Question About The 'Reality' of LTT in Rand's Head in Relation To Falme/Bk 2

[mossman87]

It makes me wonder how RJ would've written it.  Obviously this was meant to happen, but BS has a tendency to write in a much more straighforward, less metaphoric way.  I wonder how it would've turned out with RJ behind the wheel (no pun intended).

 

I liked it, but also felt is a bit of a cop-out.  Still, what better reasons to save the world than love and redemption?

 

How do we even know RJ didn't write it? I believe Harriet said most people were getting their guesses wrong on which parts who wrote.

 

Either way, while it is a little "out of left field" if you will, it does make a certain amount of sense. I'm not going to argue that it isn't corny as heck, but it's not complete bs at least.  Consider that "LTT" as we know him is essentially Rand's way of dealing with his memories of LTT's life and that that is the reason the LTT in Rand's head is mad, it makes sense that Rand would also have access to the memories of love and LTT's sane moments.  Why, then, could "LTT" not save Rand, if he is a mechanism to help preserve Rand's sanity?  Maybe LTT had this same epiphany in his life, and the answer was there all along?  In his moment of need he reaches out for the answer, any answer, and finds he had been hiding it from himself all along.  I don't think that's too random, really.

 

Hmm, I wonder.. In those last few chapters, the distinction between the two voices is blurring. At one point we have Rand saying 'why have we come here' and Rand answering 'because this is where we died'. Were the two personalities meeting, swapping, changing places? At the end there, was it LTT who was preparing to use the CK to destroy everything, and Rand, the saner of the two, whose 'veins of gold' were still shining in him, the one giving the answer?

 

 

Go without sleep for about 4 days, you'll see it's *very* easy to talk to yourself and become crazy.  There's a very fine line between what makes us crazy and 'normal', much finer than people think.  He's talking to himself like that because he's crazy.

[OptimusPrime]

Mat's possession of memories is not due to his own memories by way of reincarnation. Several times he remembers being on both sides of the same battle (specifically the final battle of Manetherin et al). The memories of Rand/LTT are direct and attributable to his immediately previous incarnation. He does not seem to remember any lives before LTT which is curious.

 

I have a theory on this, that being that Rand has access to the memories because he Senior Hero of the Horn. I think it is the fact that Rand immediately attributes the memories to madness is because he began to act on the instincts of those foreign memories. When the split within Rands mind occured, I think "LTT" was created as a buffer against those foreign memories. I reckon they are supposed to be a resource for the Champion of the Light. Taverensm and channeling were the well known parts of being the Dragon Reborn; the memories werent mentioned by Moiraine or anyone, so he dealt with them by hmself, attributing it to madness in an attempt to make it something understandable. He convinces himself LTT is aware, that the memories come from an external consciousness, then reinteratew, stops hiding from himself. Cue a clearer mind with access to even more memories

[morkhon]

Go without sleep for about 4 days, you'll see it's *very* easy to talk to yourself and become crazy.  There's a very fine line between what makes us crazy and 'normal', much finer than people think.  He's talking to himself like that because he's crazy.

How many of us have lived past lives? Let's not turn this into a discussion on the possibilities of real reincarnation, but Rand IS LTT Reborn. They share the same soul. He's not crazy. He's hearing his own self from a previous life.

[mossman87]

Go without sleep for about 4 days, you'll see it's *very* easy to talk to yourself and become crazy.  There's a very fine line between what makes us crazy and 'normal', much finer than people think.  He's talking to himself like that because he's crazy.

How many of us have lived past lives? Let's not turn this into a discussion on the possibilities of real reincarnation, but Rand IS LTT Reborn. They share the same soul. He's not crazy. He's hearing his own self from a previous life.

 

Nah, he has the memories, but he's too insane to distinguish if they're memories or a real person.  I think a lot of us on here argue over definitions even though we feel the same way.

[morkhon]

Nah, he has the memories, but he's too insane to distinguish if they're memories or a real person.  I think a lot of us on here argue over definitions even though we feel the same way.

I think you and I have  more than an argument over definitions. I don't think Rand was ever insane. I have a theory the Healing Ishamael gave him (in his past life) to take away the insanity gave the next incarnation (Rand) protection from said madness. In a rather roundabout way: the memories and experieinces of his past life literally taking the place of the insanity so his personality could remain intact.

 

I would definitaly say 'the voice' was a real person: it was his former self. I continue to say what are we besides a collection of memories, experiences, and past behavior? Those things dictate personality and future behavior. So if he has access to such memories, experiences, and past actions from a previous life that shared the same soul, and 'the voice' is a result of that...that's as real as any of us are.

[mossman87]

Nah, he has the memories, but he's too insane to distinguish if they're memories or a real person.  I think a lot of us on here argue over definitions even though we feel the same way.

I think you and I have  more than an argument over definitions. I don't think Rand was ever insane. I have a theory the Healing Ishamael gave him (in his past life) to take away the insanity gave the next incarnation (Rand) protection from said madness. In a rather roundabout way: the memories and experieinces of his past life literally taking the place of the insanity so his personality could remain intact.

 

I would definitaly say 'the voice' was a real person: it was his former self. I continue to say what are we besides a collection of memories, experiences, and past behavior? Those things dictate personality and future behavior. So if he has access to such memories, experiences, and past actions from a previous life that shared the same soul, and 'the voice' is a result of that...that's as real as any of us are.

 

He is definitely insane, BS has admitted part of the voice is from Rand's insanity caused by the taint.

 

Edit:

 

Question: Was the taint influential in the creation/development/existence of the voice of Lews Therin in Rand's head?

Brandon answered that the taint was influential, but not the only factor. He referenced Semirhage, that of course we can't believe the Forsaken always, but yes, that the taint was an influence in the the voice. That we have to accept that in fact, in a way, Rand is going insane (as in as the books progress).

 

Lews Therin Telamon's suicide was emphatically not balefire, but an overload of the Power.

 

 

He raised the point that Rand's creeping insanity may manifest in much more subtle ways than the people of Randland expect, which leads one to wonder about Rand's increasing withdrawal and possible megalomania.

 

He's insane, he's nuts, and insane people with voices in their head try everything in their power to understand why they have voices in their head before admitting that they are, in fact, insane.

[OneDragon]

He's insane, he's nuts, and insane people with voices in their head try everything in their power to understand why they have voices in their head before admitting that they are, in fact, insane.

 

Well, he doesn't hear voices anymore and he sertainly never was nuts ( except when very angry )

The reason why he heard voices was partially the taint that drove him mad. Ever considered that he was simply talking to himself? (He was standing on "his own grave" (LTT's) quite useful when you are going to make decisions, carrying the world on your shoulders...

[Dreamwalker]

He's insane, he's nuts, and insane people with voices in their head try everything in their power to understand why they have voices in their head before admitting that they are, in fact, insane.

 

Well, he doesn't hear voices anymore and he sertainly never was nuts ( except when very angry )

The reason why he heard voices was partially the taint that drove him mad. Ever considered that he was simply talking to himself? (He was standing on "his own grave" (LTT's) quite useful when you are going to make decisions, carrying the world on your shoulders...

 

Rand definitely was nuts, we even have a Sanderson quote saying that.

 

From the Q&A Compilation Luckers posted: http://forums.dragonmount.com/index.php/topic,50707.0.html

13. Question: Was the taint influential in the creation/development/existence of the voice of Lews Therin in Rand's head?

 

13. Answer: Brandon answered that the taint was influential, but not the only factor. He referenced Semirhage, that of course we can't believe the Forsaken always, but yes, that the taint was an influence in the the voice. That we have to accept that in fact, in a way, Rand is going insane (as in as the books progress).