my theory on taim

[AcE]

but the simple problem being that RJ has confirmed that Sammael is indeed very dead.

 

Ouch, that throws a nice dent in my theroy :shock:

 

Additionally, the crossed balefire stream was before the confrontation with Sammael, and in that fight balefire never went near sammael, but near Liah. Moreover Sammael was consumed by Mashadar, causing his ultimate death.

 

hhhmmm, i could of sworn he was aiming at Sammael who was standing next to the Waygate...

 

*scratches head* lets see if i can find it...

 

ok, i just re-read it (CoS p636/637)

Balefire crossing was just before, as you said...

He (Rand) was originally about to fire at Sammael, but fired at Liah, and swept the balefire to the square...

 

hhmm, the book doesn't actually state Sammael died, Rand assumes it, which is why i thought he may still be about...

 

However, if RJ has confirmed that Sammael is dead, then out the window goes my theory :lol:

 

Thanks for replying, and for the welcome :D

[Kadere]

Sammael was killed by Mashadar, there's nothing saying he can't come back. Even Moridin believes he's been reborn.

 

That being said, I don't buy Sam being Mazrim though.

[Luckers]

Sammael was killed by Mashadar, there's nothing saying he can't come back. Even Moridin believes he's been reborn.

 

Well, im not so certain about that, if you read the scene Moridin more seems distracted with thinking about who Sammael was, and specifically raises the point that one of the other Chosen could have done it under a disguise.

 

What im saying is that Moridin thought it was either old Sammael, or a person in a disguise. After all why would a reborn sammael disguise himself as old sammael... it would just reveal his presense, and it wasn't needed for the Trollocs to obey that command. The only sensible reason for a sammael figure to be there is if it really was sammael in his old body, or if it was someone else throwing off the blame. And Moridin displays a knowledge of that in what he says and the way he acts.

 

Also, if sammael did die, his soul would have been consumed by Mashadar. I think it is either Sammael is dead and gone for good, or he didn't die. And since we knew he DID die...

[Kadere]

I don't know of any place where it states Mashadar consumes your soul as well as your life. Also, I don't know of anything outside of Balefire that the Dark One's powers can't reach. We know Mashadar killed Sammael, and I think it possible if not likely that he could be reborn. I mean if he can reach Lanfear, why not Sam?

 

As for wheather he'd appear in his old body again, you have a point. Sammael is an arrogant prick, but he's not stupid.

 

I don't know who it was who sent the Trollocs, but I think Sam is a possiblity.

 

Though again, I don't buy Sam being Mazrim.

[Luckers]

well firstly, Sam didn't like his old body. He hated that the one power couldn't make him taller.

 

Secondly, the description of what Mashadar does inspires the belief that it sucks a soul, and i believe Moiraine says so in the Eye of the World, but i dont have my book on me so i can't make sure.

 

In any case the nature of what Mashadar does... what Shadar Logoth as a whole does, involved intrinsicly the nature of the person. It twists them and taints them, and we've seen through Mordeth that souls and Shadar Logoth are linked. I personally think Mashadar destroys souls making it impossible for rebirth.

 

As to the powers of the Dark One, it was never said that Balefire is the only way to remove a soul from the Dark One's touch. It's the only one we've ever heard him comment on, but thats not indicative. How would he reconstitute a soul that had been destroyed by something like Machin Shin? Indeed, we have evidence that souls held in tel'aran'rhiod are beyond his power also, which may have been the reason for the creation of the hedgehog ter'angreal in the first place.

 

Also the timeline would be a bit of an issue. Quite some time passed in the books before Aginor and Balthamel were reborn. Given the time spent in the waste and the like id say it was around the same for Moridin... we didn't see Cyndanes first appearence, but at least the same amount between her disapearence and her reapearence in Graendals manor. But the amount of time covered by each book has decreased in the later books.

 

I'd say maybe between one and two months have passed. There was the week he spent fighting the Seanchan. The two weeks he spent hunting the four asha'men, the two weeks he's been at the manor, and lets add a week, for the inbetween days. Thats six weeks. Sixty days. Two of our months, if you will, though one and a half of theirs. If Sammael was reborn in that time the Dark One has upped his game.

[Kadere]

Ah, but I believe the Dark One probably has upped his game. We're seeing more and more that the DO's powers are increasing, infestation of insects, ghosts, more bubbles of evil, yadda yadda.

 

Each rebirth has been done in a shorter amount of time. The time from Agnior and Balathemal's deaths to their rebirths is a good couple of years, the time from Ishameal's death to rebirth quite a few months, the time from Lanfear's death (assuming she died soon after entering the doorway) to rebirth only a few months. Sam's death was, as you say, only a couple of months ago (give or take a week or two), but I think the DO could do it.

 

Again, I'm not saying Sam is the guy who sent the trollocs, but I think there's a pretty good chance of his rebirth.

 

For me, the more Forsaken in the last battle the better.

[Luckers]

That is true. I still don't think Sammy could have been raised though.

[Lews Therin Telamon]

What makes everyone so sure that Taim has used an alter ego? From what I can remember I dont think hes ever needed to use one