The Big (Currently) Unoticed Thing In Books 4-6 (Mistborn Spoilers)

[Dreamwalker]

The ravens was my idea.  Luckers' comment is wrong though:

 

Only referenced once in books 4-6 (in the dream)' date=' however Tuon jokes often on making him property.  The problem is this doesn’t fit the Big Thing, which is supposed to fade a bit more into the background after book 6. This becomes heightened with Tuon’s joking.[/quote']

It's referenced in book 4 when the raven tattoos are introduced, and again in 6 when Egwene has the dream about Mat.  Also, Brandon didn't say anything about it 'fading into the background'.  He just said that it doesn't become any more relevant later in the series, that we should have picked up on it when it first showed up.

 

The deathwatch guards having ravens are not references to Mat having them or becoming property. For that matter we don't even know that the Raven's in Egwene's dreams represent tattoo's. Still I'll clarify the significance of what a raven tattoo is.

Well, we wouldn't know how to interpret Egwene's dream if not for the reference to the tattoos in book 4, so it's quite relevant.  The two clues are dependent on each other, and the tattoos themselves are the 'detail'.

He's the prince of the ravens. I thought that it made it all clear. (Well, besides the fact that we have no clue that Prince of the Ravens actually means, that is).

 

Mat became Prince of the Ravens when he married Tuon, the Daughter of the Nine Moons.  Tuon is now "dead", and Mat is married to Fortuona, the Empress (or just the Nine Moons).  I would imagine Mat's title has changed as well.  King of the Ravens, Star Fox (ha), etc.....

Good point, it very well might be the case. Star Fox...? I LIKE IT!

Let's please make this Mat's nickname. ;D Oh, and DO A BARREL ROLL!

[Knobs Mahoney]

Tap "Z" or "R" twice.

[eqshadimar]

I am re-reading the series right now and in TFoH there are several times throughout the book that Rand mentions that under this symbol (the Aes Sedai symbol) I will conquer.  It really stood out in my mind when he killed the Darkhounds the first time in the Maidens Roof (Hold) and the blood of the slain Darkhounds avoided the Aes Sedai symbol while they were reassembling themselves but before he balefired them.

 

I tired searching this thread about this but I didn't see anything.  So either there could be something important about the Aes Sedai symbol in general or the specific one in that building in Rhuidean.  What it could be I have no idea but considering Rand's ta'veren nature in picking that building for his headquaters and the behavior of the Darkhound blood makes me go hummmmm.  I wonder if that is the seventh seal but I think all seven seals have been found either broken or intact at this point.

 

Laters,

Jeff

[Sentinel78]

I am re-reading the series right now and in TFoH there are several times throughout the book that Rand mentions that under this symbol (the Aes Sedai symbol) I will conquer.  It really stood out in my mind when he killed the Darkhounds the first time in the Maidens Roof (Hold) and the blood of the slain Darkhounds avoided the Aes Sedai symbol while they were reassembling themselves but before he balefired them.

 

I tired searching this thread about this but I didn't see anything.  So either there could be something important about the Aes Sedai symbol in general or the specific one in that building in Rhuidean.  What it could be I have no idea but considering Rand's ta'veren nature in picking that building for his headquaters and the behavior of the Darkhound blood makes me go hummmmm.  I wonder if that is the seventh seal but I think all seven seals have been found either broken or intact at this point.

 

Laters,

Jeff

 

Jeff, that was brought up too early in the series, starting in Book 2. This is from Chpt 28 of Book 2:

 

"A man?" Verin's voice was soft, but her eyes were as sharp as daggers. "What are these signs?"

 

Urien shook his head. "It is said we will know them when we hear of them, as we will know him when we see him, for he will be marked. He will come from the west, beyond the Spine of the World, but be of our blood. He will go to Rhuidean, and lead us out of the Three-fold Land." He took a spear in his right hand. Leather and metal creaked as soldiers reached for their swords, and Perrin realized he had taken hold of his axe again, but Verin waved them all to stillness with an irritated look. In the dirt Urien scraped a circle with his spearpoint, then drew across it a sinuous line. "It is said that under this sign, he will conquer."

 

Ingtar frowned at the symbol, no recognition on his face, but Mat muttered something coarsely under his breath, and Perrin felt his mouth go dry. The ancient symbol of the Aes Sedai.

 

Verin scraped the marking away with her foot. "I cannot tell you where he is, Urien," she said, "and I have heard of no signs or portents to guide you to him."

 

[OptimusPrime]

Rand first heard Lews Therin in Shadow Rising, book 4.

 

Then Rand and Lews Therin actually communicate in LoC, book 6, even though they are "one man and always have been," I think this shows that Rand shouldnt be hearing a voice at all even though the memories are there

 

Its relevent for Brandon to drop hints about the important missed thing for the current book, right? So I think it might have been Rands personality split, which was dealt with in the current book.

[Terez]

He said it will come into play in Towers of Midnight.  Also, since he's said that he will 'not ever' clear up the Lews Therin mystery, I doubt that's it. 

[OptimusPrime]

He said it will come into play in Towers of Midnight.  Also, since he's said that he will 'not ever' clear up the Lews Therin mystery, I doubt that's it. 

 

I wish I could find these comments BS said about this thing. I asked for it not long since but I couldnt find the actual interview.

[Terez]

They're all here, under 'miscellaneous'.

[OptimusPrime]

Brill! Thanks Terez

[Dida]

 

I have previously suggested that a 'binder weave' placed by Lanfear on Aviendha's silver necklace of Kandori snowflakes might be the little missing thing. 

 

Recently it has come to my attention that there is other odd possibility, the multiple wooden boxes of Firesticks which both Nynaeve and Elayne left behind hidden in secret within the Tinker Wagon they gave to Valan Luca in Samara. 

 

  Valan nor any of the Circus workers knew that Elayne, Nynaeve could channel Saidar (tFoH). 

   

  Aludra gave Nynaeve and Elayne many, many boxes of Firesticks during their time with Valan Luca's Circus.  However, Elayne did not ever want use those Firesticks but preferred to channel instead to fire the lamps, and Nynaeve was not comfortable using Aludra's Strikers/Firestriker but instead used steel and flint.  Meaning almost every wooden box of Strikers/Firestrikers went unused.   

 

 

  When Valan Luca and or Latelle finally looks behind that 'sack of beans', that person will find a very large stash of Firesticks.  Considering how low on food Mat's Band of Red Hand was in 'The Gathering Storm', it goes to reason that Valan Luca's is low on food.  Its logical to consider that these particular Firesticks have been hidden in Valan Luca's wagon for books and books.

 

 

  Curiously, Valan Luca's Tinker Wagon has about as many Firesticks hidden within itself, if not more Firesticks, as Aludra has in her own possession now (KoD, Ch.37). 

 

 

  Here are some quotes referring directly to these hidden Firesticks:

 

Source: The Fires of Heaven book, Chapter 33 “A Question of Crimson” – Nynaeve pov with Thom, Valan Luca at the Circus (before Birgitte arrives) Note #1 Thom’s skill throwing knives blind, same skill as Mat Cauthon shows in Rhuidean. Note #2 – Aludra gives Nynaeve Firesticks, and everyone else Firesticks — Luca, too?

 

“That one,” Aludra said, “she uses the hands and the feet with remarkable ability, no? Do not glare at me so, Nana,” she added, dusting her hands. “I am not your enemy. Here. You must try these new firesticks.”

 

Nynaeve took the wooden box from the dark-haired woman gingerly. It was a cube she could have held easily with one hand, but she used both. “I thought you called them strikers.”

 

“Maybe yes, maybe no. Firesticks, it says what they are much better than strikers, yes? I have smoothed the little holes that hold the sticks so they can no longer ignite on the wood. A good idea, no? And the heads, they are a new formulation. You will try them and tell me what you think?”

“Yes, of course. Thank you.”

 

Nynaeve hurried on before the woman could press another box on her. She held the thing as if it might explode, which she was not certain it would not. Aludra had everyone trying out her strikers, or firesticks, or whatever she would decide to call them next. They certainly would light a fire or a lamp. They could also burst into flame if the blue-gray heads rubbed against each other or anything else rough. For herself, she would stick with flint and steel, or a coal kept properly banked in a box of sand. Much safer.

 

Source: The Fires of Heaven book, Chapter 33 “A Question of Crimson” – Nynaeve pov

 

Carefully she put the box of firesticks into one of the cabinets, next to two more.

 

Source: The Fires of Heaven book, Chapter 34 “A Silver Arrow” – Nynaeve pov with Elayne.  Note #1, neither Nynaeve nor Elayne are using Aludra’s firesticks, Strikers to light anything up.

 

 

Of course,” Elayne murmured, with just the hint of a smile. And she put her plate atop Nynaeve’s before following her into the wagon. Nynaeve wanted to hug her. Until she said, “Really, you should not encourage him.” Lamps mounted in wall brackets sprang alight.

 

Nynaeve planted her fists on her hips. “Encourage him! The only way I could encourage him less would be to stab him!” Sniffing for emphasis, she frowned at the lamps. “Next time, use one of Aludra’s firesticks. Strikers. You are going to forget one day and channel where you shouldn’t, and then where will we be? Running for our lives with a hundred Whitecloaks after us.”

 

 

Source: The Fires of Heaven book, Chapter 48 “Leavetakings” – Nynaeve pov with Elayne in the ‘tinker wagon’ for the last time.

 

 

Aludra came with wishes for a safe journey, wherever they were going, in her Taraboner accents. And with two more boxes of her firesticks. Nynaeve tucked them into her scrip with a sigh. She had made a point of leaving the others behind, and Elayne had pushed them to the back of the shelf, behind a sack of beans, when she thought Nynaeve was not looking.

 

 

  How might those hidden Firesticks in Valan Luca's Tinker Wagon by Nynaeve & Elayne next be used in the future?

 

  One possibility is Valan Luca will use them within the Tower of Ghenjei, during the attempt to save Moiraine, with Mat & Thom.

 

  Ironically, Nynaeve seemingly describes to Valan Luca what the Eelfinn can to do:

 

   

Source: The Fires of Heaven book, Chapter 47 “The Price of a Ship” – Nynaeve pov with Valan Luca, in Samara.

 

  My enemies, the ones you dismiss so easily, would make you take off your skin and dance in your bones, and you would be grateful if that was all they did.

 

    There is a theory that the Da'shain Aiel Luca, who was a trickster, was re-born as a showman Valan Luca.  A known master showman and trickster, as Valan Luca is, should be skilled with Fire and tricks involving Firesticks.

 

    In a nutshell, Valan Luca might use Aludra's improved formulation of Firesticks in the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

     

[bronnt]

I was looking at the Luc/Isam thread and wondering if he might qualify as the BUT.  Just to muck things up:

 

A.R. to Slayer in the Two Rivers, or him entering ToG.

 

That's out, but I don't know if that rules out the entirety of Luc/Isam as a possibility.  Probably.  After all, his first mention is actually in TGH, so it's too early.  (actually, Isam is even mentioned in EotW).  But there's definitely some interesting revelations about him from 4-6.

 

In book 4, we learn that Luc and Isam share a body.  Also, we learn that they both are collectively Slayer.  We learn that Rand's father was killed by Luc in book 4.  In fact, the first big thing Luc/Isam does is in tSR as well, when he kills Amico and Joiya.

 

In book 6, we learn that he's Rand's uncle, confirming an obscure mention about him from tSR.  We also learn in book 6 that "the outcome of TG depends upon him," so he was sent by Gitara to the Blight.  That itself is huge, and doesn't draw a lot of attention.

 

Probably doesn't qualify as the BUT, but it's certainly something that will have a huge impact from here out.

[mossman87]

 

    There is a theory that the Da'shain Aiel Luca, who was a trickster, was re-born as a showman Valan Luca.  A known master showman and trickster, as Valan Luca is, should be skilled with Fire and tricks involving Firesticks.

 

    In a nutshell, Valan Luca might use Aludra's improved formulation of Firesticks in the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

     

"There is a theory (made by Dida himself):"

 

In any case that wouldn't blow anyone away, so won't be it.

[bronnt]

 

    There is a theory that the Da'shain Aiel Luca, who was a trickster, was re-born as a showman Valan Luca.  A known master showman and trickster, as Valan Luca is, should be skilled with Fire and tricks involving Firesticks.

 

    In a nutshell, Valan Luca might use Aludra's improved formulation of Firesticks in the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

     

"There is a theory (made by Dida himself):"

 

In any case that wouldn't blow anyone away, so won't be it.

 

Is this like the theory (by Dida) that Luca will be the third person at ToG, despite the fact that it's supposed to be Noal?

[AceDCC]

I am new to the "Big Unnoticed Thing" discussion and see there has been LOTS of various things bandied about. I have just skimmed through most of it and have noticed something missing; there doesn't seem to be much (if anything) about the "Fat Man Angreal" that Rand lost in his captivity, and noticed missing at Dumais Wells. I also noticed when Rand was attacked in Far Madding (in WH) the Ashamen were commenting that Moridin was more interested in collecting Rand's possessions than whether or not they killed him. Maybe this angreal is more than it seems?

 

Dave

[bronnt]

I am new to the "Big Unnoticed Thing" discussion and see there has been LOTS of various things bandied about. I have just skimmed through most of it and have noticed something missing; there doesn't seem to be much (if anything) about the "Fat Man Angreal" that Rand lost in his captivity, and noticed missing at Dumais Wells. I also noticed when Rand was attacked in Far Madding (in WH) the Ashamen were commenting that Moridin was more interested in collecting Rand's possessions than whether or not they killed him. Maybe this angreal is more than it seems?

 

Dave

 

It's been discussed.  There's a sticky thread at the top where all the main theories/suggestions have been compiled.  When Moridin was asking for his possessions, he was looking for the Choedan Kal access keys more than anything else because he knew that Rand was going to use them to cleanse the source.

 

The sticking point with the fat man angreal is that it doesn't carry the importance that Brandon Sanderson has suggested it would.  So one of the Asha'Man (presumably where it went) ends up with a little more strength-so what?  Especially at the time, we shouldn't have taken notice.  Taim has the fat man angreal-oh no! But Rand has the uber-weapon, the Choeden Kal.

[Terez]

Not any more, he doesn't.  But he's still got Callandor.

[bronnt]

Not any more, he doesn't.  But he's still got Callandor.

 

That's why I said "at the time."  Brandon has said it's something we should have noticed, but why would anyone have cared about the fat man angreal way back then, when both CK access keys were intact?  The marginal strength gained by the angreal was not worth sweating over very much because he had better weapons.

[Knobs Mahoney]

 

    There is a theory that the Da'shain Aiel Luca, who was a trickster, was re-born as a showman Valan Luca.  A known master showman and trickster, as Valan Luca is, should be skilled with Fire and tricks involving Firesticks.

 

    In a nutshell, Valan Luca might use Aludra's improved formulation of Firesticks in the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

     

"There is a theory (made by Dida himself):"

 

In any case that wouldn't blow anyone away, so won't be it.

 

Is this like the theory (by Dida) that Luca will be the third person at ToG, despite the fact that it's supposed to be Noal?

 

Anyone else think it's the dumbest idea in the world that someone would be reborn with their former name as their current last name? Aside from being astronomically improbable, it's just corny. Just downright corny.

 

Harder. And harder. To refrain. From ad hominem. Attacks.

[Terez]

Dida does make it difficult doesn't he?  I had to put him on ignore at Theoryland.  He's off his rocker, and worse is that he's one of those people that is just too crazy to realize that he is crazy.  But for all that, he's not a bad guy.  So I just ignore him.

[bronnt]

Anyone else think it's the dumbest idea in the world that someone would be reborn with their former name as their current last name? Aside from being astronomically improbable, it's just corny. Just downright corny.

 

Harder. And harder. To refrain. From ad hominem. Attacks.

 

I can just picture what it will be like even after AMoL is published.

 

"Theory:  Rand was the Dark One.

 

We see excerpts of Rand being able to affect the environment around him in a negative fashion (insert excerpt from tGS).  Moreover, we have quotes from RJ and Brandon telling us that he's connected to the land. (Quote posted).  How is he able to affect these things?  In fact, how was he able to channel the TS without the Dark One's permission?

 

Answer: Rand was the Dark One, and that's why the Last Battle was internal, not external."

 

....

[Knobs Mahoney]

Dida does make it difficult doesn't he?  I had to put him on ignore at Theoryland.  He's off his rocker, and worse is that he's one of those people that is just too crazy to realize that he is crazy.  But for all that, he's not a bad guy.  So I just ignore him.

 

If you ever get bored one day do a websearch on google with "Dida" and "Cyndane" as the parameters...we're nice to him compared to other forums...  :D

[Terez]

Dida does make it difficult doesn't he?  I had to put him on ignore at Theoryland.  He's off his rocker, and worse is that he's one of those people that is just too crazy to realize that he is crazy.  But for all that, he's not a bad guy.  So I just ignore him.

 

If you ever get bored one day do a websearch on google with "Dida" and "Cyndane" as the parameters...we're nice to him compared to other forums...  :D

What, like 13th Depository?  I don't really need to do a google search on that...so far as I'm aware, he mostly hangs out here, at Theoryland, and at 13thD.

[Luckers]

Let's get back on topic guys.

[Hadilmir]

I actually had a well explained reason for why Moridin would want the Fat Man Angreal, but then I read the first post of this thread that said it was not related to the FMA. Sorry, AceDCC, you're wrong.  :-\

[Dida]

 

    There is a theory that the Da'shain Aiel Luca, who was a trickster, was re-born as a showman Valan Luca.  A known master showman and trickster, as Valan Luca is, should be skilled with Fire and tricks involving Firesticks.

 

    In a nutshell, Valan Luca might use Aludra's improved formulation of Firesticks in the Tower of Ghenjei.

 

     

"There is a theory (made by Dida himself):"

 

In any case that wouldn't blow anyone away, so won't be it.

 

Is this like the theory (by Dida) that Luca will be the third person at ToG, despite the fact that it's supposed to be Noal?

 

Neither Brandon nor Robert Jordan ever confirmed that Noal Charin will BE the third person to go to ToG.  That is an assumption there, on your part.

 

If your actually did a Keyword search on the "Firesticks" on Dragonmount Forum, you would see that very few individuals have ever mention them as a topic.  Nor has anyone ever mentioned this stash of hidden Firesticks, placed by Elayne and Nynaeve in what is now Valan Luca's Tinker Wagon.  Those are facts, Bronnt.  Deal with it. ;)

 

Aludra's Firesticks hidden within Valan Luca's Tinker Wagon, have not been previously discussed by anyone one else at Dragonmount.  :P