The Unseen Eyes of Tel'aran'rhiod

[Luckers]

As some of you know I have called the Big Unnoticed Thing as the Unseen Eyes of Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

The first citing of the girls feeling eyes on them in Tel'aran'rhiod occurs in book four...

 

Studying the columns herself, Egwene shrugged uncomfortably. It did feel as if, they were being watched. No doubt it was just because they were the only people in the Stone. No one who had access to Tel'aran'rhiod could expect to find anyone to watch, here. [tSR;35, Sharp Lessons]

 

It gets referenced frequently, however. Here are some of the quotes.

 

"...She had the sensation of being watched from the dimnesses between the columns..."

"...The emptiness of the vast chamber oppressed her, all those great polished columns and that sense of being watched from the dimness between..."

”... there was often a feel of unseen eyes in the World of Dreams…”

"...that sensation of being watched that was so common in Tel’aran ‘rhiod. It was all Nynaeve could do not to flee..."

“…Suddenly very much aware of feeling unseen eyes…”

“…She had almost grown accustomed to the feel of unseen eyes in this vast chamber…”

“…Even the feel of unseen eyes could not touch her through her anger this morning…”

“…often she had the feeling of eyes watching…”

"...calling [Egwene] did nothing except increase that uneasy feeling of being watched..."

"...she became aware of being watched by unseen eyes. That sensation was always present in Tel'aran'rhiod, and not even the Wise Ones knew why..."

"...The ever-present sensation of unseen eyes watching was not dreamlike..."

"...That no longer seemed any odder to her than the feel of unseen eyes watching..."

 

The Ongoing Principal: First mentioned in book 4, with heavy mention in through books four and five, slows down a bit in book 6, and then has one mention each in books 7, 9 &10. This fits neatly with the Ongoing Principal.

The Discussion Factor: I cannot recall it being discussed once on DM, though Terez stated that it had been on Theoryland

Revelation Requirements: The eyes are an oddity that is brought up often and never explained. We indeed should have taken notice the second they appeared. This fits perfectly.

Presence in the Later Books: Fades into the background more after book six, so no problem here.

Potential Impact: Uncertain. The eyes have a dire feel to them, but we have no specific indication of what may come from them should this be the BUT.

Other Thoughts/Problems: None.

 

Terez from Theoryland thinks that picking one theory from the multitude is meaningless unless I can explain the impact of the Unseen Eyes. I think that's silly. Nothing in Brandon's comments indicates that we should predict the impact of the Unnoticed Thing, just that we should have noticed it in itself. This directly parallel's the way the Big Unnoticed Thing in the Mistborn series played out--we had hints that something weird was going on, but no clue as to its impact or reality. For those interested in exploring this point further check out my post on the Mistborn Spoiler which can be found here. I do strongly suggest you actually read the series, however. It is good and this will spoile a great deal for you.

 

But alright, I've been called out, and I've never been one to back away from a challenge. Here are my thoughts on the Unseen Eyes.

 

The Evil That Twisted Mordeth and Gave Birth to Shadar Logoth

 

Brandon has told us that Mordeth, in searching for ways to combat the Shadow, encountered an entirely different evil which changed him into what he is, and is currently driving him.

 

Matt: Ok. You mentioned that Mordeth was a man that had "power". You are reported as saying that his power was that "which he got by seeking out all of the evil things that weren’t related to the Shadow"…

 

Brandon: ...he was seeking things that were related to the Shadow. I think that that might be a misquote. He was looking into the power of the Shadow in order to defeat it, was his goal. He was looking into everything. He was looking into things that were not necessarily related to the Dark One as well. He was looking for everything that he could get…

 

Matt: ...previous to him arriving to Aridhol?

 

Brandon: ...Yeah...

 

Matt: ...before he went to the King and became the counselor, Mordeth was this guy that went around searching for Power?

 

Brandon: Yeah, he wanted to defeat the Dark One and he felt that he could find other ways to do it […] He originally was good. He did not…he wasn’t this terrible person to begin with but he was looking to defeat the Dark One, to find a way to defeat the Shadow. And he looked into a lot of things he shouldn’t have looked into. There are evils that are not necessarily directly related to the Dark One, though everything evil kind of has…just as there are goods that are not related necessarily to the One Power…we are talking much as Perrin runs with wolves. This is a thing older than…there are other evils things that are old in a similar way…

 

Matt: ...is the assumption then that he found one of these?

 

Brandon: He did.

 

Matt: He found one or multiple?

 

Brandon: He found many things of darkness. There is one in specific that is driving him but he knew too much. He found things he should not have gotten into and that is what turned him into…when he got there he was already corrupt. He still thought he was doing a good work. He still thought we are going to raise this Kingdom up and it is going to become this bastion against the Shadow, but he was already by then corrupted.

 

[Hah - Maybe I should have asked if Mordeth was under the influence of the Finns...or at the very least if they were one of the powers he found in his quest...  ]

 

Matt: Is this same corrupting influence what corrupts everyone through the dagger itself?

 

Brandon: Yeah. Through him. yes. And even through his presence.

 

So, this evil exists seperate of him, is driving him (or perhaps was before Fain's introduction and the presence of DO evil--it has been stated Fain is unique), and is the source of all the corruption related to Shadar Logoth.

 

The Unseen Eyes of Shadar Logoth

 

It must be noted that a direct parallel exists between the Unseen Eyes of TAR, and those of Shadar Logoth.

 

The back of his neck prickled. Something was watching them from the darkness in the columns. He spun around, staring at the buildings across the way. He could feel eyes on him from there, too. His grip tightened on his sword hut, though he wondered what good it would be. Watching eyes seemed to be everywhere. The others looked around warily; he

knew they could feel it, too.

 

[tEotW; 19, Shadow's Waiting]

 

The watchers followed them. Or else there were lots of watchers, lots of eyes staring out of almost every building. Rand could not see anything move, hard as he tried, but he could feel the eyes, eager, hungry. He did not know which would be worse. Thousands of eyes, or just a few, following them.

 

[tEotW; 19, Shadow's Waiting]

 

At last, with twilight falling, they came in sight of the white stone building they had left what seemed like days ago. Suddenly the watching eyes departed. Between one step and the next, they vanished in a blink. Without a word Rand broke into a trot, followed by his friends, then a full run that only ended when they hared through the doorway and collapsed, panting.

 

[tEotW; 19, Shadow's Waiting]

 

Disturbingly similar descriptions. Of course this cannot be the BUT--it's mentioned in book one, after all. More on that in a second, though I would point out that these eyes are noted to have grown worse in LoC.

 

Rand turned slowly where he stood, staring up at windows like empty eye sockets, the eyes gouged out. With the sun climbing high he could feel unseen watchers. When he had been here before, that feeling had not come this strongly until the sun began to go down.

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

Rand hesitated. Well short of midafternoon yet, and he could feel the eyes again. As strong as they had been with the sun setting his first time here.

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

The invisible watchers filled every window, every opening, thousands of them, waiting, anticipating.

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

So yes, Shadar Logoth was destroyed, yet it can be clearly noted that the evil was somehow growing stronger.

 

The Unseen Eyes of Padan Fain

 

The next interesting point is that these Watchers aren't just in Shadar Logoth. Fain seems to carry the same sense with him. In tGH Rand experiences the sensation of Unseen Watchers.

 

In the woodyard, the presence returned, the sense of someone there. The feel of eyes peering at him around tall piles of split firewood under the long sheds, darting glances over the stacks of seasoned planks and timbers waiting on the other side of the yard for the carpenter's shop, now closed up tight. He refused to look around, refused to think of how one set of eyes could move from place to place so fast, could cross the open yard from the firewood shed to the lumbershed without even a flicker of movement that he could see. He was sure it was one set of eyes. Imagination. Or maybe I'm going crazy already. He shivered. Not yet. Light, please not yet. Stiff-backed, he stalked across the woodyard, and the unseen watcher followed.

 

Down deep corridors lit only by a few rush torches, in storerooms filled with sacks of dried peas or beans, crowded with slatted racks heaped with wrinkled turnips and beets, or stacked with barrels of wine and casks of salted beef and kegs of ale, the eyes were always there, sometimes following him, sometimes waiting when he entered. He never heard a footstep but his own, never heard a door creak except when he opened and closed it, but the eyes were there. Light, I am going crazy.

 

[tGH; 2, The Flame of Tar Valon]

 

Now many assume this to be the Grey Man that later attempts to kill Rand during the Leavetaking. However, Liandrin also experiences the Eyes. Consider.

 

Pulling the door shut behind her, Liandrin suddenly felt a prickling across her skin. Breath catching, she whirled about, looking up and down the dimly lit hall. Empty. It was full night beyond the arrowslits. The hall was empty, yet she was sure there had been eyes on her. The vacant corridor, shadowy between the lamps on the walls, mocked her. She shrugged uneasily, then started down the hall determinedly. Fancies take me. Nothing more.

 

[tGH; 5, The Shadow in Shienar]

 

Why would the Grey Man watch Liandrin--more to the point on the same page we switch to Fain's POV.

 

As a lamp came into the cell chamber, Fain raised his head, grinning at something, unseen yet felt, beyond the dungeon's stone ceiling. "It isn't over yet," he whispered. "The battle's never over."

 

[tGH; 5, The Shadow in Shienar]

 

 

Furthermore in chapter 3 Fain keeps looking towards where the woman's apartments are, where Liandrin is.

 

He let his arm fall, and his eyes rose to stare intently at an angle up into the darkness. A crooked grin twisting his mouth, he chuckled deep in his throat as if whatever he saw was amusing. "Mordeth knows more than all of you. Mordeth knows."

 

Egwene backed away from the cell until she reached Rand, and only the edge of the light touched the bars of Fain's cell. Darkness hid the peddler, but they could still hear his chuckles. Even unable to see him, Rand was sure Fain was still peering off at nothing. With a shiver, he pried his fingers off his sword hilt. "Light!" he said hoarsely. "This is what you call being like he used to be?"

 

"Sometimes he's better, and sometimes worse." Egwene's voice was unsteady. "This is worse-much worse than usual."

 

"What is he seeing, I wonder. He's mad, staring at a stone ceiling in the dark." If the stone weren't there, he'd he looking straight at the women's apartments. Where Moiraine is, and the Amyrlin Seat. He shivered again. "He's mad."

 

[tGH; 3, Friends and Enemies]

 

Of course this raises the question of why would he be looking at Liandrin. LoC gives us something of an answer.

 

It was the most remarkable thing about Darkfriends. There should be nothing to single out a Darkfriend from anyone else, but of late he found he could tell one at a glance, even someone who had only thought of swearing to the Shadow, as if they had a sooty mark on their foreheads.

 

[LoC; 28, Letters]

 

Obviously he has only just gained mastery of this skill, but much like the flies situation in tGH was an early manifestation of his illusion skills, this awareness of Liandrin (and likely Alviarin) was an early manifestation of his awareness of Darkfriends. At least, that is what I suggest.

 

What Is The Relevence? These Things Occur Before Book Four, So They Ain't The BUT

 

Shadar Logoth and Fain are both results of the touch of the same evil thing, as shown by Brandon's comments. Both of these evils manifest with the feel of unseen eyes, unseen watchers. They themselves cannot be the BUT, but what I am suggesting is that the source of their evil may be.

 

Consider, Fain and Shadar Logoth have a linked source, but TAR has no links to either. So, if neither Shadar Logoth or Fain are the source of the TAR eyes--what if the TAR eyes are the source of Shadar Logoth and Fain?

 

The final thing I would address is that many have asked why the Eyes haven't done anything till now--what indication we have that that is to change. Little, in truth, but I do have this one quote which I think frames the response to such a question nicely.

 

"Whatever watches us is waiting for nightfall, I think," Sulin said. "I have looked into windows where something was looking back at me, but there was nothing there. Dancing the spears with something we cannot see will not be easy."

 

[LoC; 21, To Shadar Logoth]

 

Whatever watches waits till nightfall. The Shadow darkens the world, the next book is to be called the Towers of Midnight. The time the watchers wait for, perhaps?

 

[Rasko]

Are you saying then that the unseen eyes are the source of the evil that Mordeth discovered?

[Luckers]

I'm saying they are the evil Mordeth discovered. The evil that tainted him, and the source of Shadar Logoth.

[MikeRiley]

Taken into context, I think the unseen eyes you refer to at Fal Dara would more closer fit Lanfear's introduction to the series. Rand hears a woman's laughter a few times when he's trying to escape the watcher, and we know Lanfear has been following him around. It's also easy to believe she was around Liandrin at the same time. The Black Ajah would be something of at least passing interest to her, especially since Lanfear was working with Ishamael, who had the Black Ajah involved in his plans.

[Luckers]

The connections between Liandrin, the Eyes and Fain are pretty strong. And there is never any indication of people feeling Lanfear's gaze in that manner, not even when she is hiding as Keille.

[FarShainMael]

I'm not convinced that the UE of TAR are evil. Yes, they make people 'uneasy', but that doesn't mean they're evil necessarily. Though the parallel with the UE of SL is certainly interesting.

 

I lean toward the view that the UE of TAR are the Heroes. Perhaps like Birgitte, they have taken an interest in events in the living world, particularly since Mat sounded the Horn, and are watching to see what develops. The Precepts forbid them to do more than watch atm.

 

[MikeRiley]

The feeling is just that of somebody watching them. It's natural and something we notice in the real world as well. I'm not suggesting that Lanfear was hiding as somebody they could see - Nobody would "feel" Keille watching them because they would know she is when they looked. The feeling in Fal Dara is only made notable because when Rand and Liandrin look there is nobody there. Lanfear was not visible. I always took it as just a mystical introduction to the forsaken with the greatest reputation. We see her again during the chase for the Horn, twice, and then again as Selene, and we know she was present in Fal Dara due to Fain's escape and the dark prophecy on the dungeon wall.

[Luckers]

I lean toward the view that the UE of TAR are the Heroes. Perhaps like Birgitte, they have taken an interest in events in the living world, particularly since Mat sounded the Horn, and are watching to see what develops. The Precepts forbid them to do more than watch atm.

 

Except Nynaeve infers that she asked Birgitte about them, and she has no knowledge of what they are (and she would be aware of the Heroes).

 

The emptiness of the vast chamber oppressed her, all those great polished columns and that sense of being watched from the dimness between. If there really was anybody there, Birgitte would have known.

 

Of course its possible that Nynaeve presumed Birgitte would have spoken up, but I dunno...

 

Additionally, though, there's the simple fact that there is a sinister feel to these eyes, and it just doesn't feel like it matches with what the Heroes are capable of--making themselves completely unknown--Birgitte stops Hopper from having even a hint of her presence, and when Gaidal is around he is either known to be, or not--both states are referenced with no mention of the feeling of unseen eyes.

 

 

[FarShainMael]

Mmm.

 

It would have been interesting for Nyn to ask Birgitte about that sometime, but it could be a touchy subject!

 

sinister feel.. certainly the idea that someone is watching you from the darkness and you don't know who or why is enough to give anyone the shivers.. but watch is all they've done, and they can't be waiting for nightfall because AIUI all our girls' visits have taken place during the night. If they're waiting it's for something else.

 

An aside.. I'm re-reading LoC and I've just reached the bit where the SAS meet with Egwene in TAR to summon her to Sal to be raised Amyrlin. They show here where to go with a map. Rand is also there, in the shadows, watching, and sees the map and discovers where Sal and Elayne are. UE are not mentioned. Odd!

 

[Ishmayl]

I like this theory.  It's definitely one of my favorites for the BUT.  I think it could even possibly have some links to the evil of entering dreamland in the flesh (instead of just int he dream).  Fun theory, thanks for posting.

[Owayn The Traveller]

Quick question. Is the black wind of the ways related to fains and shadar logoths evil? Or is independant?

[Luckers]

Independent, though I have some thoughts on this that I'll be posting down the line.

[Durinax]

I thought it was related to the taint of saidin, a physical manefestation of the madness that takes men

[Owayn The Traveller]

Darn naggit! I thought I was on to something there.

If there is a single power or enity behind the unseen eyes in T'A'R and the evil that infested mordeth and eventually arhidol surely the daark one would have some knowledge of it and we might of heard it through his choosen.

 

We haven't seen any connection between Fain and T'A'R either. And if the unseen eyes are something to do with Fain/Arindol surely we would of seen something linking the two by now.

 

Could the unseen eyes be the dream representation of that madshar/cloud thing that killed Sammy? Or could it of seapped into T'a'r?

 

I thought it was related to the taint of saidin, a physical manefestation of the madness that takes men

 

So it would be the Dark Ones touch then. Not that I'm doubting you or anything but wouldn't trollocs be okay if it was a phyiscal manefestation of the madness caused by the Dark One own essence?

[Durinax]

Quote from: Durinax on Today at 01:59:52 PM

I thought it was related to the taint of saidin, a physical manefestation of the madness that takes men

 

 

So it would be the Dark Ones touch then. Not that I'm doubting you or anything but wouldn't trollocs be okay if it was a phyiscal manefestation of the madness caused by the Dark One own essence?

the madness had the men killing anything and everything. even tearing up the land, plus we have seen a tiny bit of shadowspawn slaughtering each other before in the blight, especially with what we heard of worms in eotw. And who knows maybe the dark ones taint actually reacted like a chemical with saidin making something different

[Owayn The Traveller]

Quote from: Durinax on Today at 01:59:52 PM

I thought it was related to the taint of saidin, a physical manefestation of the madness that takes men

 

 

So it would be the Dark Ones touch then. Not that I'm doubting you or anything but wouldn't trollocs be okay if it was a phyiscal manefestation of the madness caused by the Dark One own essence?

the madness had the men killing anything and everything. even tearing up the land, plus we have seen a tiny bit of shadowspawn slaughtering each other before in the blight, especially with what we heard of worms in eotw. And who knows maybe the dark ones taint actually reacted like a chemical with saidin making something different

 

Yes but those Shadowspawn were created by Aginor and had many generations to become less tame. What you say about the dark ones taint and saidin creating something new is a good idea though.

 

So it hasn't ever been set in stone what the wind is? Also what is it called again?

[Sid]

Private Eyes *clap*

are watching you *clap**clap*

 

I just got that song stuck in my head again :(

[Charlz Fel]

As far as the Shadar Logoth eyes are concerned, I think there are several things we should consider.

 

1. Moiraine knew wards to keep them away.  This was back in Eye of the World, before she became "more dangerous."  So it seems likely that the Aes Sedai, or at least some Aes Sedai, have some knowledge of them.  It is even possible that one or more of the "wondergirls" have this knowledge; I don't think we've seen any Aes Sedai actually in Shadar Logoth since Moiraine in book one, and they would have little reason to consider it otherwise.

 

2. Liah.  We really don't know what happened to her, but it seems likely that she was somehow snatched and held against her will (she knew better than to go wandering off).  When she saw Rand several weeks later, she ran from him once she recognized him; she had also stopped veiling her face to kill.

 

3. The following lines, from near the beginning of Rand's battle with Sammael in Shadar Logoth:

Down the street, beyond a spired monument miraculously standing straight, something moved, a shadowed shape darting across the way in the darkness.  Rand almost channeled, but he could not believe Sammael would go scuddling that way.  When he first stepped into the city, when Sammael tried to destroy everything around his gateway, he had heard terrible screams.  They had barely registered, then.  Nothing lived in Shadar Logoth, not even rats.

Rand goes on to deduce that Sammael had brought henchmen.  But we know that Liah managed to survive for weeks, so Rand's statement that "nothing lived in Shadar Logoth" is likely wrong.  And any henchmen that Sammael brought would likely be terrified, and probably not stick to the shadows.

 

4. Consider the demise of the Trolloc army:

Late in the Trolloc Wars, an army camped within these ruins--Trollocs, Darkfriends, Myrddraal, Dreadlords, thousands in all.  When they did not come out, scouts were sent inside the walls.  The scouts found weapons, bits of armor, and blood spattered everywhere.  And messages scratched on walls in the Trolloc tongue, calling on the Dark One to aid them in their last hour.  Men who came later found no trace of the blood or the messages.  They had been scoured away.

The signs left here--blood spattered everywhere, scouring blood and messages away--do not seem typical of Madashar, or any other incorporeal agent.

 

5. Consider the following description of a creature from the Wheel of Time video game:

Minions

These are what is left of the long dead population that once occupied the city. Attacking from the shadows, these creatures have a strong dislike for light. They prefer to grab victims from dark corners with their very long arms and drag them into dark corners to devour them.

While the game is certainly not canonical, RJ was consulted in its development, so I think we have to consider that there may be some truth to this.

 

Based on all of these considerations, I am inclined to say that the "Unseen Eyes" of Shadar Logoth are some sort of corporeal agents that are very good at hiding, rather than some mysterious power.  They might be descendants of residents of Aridhol, together with any others such as Liah whom they managed to trap; or they might be something else entirely.

 

One final piece of evidence here.  From Path of Daggers, Chapter One:

Skin prickled between Aviendha's shoulder blades.... A sense of being watched that she had last felt while still wed to the spear.  Imagination, she told herself.  Imagination and knowing there are enemies about I cannot face!  Not so long ago that crawling sensation had meant someone might be intending to kill her.

In the WoT world, a sense of being watched can happen any time someone is watching you, probably unseen and with malicious intent.  Although in this case the watcher seems to be Moridin, Aviendha infers that she has had the same feeling from enemy Aiel.  There is no automatic connection with any other instance of feeling unseen eyes, and no necessity for any supernatural involvement.

[Etzel]

I think, if the unseen eyes are evil and dangerous, it makes sense to link them to the strange incident Perrin experienced in TDR, ch.9. Apparently a Sharan noble is killed there in TAR by a shadowy creature, described as "strips of shadow" and a "black strip":

 

'Other hallways crossed the one he ran along, at odd angles, sometimes descending, sometimes climbing. None looked any different from the passage he was in, though. Damp stone walls unbroken by doors, and strips of darkness. As he came on one of those crossing halls, he skidded to a halt. A man stood there, blinking at him uncertainly, in strangely cut coat and breeches, the coat flaring over his hips as the bottoms of the breeches flared over his boots. Both were bright yellow, and his boots were only a little paler. “This is more than I can stand,” the man said, to himself, not Perrin. He had an odd accent, quick and sharp. “Not only do I dream of peasants, now, but foreign peasants, from those clothes. Begone from my dreams, fellow!” “Who are you?” Perrin asked. The man’s eyebrows rose as if he were offended. The strips of shadow around them writhed. One detached from the ceiling at one end and drifted down to touch the strange man’s head. It appeared to tangle in his hair. The man’s eyes widened, and everything seemed to happen at once. The shadow jerked back to the ceiling, ten feet overhead, trailing something pale. Wet drops splattered Perrin’s face. A bone-rattling shriek shattered the air. Frozen, Perrin stared at the bloody shape wearing the man’s clothes, screaming and thrashing on the floor. Unbidden, his eyes rose to the pale thing like an empty sack that dangled from the ceiling. Part of it was already absorbed by the black strip, but he had no trouble recognizing a human skin, apparently whole and unbroken. The shadows around him danced in agitation, and Perrin ran, pursued by dying screams. Ripples ran along the shadow strips, pacing him.'

 

Hopper seems to know more about it.

 

Of course, it might just be a nightmare, on the other hand, it's IMO definitely not impossible that there are some intelligent creatures (or at least one creature, the "unseen foe") hidden in the shadows of TAR. If they are such hidden, it also makes sense that these creatures spy with "unseen eyes" on other people. I think in the past it was suggested that this might have been Finn, but RJ said that TAR isn't connected to their realm, IIRC. Would be interesting to see, if in all instances, where unseen eyes or watchers were mentioned, shadows are around.

 

In any case, that "Shadows" are mentioned in this context could also provide the link to Shadar Logoth, "where the Shadow waits" . Maybe Mordeth somehow found the origin of those creatures lurking in the shadows of TAR and used it for his own plans.

[Luckers]

I'd forgotten about the 'Sharan'. Good connection Etzel.

 

Hmmm, I recall discussion about him a long time ago with another connection made... hmmm...

 

*wanders off mumbling to himself*

[Etzel]

I'd forgotten about the 'Sharan'. Good connection Etzel.

 

Hmmm, I recall discussion about him a long time ago with another connection made... hmmm...

 

*wanders off mumbling to himself*

 

Of course the problem is that if the incident with the shadow strips in TDR is directly linked to the unseen eyes, it's rather unlikely that the unseen eyes/watchers are the BUT, since BS said it starts in TSR. Ah, well, we'll see.. ;)

[Luckers]

I remember what it was connected too. It was the theory about the Ways being breached in TAR, and Machin Shin escaping. Hmm. I might post more on this soon.

 

And it may be the notes didn't explain that shadow.

[bowlwoman]

What about the strips of shadow being connected to the Finns?  It had been a long time since humans had visited their dimension, so maybe they skinned the Sharan because they desperately needed new clothes. Could the Finns be connected to the unseen eyes?

 

This quote about Perrin and the Sharan in TDR could provide some connection between the Finns and TAR, and then Lucker's theory of connecting the unseen eyes of TAR to those of SL could connect the Finns to SL (and subsequently Mordeth/Fain). If A=B and B=C, then A=C. 

 

 

[mossman87]

What about the strips of shadow being connected to the Finns?  It had been a long time since humans had visited their dimension, so maybe they skinned the Sharan because they desperately needed new clothes. Could the Finns be connected to the unseen eyes?

 

This quote about Perrin and the Sharan in TDR could provide some connection between the Finns and TAR, and then Lucker's theory of connecting the unseen eyes of TAR to those of SL could connect the Finns to SL (and subsequently Mordeth/Fain). If A=B and B=C, then A=C. 

 

 

 

I would say no, but he could have just been misleading us:

 

http://theoryland.yuku.com/topic/9921

 

WinespringBrother: Does the physical location of the world of 'Finns have anything to do with the bells ringing when the ta'veren were in together?

Jordan: No.

WinespringBrother: Have the 'Finns existed as long as the Wheel?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Do they have souls?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Are the 'Finns from human stock?

Jordan: No.

WinespringBrother: Did they originate in their current location?

Jordan: Yes.

WinespringBrother: Are they related to Tel'aran'rhiod or do they control Tel'aran'rhiod?

Jordan: No.

 

Tamyrlin: The 'Finns reside in a Parallel World, is that correct?

Jordan: Yes.

Tamyrlin: Okay, so are Parallel Worlds and Mirror Worlds the same thing?

Jordan: No, they are different.

Tamyrlin: Okay, well then do Parallel Worlds have their own reflections?

Jordan: Possibly.

Tamyrlin: Did Lanfear get the opportunity to ask the 'Finns, to make a wish, after going through the doorway with Moiraine?

Jordan: Read and find out.

Tamyrlin: Okay, well, then did Moiraine get the opportunity to make a wish?

Jordan: Read and find out.

[Trumpeter]

The "Sinister Unseen Eyes"

    Now up to this point we know that some Heroes of the Horn watch events that take place in Tel'aran'rhiod. The majority of them watch and take no action. As these people are Heroes their eyes would not feel evil or sinister. So I'm proposing that the Sinister Eyes are souls that have sworn to the Dark One waiting to be reborn. These people who have given their souls would not be let go, except for balefire. Therefore the most logical place for these souls to go would be Tel'aran'rhiod.

 

  As for the unseen eyes of Shadar Logoth, as stated in one of the books, can't remember which, it says that one of the evils of Shadar Logoth was paranoia. The unseen eyes there could just be that evil manifesting itself while others are represented in Mashadar.