The Gathering Storm - Chapter 41 : A Fount of Power - I wasn't happy with it ( Spoilers )

[Loose Theremin]

This is the chapter after ' The Tower Shakes ' so Egwene is fighting against the Seanchan raiders. Siuan, Gareth Bryne and their party get into Tar Valon and "rescue" Egwene and take her back to the Rebel camp.

 

I thought this was an anti-climactic way to write the end of the Seanchan raid. I would much have preferred it if after realizing what Egwene was doing the Tower Aes Sedai had sent a force of Sisters and their Warders up to the 22nd floor to help Egwene and rescue the Novices. Which is very likely what they would have done. Then Egwene would have been hailed and treated like the hero she was and been seen into bed along with the rest of the Novices who no doubt were as exhausted as Egwene was.

 

Then when the Tower Aes Sedai learned that Elaida had been taken by the Seanchan they would have decided to give it up and accept Egwene as the Amyrlin. Why not go for an immediate pay off ? Rather than delaying it with Egwene back in the Rebel camp contemplating overthrowing the Tower by force. A scenario that seemed rather far fetched considering what Egwene had just done in defending the Tower.

 

Siuan, Gareth and party could have been spotted early on by Tower guards and brought into the Aes Sedai centre of operations to explain themselves and then pitched in with the defense of the Tower. Everything else except them taking Egwene back to the Rebel camp could have happened as it did.

Edited September 11 by Loose Theremin
Break up a paragraph

[Tenobia si bashere kazadi]

Yes that sounds better 

[Mailman]

13 hours ago, Loose Theremin said:

This is the chapter after ' The Tower Shakes ' so Egwene is fighting against the Seanchan raiders. Siuan, Gareth Bryne and their party get into Tar Valon and "rescue" Egwene and take her back to the Rebel camp.

 

I thought this was an anti-climactic way to write the end of the Seanchan raid. I would much have preferred it if after realizing what Egwene was doing the Tower Aes Sedai had sent a force of Sisters and their Warders up to the 22nd floor to help Egwene and rescue the Novices. Which is very likely what they would have done. Then Egwene would have been hailed and treated like the hero she was and been seen into bed along with the rest of the Novices who no doubt were as exhausted as Egwene was.

 

Then when the Tower Aes Sedai learned that Elaida had been taken by the Seanchan they would have decided to give it up and accept Egwene as the Amyrlin. Why not go for an immediate pay off ? Rather than delaying it with Egwene back in the Rebel camp contemplating overthrowing the Tower by force. A scenario that seemed rather far fetched considering what Egwene had just done in defending the Tower.

 

Siuan, Gareth and party could have been spotted early on by Tower guards and brought into the Aes Sedai centre of operations to explain themselves and then pitched in with the defense of the Tower. Everything else except them taking Egwene back to the Rebel camp could have happened as it did.

It could have been written that way but I am not sure it is better.

 

You lose the drama of the stand off at the bridges when Egwene with extreme reluctance moves her forces into position to take the tower and then holds them back.

 

In no way is the scenario of Egwene being forced into attacking the tower at that moment far fetched. She had defended the tower from the external threat but the time for delaying the reunification was now over and the rebels had their best chance to take the tower with the lowest cost to lives.

 

You miss the pay off of having the rebels being successful.

 

The tower was not in a state after the attack to deal with a Black Ajah purge and Egwenes place was not as established as it was within the Rebel camp. 

 

Siuan and co would never have been folded into the defence of the tower and would have been almost useless as they were a small squad of soldiers (2 boats maybe 20 to 30 soldiers and 1 weak channeler) even if they were.

 

Egwenes being a hero was secure with or without her waking in the Tower.

 

You may have liked the immediate pay off but I thought the chapter following the attack was great with the purge of the Black sisters and the tension of the decision to finally move the troops forward.

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

Plus to the Tower Egwene was not even an Aes Sedai. Why would they accept her as Amyrlin because of her heroics? And the situation with the rebels had not been resolved either, to put it down entirely to Elaida's personality seems a bit superficial. 

[Loose Theremin]

7 hours ago, Mailman said:

It could have been written that way but I am not sure it is better.

 

You lose the drama of the stand off at the bridges when Egwene with extreme reluctance moves her forces into position to take the tower and then holds them back.

 

In no way is the scenario of Egwene being forced into attacking the tower at that moment far fetched. She had defended the tower from the external threat but the time for delaying the reunification was now over and the rebels had their best chance to take the tower with the lowest cost to lives.

 

You miss the pay off of having the rebels being successful.

 

The tower was not in a state after the attack to deal with a Black Ajah purge and Egwenes place was not as established as it was within the Rebel camp. 

 

Siuan and co would never have been folded into the defence of the tower and would have been almost useless as they were a small squad of soldiers (2 boats maybe 20 to 30 soldiers and 1 weak channeler) even if they were.

 

Egwenes being a hero was secure with or without her waking in the Tower.

 

You may have liked the immediate pay off but I thought the chapter following the attack was great with the purge of the Black sisters and the tension of the decision to finally move the troops forward.

 

Thanks for the detailed reply ! It is so interesting that we have completely opposite opinions about this ! Let me do a break down of it:

 

- You lose the drama of the stand-off at the bridges...

 

I didn't see that as dramatic at all because to me it was nonsense. It was obvious that the Tower would be re-united.

 

- In no way is the scenario of Egwene being forced into attacking the tower at that moment far fetched...

 

Really !? When Egwene had sleepily protested when she was being rescued " No don't take me back. I am winning ! " She knew she would have had them eating out of her hand. In fact why didn't she just go back to the Tower the next morning ? They would have been throwing rose petals at her feet ! Why this big fake drama about being at each other's throats ? As I said it was nonsense.

 

- You miss the pay off of having the rebels being successful.

 

But either way they were successful. I don't understand your point.

 

- The tower was not in a state after the attack to deal with a Black Ajah purge and Egwenes place was not as established as it was within the Rebel camp.

 

This seems like a good point on the surface but I think it would have been worth showing Egwene working with the Tower to catch as many Black Ajah from both "camps" as possible in one go. It would have been another practical way to show everyone how competent and able Egwene was and to show her taking over as the new Amyrlin. If the Tower was still in some disarray well they would just have to have dealt with it.

 

- Siuan and co would never have been folded into the defence of the tower...

 

Why not ? It was an unprecedented emergency after all.

 

- Egwenes being a hero was secure with or without her waking in the Tower.

 

It's not about Egwene's status as a hero being secure. It's about having a satisfying conclusion and emotional pay-off to one of the best events in the books. And Brandon Sanderson didn't do it. Mind you Robert Jordan didn't do it after the cleansing of Saidin either so Sanderson wasn't on his own in this regard.

 

- You may have liked the immediate pay off but I thought the chapter following the attack was great with the purge of the Black sisters...

 

Yes the purge of the Black Ajah sisters was very good but it would have been just as good if it had happened in the Tower. Maybe even better !

 

Thanks for the lively discussion and feel free to reply to my reply if you want !

 

 

[Loose Theremin]

6 minutes ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

Plus to the Tower Egwene was not even an Aes Sedai. Why would they accept her as Amyrlin because of her heroics? And the situation with the rebels had not been resolved either, to put it down entirely to Elaida's personality seems a bit superficial. 

 

But they did accept Egwene as the new Amyrlin didn't they. And Elaida was gone and absolutely no-one was interested in getting her back ! So they went with Egwene because of her actions in fighting the Seanchan and in fighting Elaida. Neither of which were in any way superficial. Isn't it so hmm !?

[Mailman]

3 minutes ago, Loose Theremin said:

 

But they did accept Egwene as the new Amyrlin didn't they. And Elaida was gone and absolutely no-one was interested in getting her back ! So they went with Egwene because of her actions in fighting the Seanchan and in fighting Elaida. Neither of which were in any way superficial. Isn't it so hmm !?

The rebels had no idea that Elaidia was gone. Egwene specifically confronted them at the bridges on in they were deposing another Amyrlin and was only then informed that Elaidia had been captured by the Seachan.

[Mailman]

17 hours ago, Loose Theremin said:

 

Thanks for the detailed reply ! It is so interesting that we have completely opposite opinions about this ! Let me do a break down of it:

 

- You lose the drama of the stand-off at the bridges...

 

I didn't see that as dramatic at all because to me it was nonsense. It was obvious that the Tower would be re-united.

 

- In no way is the scenario of Egwene being forced into attacking the tower at that moment far fetched...

 

Really !? When Egwene had sleepily protested when she was being rescued " No don't take me back. I am winning ! " She knew she would have had them eating out of her hand. In fact why didn't she just go back to the Tower the next morning ? They would have been throwing rose petals at her feet ! Why this big fake drama about being at each other's throats ? As I said it was nonsense.

 

- You miss the pay off of having the rebels being successful.

 

But either way they were successful. I don't understand your point.

 

- The tower was not in a state after the attack to deal with a Black Ajah purge and Egwenes place was not as established as it was within the Rebel camp.

 

This seems like a good point on the surface but I think it would have been worth showing Egwene working with the Tower to catch as many Black Ajah from both "camps" as possible in one go. It would have been another practical way to show everyone how competent and able Egwene was and to show her taking over as the new Amyrlin. If the Tower was still in some disarray well they would just have to have dealt with it.

 

- Siuan and co would never have been folded into the defence of the tower...

 

Why not ? It was an unprecedented emergency after all.

 

- Egwenes being a hero was secure with or without her waking in the Tower.

 

It's not about Egwene's status as a hero being secure. It's about having a satisfying conclusion and emotional pay-off to one of the best events in the books. And Brandon Sanderson didn't do it. Mind you Robert Jordan didn't do it after the cleansing of Saidin either so Sanderson wasn't on his own in this regard.

 

- You may have liked the immediate pay off but I thought the chapter following the attack was great with the purge of the Black sisters...

 

Yes the purge of the Black Ajah sisters was very good but it would have been just as good if it had happened in the Tower. Maybe even better !

 

Thanks for the lively discussion and feel free to reply to my reply if you want !

 

 

The rebels had no idea that Eladia was gone so the thought that the tower would be reunited was a certainty is misplaced. If they had known the chances would have been far greater, however the fact that miscommunication could still lead to bloodshed provided good tension.

 

A small rebel force led by a weak unknown wilder would have been relegated to inconsequential by Tower forces and their only real possible role was fulfilled in the rescue of Egwene.

 

Egwene being with the rebels made for a more satisfying conclusion to me than her being inside the tower when that reunification occurred. Also allowed for her to more aptly set up the Rebels having to apologize for their splintering of the Tower.

 

I dont feel the mark was missed in giving Egwene her moment for reuniting the tower, but this is open to interpretation and it is a little while since i have read that section.

 

 

Edited September 13 by Mailman

[HeavyHalfMoonBlade]

8 hours ago, Loose Theremin said:

 

But they did accept Egwene as the new Amyrlin didn't they. And Elaida was gone and absolutely no-one was interested in getting her back ! So they went with Egwene because of her actions in fighting the Seanchan and in fighting Elaida. Neither of which were in any way superficial. Isn't it so hmm !?

I still feel that they had to accept Egwene as the head of the rebels, and accept that Elaida had broken the law. Them sticking an Accepted into the Amyrlin Seat because Elaida disappeared without actually addressing any of the issues would seem to me to be a bit of an anticlimax and a bit nonsensical. Egwene had no right to be Amyrlin, unless you accepted the rebels had the authority to raise her. Her actions against the Seanchan in and of themselves had nothing to do with it. 

[Loose Theremin]

18 hours ago, Mailman said:

The rebels had no idea that Elaidia was gone. Egwene specifically confronted them at the bridges on in they were deposing another Amyrlin and was only then informed that Elaidia had been captured by the Seachan.

 

Yes that is true but all the Tower had to do was send a messenger to tell the Rebels that Elaida was gone. And Egwene scolding the Tower Aes Sedai for wanting to depose yet another Amyrlin was sloppy writing because that is exactly what Egwene was trying to do herself !

[Loose Theremin]

10 hours ago, HeavyHalfMoonBlade said:

I still feel that they had to accept Egwene as the head of the rebels, and accept that Elaida had broken the law. Them sticking an Accepted into the Amyrlin Seat because Elaida disappeared without actually addressing any of the issues would seem to me to be a bit of an anticlimax and a bit nonsensical. Egwene had no right to be Amyrlin, unless you accepted the rebels had the authority to raise her. Her actions against the Seanchan in and of themselves had nothing to do with it. 

 

Well as it was written in the books nowhere did it say in Tower Law that the Amyrlin had to be an Aes Sedai, which is why Egwene was able to be elected. Did the Rebels have the right to raise Egwene to Amyrlin ? Did Elaida have the right to depose Siuan ? Did the Seanchan have the right to claim Randland ? Did the Aiel have the right to take the fifth ? And so on.

[Mailman]

2 hours ago, Loose Theremin said:

 

Yes that is true but all the Tower had to do was send a messenger to tell the Rebels that Elaida was gone. And Egwene scolding the Tower Aes Sedai for wanting to depose yet another Amyrlin was sloppy writing because that is exactly what Egwene was trying to do herself !

The rebel Aes sedai and Egwene had not deposed an Amyrlin. The Tower Aes Sedai had.

[Loose Theremin]

5 hours ago, Mailman said:

The rebel Aes sedai and Egwene had not deposed an Amyrlin. The Tower Aes Sedai had.

 

That doesn't alter the fact that Egwene was criticising the Tower Aes Sedai for doing something that she was planning to do herself.

[Mailman]

2 hours ago, Loose Theremin said:

 

That doesn't alter the fact that Egwene was criticising the Tower Aes Sedai for doing something that she was planning to do herself.

It would have been the Tower doing it a 2nd time no one in the Rebels had done it before.