Circles

[Thanatos]

The following is a question I have always had on circles...

When Sareitha is asked by Renaile about why the Aes Sedai studied cirlces this was the response.

 

    "If you must know, it was the problem of men who can channel that drew them to it.  The Breaking of the World was a living memory to some, then.  I don't suppose even very many sisters remember--it hasn't been part of the required instruction since before the Trolloc Wars--but men can be brought into a circle, too, and as the circle doesn't break even if you go to sleep....Well, you can see the advantages.  That was an utter failure, unfortunately.  More to the point here, I say again that it is impossible to force a woman into a circle.  If you doubt, try it yourself.  You will see."

    Renaile nodded, accepting at last; there was very little else to do when an Aes Sedai made a simple statement of fact.  Yet Elayne wondered.  What was in the pages that had not survived?  She had noticed a slight change in Sareitha's inflection at one point.  She had questions.  For later, when there were fewer ears around.

 

Path of Daggers, pgs. 128-129

 

My questions are these.

 

1.  What was the disaster that happened to the Aes Sedai studying circles with the Men who could channel.

2.  What did Sareitha not tell the others about circles that has Elayne catching her voice change.

 

For the first question, I assume that a male channeller found some way out of the circle and caused some major damage.  But the second question is all speculation on my part at this point.  Any theories would be appreciated.

[fikkie77]

1 The disaster was probably the difference between what they hoped that would happen (safely using saidin without the man going mad) and what did happen (the men went mad and caused damage, injuries or even killed others).

2 She didn't mention what happened exactly? Have sisters gotten killed? We don't know

[Seaine Sedai]

I think it's also because in some instances of Circles a Man has to be controlling the flows.  I seem to remember a conversation between Sammael and Graendal where he suggests they link, and she says no.  He thinks to himself that he can't blame her because she'd have to let him control the flows and she isn't stupid.

 

And who knows?  maybe she wanted to leave out that Myrdraal can obviously be brought into circles as well, since you can force someone to being on the side of the Dark that way.

 

She might also be leaving out that a circle can only have so many women before a man HAS to join in the circle or they cannot add more women, but once you start adding men to circles you can keep adding for awhile.  there might have been a mention somewhere about what the maximum capacity circle is including men and women, but I don't remember right off hand.

 

This is really about all the knowledge that we have been given, as readers, about circles.  maybe there's more that was supposed to come to us later, but this is all I remember about it, and it's possible since AS don't actually link that often that even they don't know this.

 

THERE IS ALSO THE FACT that an A'dam, by its very nature, is a FORCED circle.  So, in essence, Sareitha lied.  Now, it's possible she doesn't know about A'dam specifically, or that she doesn't believe they actually exist, but we know from the way the A'dam works that it IS a forced circle.  The woman collared is the one linked, and the one with the bracelet/leash is the one controlling the flows.  I'm not sure why exactly that Elayne didn't think of this herself, since by this time she has studied ter'angreal and specifically A'dam, and she should know it works the same as linking.

[fikkie77]

They (Sareitha and Elayne) might not have thought as a'dams to be ter'angreals to make a forced circle.

[Tyrell]

She seems to skirt around the issue of whether or not you can force a man into a circle. She deliberately states that you can't force a woman into one, rather than 'anyone' or some more general statement.

 

I'd also agree that she failed to mention circle based limits, for ex. 13 women is the maximum before you must bring in a man to enlarge it, a man must lead in a circle of two, etc.

[Luckers]

THERE IS ALSO THE FACT that an A'dam, by its very nature, is a FORCED circle.  So, in essence, Sareitha lied.  Now, it's possible she doesn't know about A'dam specifically, or that she doesn't believe they actually exist, but we know from the way the A'dam works that it IS a forced circle.  The woman collared is the one linked, and the one with the bracelet/leash is the one controlling the flows.  I'm not sure why exactly that Elayne didn't think of this herself, since by this time she has studied ter'angreal and specifically A'dam, and she should know it works the same as linking.

 

Sareitha expressed the commonly assumed position of Aes Sedai. Forced links are impossible because no Aes Sedai knows how, therefore its not possible.

 

That's innacurate on two fronts, given the Black use forced links, and that forced links are possible in general, but Sareitha did not lie, she was simply wrong.