how much can you trust an Aes Sedai promise?

[DhaiMon]

I don't disagree with you.  What what The Tower Envoy did was despicable, just not in any way against any of the three oaths.  Did they skirt a few lines, you bet.  As far as it being a sham, I can't agree with that.  They never made it clear to Rand that they would not take 'no' for an answer.  He declined their invitation.  I wonder if they would have treated Rand the way they did if he had agreed to go with them under their proposed terms. 

 

As far as Alanna, I don't disagree.  I find it as despicable as the Tower Envoy's behavior; perhaps more so. 

 

The threats from Moraine and Lan were unsetteling indeed.  I did a great job of showing how high the stakes are. 

How they treated Rand again shows me how much truly is wrong with those "Oaths"...

Most of them, not all of them are or have been Black Ajah after all, were so convinced they had to do what they did that they never so much as thought to "ask him nicely"- or if they did try that tactic, likely their..."manners" towards Rand when they would have "escorted" him to the White Tower would not have been different at all.

 

Elaida is fanatic with the firm belief that the Dragon Reborn must_be_controlled by the White Tower. Controlled. Not talked to like any other conqueror(those can be squashed anyhow by women that command the Power that turns the Wheel, no?), but like a potentially dangerous beast. A belief this embassy seemed to have shared. The Black Ajah weaklings and psychos for different reasons, but generally they shared it. Even the girls and ladies too young to have the "mark in their face", if you know what I mean.

 

That's inhuman. It's impractical and fanatic. Simply inhuman, no matter what Rand is or did. The Sharans at least see the need of keeping male channeler stock to keep channelers in the world. The White Tower does and did not, out of sheer ignorance and manipulation from within.

Would Rand be a blind, genocidal maniac- which he is not, we know as much -would he have been that, even then they would have had no right to what they did there. Inhuman is what it was. And literally screams how decadent and wrong-headed the White Tower is at its core.

 

A core that was all too likely built up the way it was according to a certain someone's tune:

Ishamael. Who "founded" the Black Ajah. Who crushed the relative peace of the Compact of Ten Nations. Who turned Arthur Hawkwing's empire and descendents, and the Hawkwing himself completely wrong.

 

That's why the White Tower also inspires an awe that is close to fear, in my book. Because it was not meant to be the way it is. It was not meant to be an organization of channeling women that are bondaged to a device that was not meant as a batch of honor in the Age it was created. It certainly was not.

 

 

Fascinating study on how a good idea can be corrupted. Maybe Rigney just wanted to make a parody of the Roman Church here and do something more intelligent, clever and creative than a Mr Dan Brown did(I spit on that name! Shame on him! Shame!). Still, I'd like to think that Rigney did indeed put such a weight of thought in there. With him gone, blessed be his name, we can only interpret and go by the notes he might have left us.

 

This is all opinion, an "educated guess", if you will...Should you disagree, feel free to flak away.

 

PS: I have not read this so-called "Illuminati"-crap, should you wonder. Nor do I intend to. So don't try to "convert" me there. ;P

[ROB_88]

i'll go a little off topic now.

 

about the first oath "To SPEAK no word that is not true"

would it be possible for them to write a complete lie?

 

maybe someone could even write a lie on a letter and send it to herself just so she could say "i got a letter saying that the sky has turned purple" or whatever

[MikeRiley]

Whether the oaths allow them room to work around a promise doesn't really matter as far as trusting an Aes Sedai promise goes. There was that saying spoken so many times throughout the world in the books "the truth an Aes Sedai tells you is not always the truth you think it is." The idea that Aes Sedai are manipulators and serve their own ends which aren't always what they seem is so deeply ingrained into people that that alone is cause enough for mistrust. It doesn't help any that the mistrust is warranted. I believe in one of the later books this point was brought up as a suggestion that the three oaths do more harm than good to their reputation. Everybody knows an Aes Sedai can't lie, but everybody knows what the Aes Sedai says might not be what it sounds like.

 

In the books we get to see things from the Aes Sedai point of view and even among the main characters there is a blanket elitism that comes with being a part of the White Tower.

 

If an Aes Sedai told me the sky was blue I would wonder what she wanted out of giving me the information, and maybe wonder if she made the sky blue just to get whatever that was.

[Mr Ares]

Verin said "Moraine sent me", this is later refuted by Moraine herself. Thus Verin told a lie even if it is some convoluted twisting of logic which I know they do, it is still a LIE since it is not the truth.

It is certainly misleading, but this is true of AS statements in general. Her words could still be entirely true, though, which is what is needed to satisfy the Oath.

 

Again Alanna took Rand against his will, if you find that trustworthy actions very well then.

She had just lost her Warder. I don't put much trust in people who are grieving if I can help it, but is this really reason not to trust her promises?

 

Then we have Eladia who sends her Envoy to Rand with the pretense of peacefully brining him to the tower.

I would say less pretence, more unfulfilled hope. They intended to bring him in peacefully, but as Rand proved unwilling to comply they went with plan B.