Logains glory

[weeping anchor]

I do wish Rand would learn to trust at least one bloke around him...his distrust, isolation and humungous ego are making him foolish/agressive with people who would be his allies and friends. He is currently an arse, and whether he lives or dies becomes less of an emotional turning point so long as this continues - if he is toasted or has something bad happen, he needs to be more likable before that happens so bring on an emotional moment that makes us feel for him again (MORAINE - come back, make the arogant fool cry for a good reason for a change!!).

 

Back on topic, it would be good for Logain to have calendor. Rand will have the male choden kal for his confrontation so Calendor will be free. It is likely Cadsuane will select who uses it (just because...she's Cadsuane). I just hope neither her nor Egwene will end up fighting Rand on his plans of how to finish this (same fate as Lews Therin)- because he got his plan confirmed by the Ael Finn/Eel Finn, so he knows his next move. Why can't the ignorant buggers accept that he is Taveran and does only what is needed to be done (which probably requires that he be an arse right now lest he win easily).

 

My question is (and this is off topic again) - when Egwene is learning to use TAR, she discovers a fairly broken statue that causes pain when she channels while picking it up - in description, sounded like a broken key to the female Sa'Angreal. Can someone check that and confirm/deny? I can't find the passage again now...

[Samitsu]

I do wish Rand would learn to trust at least one bloke around him...his distrust' date=' isolation and humungous ego are making him foolish/agressive with people who would be his allies and friends. He is currently an arse, and whether he lives or dies becomes less of an emotional turning point so long as this continues - if he is toasted or has something bad happen, he needs to be more likable before that happens so bring on an emotional moment that makes us feel for him again (MORAINE - come back, make the arogant fool cry for a good reason for a change!!).

 

Back on topic, it would be good for Logain to have calendor. Rand will have the male choden kal for his confrontation so Calendor will be free. It is likely Cadsuane will select who uses it (just because...she's Cadsuane). I just hope neither her nor Egwene will end up fighting Rand on his plans of how to finish this (same fate as Lews Therin)- because he got his plan confirmed by the Ael Finn/Eel Finn, so he knows his next move. Why can't the ignorant buggers accept that he is Taveran and does only what is needed to be done (which probably requires that he be an arse right now lest he win easily).

 

My question is (and this is off topic again) - when Egwene is learning to use TAR, she discovers a fairly broken statue that causes pain when she channels while picking it up - in description, sounded like a broken key to the female Sa'Angreal. Can someone check that and confirm/deny? I can't find the passage again now...[/quote']

 

It does happen, i remember but i have no idea in which book it was

[Guest Cadsuane]

Didn't the key to the female Choedan Kal melt when Nyn used it to help Rand cleanse Saidin? How would it get from there to somewhere Eggy could find it?

[Gurney]

My question is (and this is off topic again) - when Egwene is learning to use TAR, she discovers a fairly broken statue that causes pain when she channels while picking it up - in description, sounded like a broken key to the female Sa'Angreal. Can someone check that and confirm/deny? I can't find the passage again now...

Egwene finds the broken Choedan Kal access key in The Shadow Rising, Chapter 11.

[Luckers]

Which would not only not work in and of itself (and if Lanfear is to be believed, would kill anyone who tried) but wouldn't work because the sa'angreal itself was destroyed in the cleansing.

[weeping anchor]

["Which would not only not work in and of itself (and if Lanfear is to be believed, would kill anyone who tried) but wouldn't work because the sa'angreal itself was destroyed in the cleansing."] UNQUOTE.

 

I thought it was the key (Ter'Angreal) that was melted, not the statue on Tremalking (Sa'Angreal), so the actual tool/weapon is still OK. If I'm wrong on this, then the whole point to this chain of thought is useless and ignore my ranting madness.

 

The reason I figured it might become important is that if Egwene ever saw Rand's statue, it might trigger her to remember - and couldn't Elayne make a new key if she had the broken one to play with???

 

(Gurney - thanks for the story location reference, appreciated.)

 

The key is in Tanchico.

 

Unless something happens with this, I don't understand why RJ would have included it, but maybe I'm grasping at straws. I mean, it does depend on people actually TALKING to each other, if it pleases the light...

[Kaznen]

Yes, the sa'nagreal on Tremalkin(?) is destroyed. That is why all those people killed themselves.

[Luckers]

As Kaznen says, the actual Sa'angreal was indeed destroyed (it melted, to be precise). This is specifically spoken off in the KoD chapter "To Make an Anchor Weep".

 

Moreover, that access key was included as foreshadow. It was broken and never would have worked. Lanfear said that it was a trap for any unknowing Aes Sedai who happened along it, and indicated it would kill anyone who tried to use it. Egwene touched it in TAR and it nearly killed her... just touching it, AND in the dreamworld where it wouldn't work anyway.

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Why wouldn't it work in the dream world? The real world counterpart wouldn't, but the dream equivalent would work just fine in the dream. Wouldn't it? You may lampoon me if I am wrong.

[Luckers]

Well we have seen Egwene draw on a angreal in the deamworld, so perhaps my statement was wrong--but it strikes me about how far that can be taken. Could she just imagine an angreal into existence? Could she remove one present in the dreamworld everytime she went... It strikes me as something that could get very out of control, which is why RJ never covered it i imagine.

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Yeah... Nynaeve could've created a sa'angreal against Moghedien in tFoH, and beaten her into the ground even when she was barely in TA'R. But maybe you need to know it really well, like understand EXACTLY what an angreal is, and how it does what it does. But that doesn't really hold up, considering Nynaeve made the a'dam and no one knows how to make ter'angreal but Elayne. I don't know... Rahvin or Ishamael or really anyone could have created an angreal (Ishy could have used a TP Callandor in the Stone, right?) and killed Rand but no one has done so... I just don't think it's been given much thought. And yeah, it would get out of control, wouldn't it? I seriously have no idea, and I don't think we're gonna see it in this series.

[Luckers]

There are a couple of things like this in the series as a result of the power... for instance, why dont Aes Sedai simply heal dead bodies then resusitate them? Theoretically that should work until brain death occurs. What about Keepings? Why not weponize them? Freeze your enemy in time?

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Didn't Moiraine say something about not being able to weave two Wards at one time? I'm sure the Aes Sedai don't fancy pile upon pungent pile of dead rats. You either keep someone out, or detect an intruder, or fry an intruder. Again, at the risk of appearing useless, I will express my utter befuddlement. Some stuff is just not important enough, I suppose. Or maybe there's not enough time. Or maybe Aes Sedai are stupid. We know that's always a possibility.

[Luckers]

If your speaking of the Keeping? Thats not a ward, its a weave that freezes something in time, like foodstuffs and the like. It has been failing in KoD because of the dark ones influence. But i still think it could be weaponized. Theoretically you could just throw it over an entire area and stop your enemies dead that way.

[Llewin]

 

My question is (and this is off topic again) - when Egwene is learning to use TAR' date=' she discovers a fairly broken statue that causes pain when she channels while picking it up - in description, sounded like a broken key to the female Sa'Angreal. Can someone check that and confirm/deny? I can't find the passage again now...[/quote']

 

That is confirmed. I BELIEVE it was Moghedien's point of view (but definitely a female forsaken) which mentioned the "nasty surprise" you mentioned..

[Featherless Hawkwing]

A Keeping is not a Ward? Thanks, man...

 

Maybe it's a very time-consuming thing, stopping time, requiring rings, and your enemy might just kill you while you're trying to freeze them in time.

 

I reiterate: Aes Sedai could just be stupid.

[Luckers]

Yeah--they are. And to be fair RJ has a lot less of these magical discrepencies then most fantasy series'.

 

Concider this, what if the 72 most powerful channelers around were to link, with every angreal and sa'angreal involved inclusing the Choedan Kal, Callandor, that wand sa'angreal the Aes Sedai have and whatever other sa'angreal they have (i believe based on the way its spoken about there must be at least more then three sa'angreal in Aes Sedai posession).

 

Why wasn't such a thing done in AOL? Surely even without the Choedan Kal, a link using sa'angreal like that would have been capable of doing some pretty nasty things to the Dark One.

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Maybe, that COULD have created a better seal on the DO's prison. I still don't understand whatever amount of the OP could do anything to either the Creator or the Dark One. What would you strike at, and how would you know?

 

Add lots of angreal to that. Weaker, true, but if 25 people have angreal, that's like adding 50-75 people to your link... although with such titantic amounts of the Power, that would be a drop in the ocean.

[mercurial67]

Concider this' date=' what if the 72 most powerful channelers around were to link, with every angreal and sa'angreal involved inclusing the Choedan Kal, Callandor, that wand sa'angreal the Aes Sedai have and whatever other sa'angreal they have (i believe based on the way its spoken about there must be at least more then three sa'angreal in Aes Sedai posession).[/quote']First, who is to say they didn't do that in the AoL? Don't forget though, the other side is just as capable of doing the same thing.

 

I also don't think we have been shown what happens when someone in a link is killed. With 72 people, you are much more vulnerable vs a circle of say 5-10. You would need several groups of 5-10 just defending the larger group. Wouldn't you also have to wait until you were close to your objective before forging the links? I don't think they had methods to strike half a continent away. I'm sure there are lots of nasty things which could be done while everyone is trying to get the link formed.

 

So while it is possible to do such a thing, I don't think in a fight it is very practical.

[Luckers]

Well we have seen people die in links at the cleansing, without the other members showing any sort of problem--and moreover Narishma later states that Daigan was drawing saidin from Eben to the very end... she didn't release the link before he died.

[eldar89]

About adding angreal and sa'angreal in the dreamworld... I agree it is not likely that aspect of this series will be explored in depth, but consider the fact that angreal and sa'angreal are different from ter'angreal in that they are used to magnify the OP rather than use it in various ways, so perhaps that would be why Nyn was able to imagine an a'dam to hold Moggy but they don't go crazy imagining more and more powerful sa'angreals in the dreamworld. And anyway, the OP in the world of dreams is less of a weapon than knowledge of the world of dreams, so perhaps the forsaken rest complacently with the knowledge that they own the world of dreams while new AS such as Nyn are n00bs who just happen to win by luck in ignorance. Besides, a'dam seem to be the easiest ter'agreal to make anyway cuz they have so many of them over in Seanchan. How hard could it be to make them?

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Well, the damane who make the a'dam in Seanchan are worth their weight in gold, so not too easy, I'd say.

[Luckers]

Actually no, it does seem to be easy... a mold that one can simply copy if one has the Talent... the fact that few channelers seem to have the Talent is why its worth their weight in gold. But understanding the actual nature and function of the a'dam, and duplicating that seems to be fairly easy, and imply that for a ter'angreal, an a'dam is fairly simple. The fact that the a'dam is the only ter'angreal Elayne can make with any level of ease is indicative of that.

[Featherless Hawkwing]

Maybe in TA'R it might be easy, because of its relative simplicity, but as far as eldar's views are concerned, I don't think it is easy to make them, or make them at all, without the Talent, at least in the real world. For those with the Talent, they're probably like smileys to an artist. So, maybe I'm wrong, but there is very good reason that the damane who can create a'dam are prized. Which I think we all agree on. So, I hope things are clear.

 

Wait, no one can make any ter'angreal at all without the Talent, right? Ohh... this is pointless. What's the post subject again?

 

In conclusion, we're all right. Or maybe it's just me who's wrong?