Wheel of Time - Post (Book) Ending. [Spoilers Inside]

[Mesothalassa]

I began reading Wheel of Time in sixth grade. I would re-read it several times a year. It carried me through the 90s, the 2000s, and still further. 

 

I'm very disappointed with what the TV Show has done to the series. All I have to say on that matter is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Four_Olds

Which will lead to this: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/may/07/mao-little-general-horror-cultural-revolution

 

E.G. Mesaana's Children. 

https://wot.fandom.com/wiki/Forsaken#Mesaana

 

Jordan had a rare grasp of real history. Many of the places and events of the story are Asian. Particularly East Asian in their roots. It isn't surprising to me then that the West would butcher his work. There are two continents missing its original East Asian populations in our real life save for a small remnant who barely know who they are. Or were. And if certain Western and Middle Eastern born theological conquests hadn't turned on themselves I doubt there would be any in East Asia either. You might notice the Collective West and its allies are gearing up to do attempt to finish the job, too.

 

In saying all this I would, therefore, like to be clear. I am not keen on writing this. 
 

Still, some things deserve to be said.

 

Lanfear was a Heroine of Heroines:

She made the Bore that opened the world of the Age of Legends to the Dark One, but she did so innocently. In fact, the world looked forward to her attempt. And, as she says to Perrin at the end, life isn't so simple. She drilled into the Dark One's prison and the world? That and celebrated her achievements until then? Surely, it turned on her. And when her final thread to "that humanity" was snapped by Lews Therin seeking another bed to crawl in? She gave up trying. On the world, at least. She still wanted him.

~ Three Thousand Years Later:

She goes out of her way to find, prepare, train, and ARM who? Rand. The only person in the world she loved. And not only Rand. Perrin. Mat. How many others? It's a real question. How many of you picked up on this? During the Cold War in real life the Soviets' spy who defeated TOLD US that the Berlin Wall would come down. IN ADVANCE? And did anyone listen?? What happens when you pretend peace to make war covertly? To infiltrate every little walk of breadth of your enemy's defenses? And that's how the Shadow Began to advance again after the Stale Mate in the Age of Legends. Just as how Ishmael had access to what during the Trolloc Wars? Dreaming! He could literally just sift through their documents while they slept. And the fall of Aridhol? It split the Ten Nations in half. See, Jordan didn't directly clue us in to things. He let you pick up on it. Everyone gripes about how long his details are. Ever notice what he's detailing though? Perrin doesn't notice rich clothing. Not while Jordan was writing.

 

Now, after The Last Battle:

We have several Forsaken in captivity and one Heroine Deemed Forsaken in Seanchan.

 

You have the Daughter of the Night in Seanchan.

 

The most prestigious and accomplished scientist of her time loose in a nation set to go into the most rapid industrial revolution of the entire book series. Friend of Perrin, loved by him (compulsion or not), and honestly having talked to him. Stating plainly the substance of WHY she was on the Shadow's side. That he should stop and think about it. We all should.

 

To understand her words and then the future of Wheel of Time is very important.

 

We can see from how the people who lived in her time murdered her Aiel for simply stating the truth of her. They killed him. Imagine what they would have done to her if she'd stayed with the Light after Lews Therin went seeking a fix elsewhere? Look at the sham of "democracy" and "liberty" the West is presently. Now ramp that up to eleven. 

 

We also know that Lews Therin was good Friends with both her and Elan. 

 

That's terrible important! 

 

Very likely, too, Egwene of the books is Shadow Slicer of the Age of Legends. 

 

In other words, what appears to be happening is that all these people GREW UP TOGETHER in the pervious age. Perrin was some green peacer. Mat was likely the guy who wept at the Betrayal of Hope. Etc. This means that the pattern constructs souls who exist on BOTH sides of the Light and Dark. As Rand realizes upon planning to kill the Dark One... it isn't an enemy. It is simply a primal urge of sorts. He very likely could have killed it, too. Only to then have to find someone else to be that primal urge. Or the Pattern would have simply directed the next worst soul to stand there. Meaning, Elan was wrong. Rand was wrong, too. You can kill it. Only, it isn't the point. Stop being awful was the point. 

 

Lanfear NEEDED to be on the side of the Shadow. Just as Elan did. Just as Rand NEEDED to gain the True Power, etc.

 

It is very likely that different Ages have different needs. Certain key figures at sort of "shuffled" to their roles while "the challenger" is replaced with "the challenge" in these various ages. Sometimes it is the Dark One directly. At other times it is more likely something profoundly abstract. Like our own time. We keep choosing Marxism saying "That wasn't true Marxism. Let's kill another half a billion people and see if turns out better this time! Yippie!" Etc. 

 

Post-War I think Lanfear already stated perfectly clearly to Perrin the whole of her.

 

She's going to start industrializing the Seanchan. She doesn't care about doing evil. That's not even part of her profile. What she cares about is a kind of truth to power. She'll play any side, but she simply wants Power. Egwene was rather like this, too. But Egwene is only good on the battle field. In a political position she'll snuff out anyone around her simply because they got above her. Lanfear doesn't care if you're above her. That just means she'll work harder. Egwene will kick your feet out from under you saying you should have expected it.

 

Most important of all, she's motivated! The Dark One would likely LOVE to nom on her soul. Only that's not a possibility now. So, her motivations to see this civilization not go tumbling back to the shadow are PURE. Pure and self-motivated. From Lanfear? That's like willing the lottery of the ages.

 

The real danger in the Seanchan is Graendal.

 

She's captured, too, and a real lunatic. A blood thirsty, crazy, lunatic. 

 

I think what happens in the Seanchan empire is straight forward. Lanfear uses her hundreds of years of experience at living through the Collapse, the War of Power, and then the Last Battle to get the Seanchan unified again. Then industrializing on a course that puts the world on the path of a future far removed from another direct confrontation with the Dark One. 

 

And then the Light snuffs her out. 

 

This is basically the Pattern doing an auto-correct. I needs her just as it needed Elan to be where he was. 

 

These core people seem to be reborn again and again as kind of like parts of the Loom. The Dark One doesn't kill them off. The Light doesn't kill them off. And from the Last Battle we can see that the Creator really IS monitoring all this. Kind of like a Moderator. Any of these people "could" step out of a line. Maybe in some really screwed up twisted ways. But it doesn't happen. Why? It's not part of the wider design. Not even the Dark One really gets a say in that. It's not challenging the Creator directly. It's challenging the Dragon Reborn (and staff). 

The Dark One doesn't have or want staff.

 

This is another crucial thing. 

It simply uses people. If they decline? Get another? They think they are valued? How are the Forsaken doing by the time of the Last Battle? Who really did them the more harm? The Light or the Dark One itself.

 

The Dark One is purity of indifference in a lot of ways. Worse than that, but I'm at the limit of what English will convey without peotry.

 

Now, how does Perrin end up in Seanchan and why?

I think Fortuna sends Mat again Perrin at some point. Likely because of a convolution of events that only make sense in Seanchan logic. Omens, Doom Seer, and just political backwardness on the part of the Wetlands not having the brains to be civil without trying to manipulate themselves into THE hegemons. 

 

The first failing will come from the Aiel. The second from Andor. And then Graendal. 

Mat will very likely encounter Lanfear and recognize her. Mat's just like that. More over, he and Olver have to go back to the Snakes and Foxes. Who else is most connected to the Snakes and Foxes? Lanfear. Again... the Pattern needs her to be her. That means getting her back in her right body and then... very likely she vanishes into some alternative reality. Cut off there really. And there are parallels for this. She has a lot of Fuxi and Nuwa like stuff going on in her background. Look that up. It's a long, long, war story. Also, Chandra and that epic. Basically, Lanfear will be needed again... way later... far out in some later age. As herself. Think Limit Break Lanfear.

 

This is, again, the Pattern righting itself. 

 

Once she's gone the stuff that sent Mat into a confrontation with Perrin points squarely at Graendal. Though, they probably won't know it's her without talking to Rand.

 

Elayne is simply not reliable. Especially post-Sanderson. She's been altered too much. She's British now. Not Andorean. Without some massive attention to detail to fix the damage done to that character I don't really see her being good for the world. The only good she really could contribute is mass producing the documents from that Ter'angrael book collection she had, then dying off, too. She was just Rand's "next" for most of the story. 

 

Elayne may have some avenue for resurrection as a character like to her earlier self if she starts wandering the world again. Maybe a Galad takes over?

This could actually be a very good thing if that happened. Galad has possession of channeling canceling Ter'Angrael. 

 

Going forwards I think that White Cloaks will turn into something akin to Police.

 

I don't think they will be a nation based group nor an independent national body. I think that what will happen is that the issues Graendal creates causes a strong rift between the Seanchan and the White Tower. Specially the White Tower. Egwene was not good as a political leader. She as traumatized and a bit crazed when it came to the Seanchan. She never once consulted in (only insulted) those of her origins besides Nynaeve. This meant she didn't get to see Perrin's interactions with Tai Li. And possibly it means Faile dies. Either as a result of what happened after being attacked by so many Trollocs or as an accident of Mat's assault on Perrin's forces. Either way, Tai Li gets Perrin to Seanchan.

 

From here we start to see the Age "turn".

 

We go from the Third Age to the Four around this time.

 

The reason for this is that Perrin will likely be on the path of killing Mat. Mat will somehow luck out on convincing Perrin he NEEDED Perrin because Lanfear is alive. They both luck out in discovering Lanfear really is highly motivated to not have the Seanchan (or anyone else) tilt towards a path that could let the Dark One back out. But that,  that is exactly what Graendal being lose means. And Lanfear has somehow clued in that that lunatic is alive. This ties in with Olver and the Tower of Ghenjei. Very likely Perrin does not go. Mat, Olver, and Perrin do. And Olver does the talking. Lanfear gets left behind (willingly) in the trades. Actual trades. Leading up to her playing some omni-age-defining-role deep into the lore-fantasy of the future Wheel of Time mythos.

 

Meanwhile Mat, Olver, and Perrin (along with maybe Birgitte Silverbow, who would be about right in age) could show up.

And that's basically it.

At this point you're up to the point of Avendha's visions. 

 

From here a few things can happen. Fortuna dies and a daughter takes over. 

 

This is where it gets very messy. Chancy really. See, I think what happens that "breaks the dragon's peace" is someone's kid dies. Some wives die, too, but it's the kids that start the whole matter. We know Rand's bloodline nearly goes poof again. Which is VERY PROBABLY Graendal AND Mesaana (ty Nynaeve). This leads the Aiel on the path to retribution. Min being the one to keep the bloodline going. So, this means that Avendha gets dead and/or one of her children. And this likely means that one of her children (surviving) goes on the war path. Leading to the events we see in her visions. And this decision to Aiel-SWAT Team team the Seanchan. Fortuna dies (forsaken again, but Hawkwing's kids' style). A new empress is raised. And, from here the mass chain of events to follow starts cascading.

 

The Aiel maybe don't achieve the To they wanted out of the events. And likely by this point they have become corrupted by Wetlander behavior. They are not longer that Native America / Shaolin style people with a blend of Arabic Dervish. They are instead more like fish-out-of-water confused. Trying to be Aiel while trying to be Wetlander-appealing. Leading to corrupted morals. Actions like omitting information. So, Andor conducts a raid with them. And then, one of the Blood dies. I don't think this ends any core character's bloodlines. That would go against the whole Pattern issue. Instead, someone beloved by this new empress drops dead. By Aiel. And it comes out that the manipulation was known. 

The Wetlanders end up in a protracted war. This time it is the Seanchan coming after the Aiel (across the Misty Mountains). And this time Perrin isn't there with Tai Li to temper things. They're in the grave from age. Rand is probably still around Nynaeve. Elayne... But a rare few others of substance from that "core" body. And this is the Age turning a page. It just happened that a few of the Shadow's final minions are screwing things up as best the can. 

 

I don't think there's any way out of the Aiel.

 

A few will be manipulated by Avendha I think into taking up the Way of the Leaf. And from this the basic methods of what it is to be Aiel from the Age of Legends gets back into the Tuatha'an. Meanwhile, they (likely from Mat) learn the song Rand sung. And then the Ogier "leave". Or at least most do. 

 

And that's roughly "the end". 

 

The Aiel as we knew them in the books get wiped out just as Avendha saw. 

The Ogier leave to another world. Like the Snakes and Foxes meta cosmos wherein also we have left off Lanfear.

 

Nynaeve probably "Ends" Mesaana. Just as we ought to end a certain repetition of history.

 

Mat and Perrin would have ended Graendal in their time.

As for the wider meta cosmos? 

I think that the Pattern is a bit like the Heroes of the Horn. Lews Therin's "100" Companions anyone?
 

The Pattern seems to roughly "mold" itself to each of the Companions. Sometimes several at a time. 

 

This is why we don't see the "core" heroes also showing up in the Horn group. The Horn folk are like Rock Stars. You need several to make a band. The Pattern works them in and out like that. Even things like Hopper's death probably wasn't a full "death". Even balefire. Rather, it kicks them into another shuffle. We might now see Hopper only appear as like a spirit wolf companion bound to the hammer. Mat's dice might become legendary artifacts. Egwene might become some sort of "dream guide". The Pattern doesn't really let things go. It just re-forges them to its next composition. Heck, in some ages Weaves are probably Songs. Which is why in our Age we have 'heart' of the possibility of Chi and Taiji, but anyone sane knows "to publish is to perish" in this environment. 

 

And so on.

 

 

 

That's my rough take on the Wheel of Time universe. 

[Mesothalassa]

An Aside:

I don't think the White Tower survives either.

I was going to mention this, but I thought it was getting a bit long. After re-reading, it needs said.

 

The White Tower is too alien to humanity survive. Halving some's life just to force them to speak the truth because they can channel? This is just a remnant of Egwene being Egwene. 

 

The result of Egwene being Egwene is that they are in a direct path of needless confrontation with the Seanchan. They have already made zero effort to remotely communicate with the Seanchan. The Seanchan in turn see them as extremely violent rabid animals. Even Awakened-Rand (if you will) warns Nynaeve against them.

 

I think the Tower will simply do what any child learns from a traumatized half crazed mother when confronting that mother's abuser: Last Out.

 

When the Aiel and Andor do what they do? 

 

This will draw the Tower in.

 

For good reason! The suffering the women that are captured by the Seanchan will go through who can channel? Totally understandable reaction.

 

Unfortunately, not a winning hand.

 

The problem lies in the way Egwene entraps them. The Three-Oaths came about in the first 1000 years after the Breaking. A few power mad women then decided to Still every woman not part of the Tower. This seems to actually be how the Kin got going, though. Prior, Aes Sedai were a loose confederation. Probably akin to a kind of graduate studies advancement. Simply being able to channel didn't make someone Aes Sedai, but possibly joining some confederation of associating bodies did. And very possibly the "servant" aspect was like being called in to court. You showed up to help did a trench if that was needed. It seemed by the time the Age of Legends was coming to a close stuff like that was being abused all the time. Channeling was doing everything, but what was the cost to the channelers.

 

I think the Reds leaving for the Black Tower is where the power shift will go. The White Tower will simply fall. I don't think it will even be a clean victory. Not for the Seanchan, but absolutely a collapse for the White Tower. The issue being the Oaths. 

 

Unable to adapt to the changes at a pace the TOWER sets? 

 

Seanchan aren't White Cloaks. 

 

They won't be bullied out of a region and they are beyond psychotic in their ideas about channelers. 

 

As long as the White Tower has the Oaths, even a modification of them? 

Anyone who joins the Aes Sedai is having their lives HALVED.

 

And for what? Egwene said so?

 

This is very typical Egwene.

 

And what are men going to respond to when a woman tells them to cut their lives in half? They'll pick up that rod, snap it in half, and challenge the jagged broken in down the speaker's throat. Then distribute the rest more randomly across the surviving. Creatively.

 

And that will be about all the Tower can expect of that.

 

Meanwhile? The Kin and the Reds will be fine. 

 

And so will the Black Tower. 

 

That roughly ends Aes Sedai as we have known them. 

 

Again, the Pattern turns the page.

 

I think this is a good thing on the whole. It would mean that the Kin, who aren't stupid, will just "vanish" again. While the Reds with a re-composed role and no binding Oaths? Oh they will have a holiday with that... 

 

This will leave the Seanchan with a problem. 

 

A) They can't find the channelers they go looking for as "girls"

B) They can't survive the channelers they go looking for who are "male"

C) These two groups together with the Reds? "Necessity Spurs Invention". If all of your armies drop over dead from Saidin based heart attacks every time you go up against this collective? You'll soon figure out living armies are better than dead ones. 

 

The Dragon gets his peace, but ... differently.

 

The Pattern during the Ten Nations period of the Third Age would have probably resurrected the Age of Legends. Ala, White Bridge and so on. Different. More meta-city / fortress-city with legendary magics kind of thing. But with Elan running around at the tail end it dropped into a kind of rapid snapshot of humanity's many legends like it was trying to find a point of persistent order. By the time we get around to the ter'angrael visions it is done with "old legends" and is making a new stuff. Which is why all our old characters, but Olver and Brigette clock out. 

 

Even Rand I think will kind of Starbuck out at some point. Just some hoe resting on a fence when someone goes to find "the old guy" with his weird stories. 

[Bugglesley]

Now I know what Ayn Rand would have thought about Lanfear. Never thought I'd see a Lanfear: Objectivist Hero manifesto but here we are. 5/10 could have used more baffling asides that completely misunderstand what exactly "Marxism" means. I'm not a huge fan of the broader plot changes they made for the show, but I was still surprised to find that Nyneave being portrayed by a black actress and the plot being reconfigured to fit their budget, filming schedule, and cast size is one step away from mob-run public show trials of everyone with more than a 5th grade education! The more you know, I guess.

 

The Fourth Age preview is a truly kaleidoscopic mix of misunderstandings, baseless assumption, buried premises, complete misunderstandings of sociology and human nature, hyperfocus on particular characters while ignoring others (Great Man History), logic as tortured as any victim of Semirhage, and absolutely inexcusable Egwene hate (we're acting like she invented the 3 oaths now? She's more ruthless than literal, actual Daughter of the Night Moonhunter presumably did magic mega war crimes and tortured people on-page because they were romantically attached to the reincarnation of her ex Lanfear? Andor hasn't always just been 1:1 Fantasy England? The Kin will "vanish" into a fascistic society with damane sensing for the ability to channel at every checkpoint? There's an implication that Daoist magic is actually real for real life but saying so will mean they will come for you? The Pattern "molds" itself around the 100 companions and we can know this despite the fact that the text containing exactly nothing about any one of them? Despite a magisterial 14-part series illustrating how ). The deranged, weirdly detailed fantasies about the violence men can inflict on women, with and without the One Power, are the real icing on this particular cake.

 

In summary, I also got to learn today what someone with a WWG1WGA bumper sticker would write on Randland 8chan as soon as Lanfear (apparently) invents it before being taken down by the Light for having too much of a sigma hustle grindset for this world. What a time to be alive.