they turned their minds towards being a dark friend? who knows! Egwene has entered TAR as well, but only once so it might take a long time for the effect to be noticable. Rand however, has entered it multiple times in the flesh and the eyes could be a contributing factor to his insanity. Now the big question is, what force could be so powerful that it can cause such havoc? Perhaps a nightmare, or the physical manifestation of all nightmares? One so powerful it has the ability to corrupt and influence everything in the world of dreams and even reach into the waking world and the ways. Does the dark one dream? An interesting thought...

 

 

summary:

I believe it is the UE that corrupted shadar logoth and made it evil, as well as spawned machin shin through the way gate there. Entering TAR in the flesh makes one vulnerable to it's insanity causing corruption. The force behind the UE is the manifestation of all nightmares the spans across all worlds.

[FarShainMael]

.......shivvvvverrrrrrrrrrrr....

 

Is it Trollocs or Fades who can't dream?

[Luckers]

He goes on to theorize that Mordeth discovered something he shouldn't have and that it was the source of the unseen eyes. It was his findings that corrupted him and brought the ruin of aridhol and it's possible that the evil behind the eye's leaked from TAR into the physical world and inhabited shadar logoth.

 

To be clear, we know Mordeth found something he shouldn't have, which changed and tainted him--and that that evil spread to create Shadar Logoth. Brandon has stated this. I simply theorize that the thing he found was the Unseen Eyes.

 

There was a way gate in aridhol and from what I remember, machin shin didn't exist before this point. Could there be a connection between the UE's and the corruption of the ways? If the eyes could leak into the real world perhaps they could leak into the ways as well, right? I believe it is the UE that corrupted shadar logoth and made it evil, as well as spawned machin shin through the way gate there.

 

RJ spoke on this. Shadar Logoth did not spawn Machin Shin--The Black Wind grew on the residual Taint left by the workings of saidin that made the ways.

 

Q: In The Great Hunt, when Rand, Mat and Perrin are trying to enter the Ways, Machin Shin is waiting there for them. It seems like Padan Fain has it waiting there for them. Is Machin Shin in any way related to the evil of Shadar Logoth?

 

RJ: In some ways. Machin Shin is linked, or you might say drawn, to that. It's not a matter of linked, but more attracted by, in much the same ways as I spoke about the evils being attracted to one another due to opposite polarities. (Shadar Logoth and the taint) In the same way there is an attraction because Machin Shin was created in effect by the taint. It grew out. You can see it as a fungus that was constructed with the wrong type of materials. If you think about it as that way you get a better idea about its true nature.

 

I also think that the eyes can't corrupt people in TAR because they are only there in a dream state. If one were to be there in the flesh the eyes influence is much greater and that is why the wise one's say if you enter the world of dreams you lose part of what makes you human.

 

That is a very, very interesting thought. Until now I had largely believed that the Wise One's were making the same mistake they made in stating that pulling someone into the dream was evil--that it had been used for evil by the Forsaken did not make it intrinsically evil. I think I like this thought better.

 

You know the next thing I notice? Perrin's method of dreaming bears more in similarity with entering the Dream in the flesh than it does with dreamwalking.

[bulf]

.......shivvvvverrrrrrrrrrrr....

 

Is it Trollocs or Fades who can't dream?

 

It's Fades that can't dream.

[yoniy0]

You know the next thing I notice? Perrin's method of dreaming bears more in similarity with entering the Dream in the flesh than it does with dreamwalking.

How so? Doesn't he usually go to sleep, focusing on finding himself there once he's under?

[Luckers]

You know the next thing I notice? Perrin's method of dreaming bears more in similarity with entering the Dream in the flesh than it does with dreamwalking.

How so? Doesn't he usually go to sleep, focusing on finding himself there once he's under?

 

In function--he retains greater solidity, moving physically rather than jumping from place to place. Read egwene's trip through TAR in Lord of Chaos and compare it to Perrin's presence in the Wolf Dream.

 

And the point is not how he enters the dream, but the nature of how present he is in the dream. If the Eyes are able to touch people dreaming in the flesh and that is the source of the corruption, then it makes sense that Perrin would be the one to identify the threat.

[yoniy0]

In function--he retains greater solidity, moving physically rather than jumping from place to place. Read egwene's trip through TAR in Lord of Chaos and compare it to Perrin's presence in the Wolf Dream.

 

And the point is not how he enters the dream, but the nature of how present he is in the dream. If the Eyes are able to touch people dreaming in the flesh and that is the source of the corruption, then it makes sense that Perrin would be the one to identify the threat.

I disagree. He tends to use his legs to get around because he isn't as familiar with tel'aran'rhiod. We know that he's capable of using those 'jumps'. He just doesn't yet realize that it's better that way.

[Luckers]

In function--he retains greater solidity, moving physically rather than jumping from place to place. Read egwene's trip through TAR in Lord of Chaos and compare it to Perrin's presence in the Wolf Dream.

 

And the point is not how he enters the dream, but the nature of how present he is in the dream. If the Eyes are able to touch people dreaming in the flesh and that is the source of the corruption, then it makes sense that Perrin would be the one to identify the threat.

I disagree. He tends to use his legs to get around because he isn't as familiar with tel'aran'rhiod. We know that he's capable of using those 'jumps'. He just doesn't yet realize that it's better that way.

 

And why do we know this? Because Dreamwalkers can? Perrin can see windows in the sky, but Dreamwalkers can't. Why should we assume the abilities are similar in this reguard.

[yoniy0]

And why do we know this? Because Dreamwalkers can? Perrin can see windows in the sky, but Dreamwalkers can't. Why should we assume the abilities are similar in this reguard.

Ah, I'm sorry. No, we know that because we saw him do it. When he chased Isam to the ToG.

[Luckers]

And why do we know this? Because Dreamwalkers can? Perrin can see windows in the sky, but Dreamwalkers can't. Why should we assume the abilities are similar in this reguard.

Ah, I'm sorry. No, we know that because we saw him do it. When he chased Isam to the ToG.

 

Can I get a quote? My recollection is the blurring run that covered miles, like that employed by Egwene when she was there in the flesh. No jumping.

[yoniy0]

Can I get a quote? My recollection is the blurring run that covered miles, like that employed by Egwene when she was there in the flesh. No jumping.

It turns out you're right, his chasing of Isam is described as long leaps, each spanning miles - which I took for what I call 'jumps'. The reason I did is this piece, not long before the pursuit began:

Fixing his eye on the highest peak bordering the valley, just below the clouds, he stepped. The world blurred, and he was standing on the mountainside, with white billows not five spans overhead. In spite of himself, he laughed. This was fun. From here he could see the entire valley stretched out below.