Dragonsworn.

[Roxinos]

One.

 

I don't fall into the same hole of semantics that I created because I allow room for someone to disprove what I say and for the word "Dragonsworn" to encompass anyone who is sworn to the Dragon. I've repeated that little tidbit many times. That it could be used to call anyone who is sworn to the Dragon Reborn, Dragonsworn.

 

However, Mat is not sworn to the Dragon. He follows where the Dragon tells him to go because he knows it's necessary. And besides that, the only reason he went to Salidar in the first place is because he made a bloody promise (and the reason he made that promise was because he knew Rand was in love with Elayne).

 

Though I can't expect the Aes Sedai in Salidar to know that he made that promise (though Egwene suspects it and manipulates him accordingly), and they can't know the reason for such.

 

He does not fly Rand's banners all the time. He was flying them while heading to Salidar (at least I think he was, I'm still confused on that point) because Rand told him to. Because Rand said it would frighten the Aes Sedai.

 

Though the Aes Sedai in Salidar can't know that either.

 

The people in the Band that were originally in Rand's army are now in the Band. Simple as that. They follow Mat because they believe Mat to be some type of talisman. They believe that they can't lose while the follow him. And they're right for the most part. When they joined up with Mat, they did so forgoing all previous alliances to the Dragon Reborn. They don't follow Mat as a unit under the Dragon Reborn's command. They follow Matrim Cauthon.

 

Who ever said I needed to quote something? When I said that, I was referring to other people trying to get me to believe them. I don't just believe them. I need proof. The same does not apply to me for other people unless those quotes are requested.

 

I posted that quote because Pevin could not. Not to further my own point. I did it to further Pevin's point because he could not do it himself.

[Mardragon]

I think the point Egwene was making was that Mat and his band would be viewed as 'dragonsworn' by the Aes Sedai because they serve the Dragon Reborn.

 

Whether or not Mat should actually be considered 'Dragonsworn' isn't the point. She is simply referring to the Aes Sedai's view-point. Mat might not have taken an oath as such, but then the Aes Sedai don't know that (although Egwene herself might). They don't know that Mat's folk aren't the same as Masema's. And even if they do know, it is probably irrelevant to them. In their mind-set, Mat and the band serve the dragon reborn hence they are dragon-sworn.

 

They might be wrong on that account, but that isn't the point. The point is, this is their point of view.

 

(Whoops, I said 'point' way to much in this post didn't I....?)

[Roxinos]

The only thing that makes me disbelieve your point is that Egwene herself believed Mat to be Dragonsworn.

 

The Lord of Chaos, Chapter 39 "Possibilities", Page 713, Paperback

 

"She smiled at him calmly. 'Mat, not many here in Salidar think very well of Dragonsworn. Lord Bryne certainly doesn't, nor his soldiers. We have heard some very disturbing stories. And some sickening ones.'

 

((That says that she is linking the stories told about Dragonsworn and the way they behave to Mat, if not exactly that Mat is the source of those rumors. But that he is part of the same group of people that do commit such atrocities.))

 

'Dragonsworn!' he yelped. 'What do they have to do with me? I'm no bloody Dragonsworn!'

 

'Of course you are, Mat.' She made it sound the most obvious thing in the world. Which it was, if you only thought. 'You go where Rand sends you. What else are you but Dragonsworn?'"

 

And that's what annoys me. Even after Mat denies his link to the title Dragonsworn and what they are attributed to, Egwene still goes on as if it were the simplest thing in the world to understand. And even Mat understands what would make her believe such. That doesn't me that he doesn't find it ludicrous.

 

I'm not denying that Mat could be given the title of Dragonsworn if you only used the term Dragonsworn at face value. But it has always been used to reference the lower sort of people and has always been linked to the crimes committed by Masema's rabble. And Egwene should be smart enough to know that Mat is not Dragonsworn. She should also be smart enough to not call Mat such and not call the Band such. But apparently, she sticks to the face value belief and the atrocities that are linked to the name and apply it to Mat.

 

It bothers me.

 

Oh, and I think I'm getting the hang of this searching for quotes thing. After all, I had just read past that part the other day.

[Old Skool]

And that's what annoys me. Even after Mat denies his link to the title Dragonsworn and what they are attributed to, Egwene still goes on as if it were the simplest thing in the world to understand. And even Mat understands what would make her believe such. That doesn't me that he doesn't find it ludicrous.

 

I think that is just RJ solidifying Egwene's character. As a reader she $&%^s me to no end with her stubborness and the way she treats Mat (especially when he saves her neck so many times.) But that is just her character.

 

I agree with you Roxinos, it annoys the hell outta me too.

 

I think that the term "dragonsworn" refers to (as many posts have said before) anyone that has pledged to do the dragons bidding. So this does not include Mat and Perrin, as they are not following Rands commands because he is the Dragon, but because they knoe the fate of the Light rests upon Rand's shoulders (and theirs, but I dont think they knoe that).

 

Im not sure if that makes much sense - simply, Mat and Perrin doing what Rand wishes for the Light and not because he is the dragon.

 

Also the term dragonsworn has gained negative connotations because of Masema's lot, and I do not believe it be a term fit for true followers of the dragon.