Javindhra

[Luckers]

Reputedly Javindhra is Elaida's pet. A sitter of the Red, and supposedly one of her staunchest supporters. Certainly she makes the appropriate gestures... forcing Tsutama to command her into not revealing the plan to bond Asha'man, and yet twice during the scene in Kod she displays pleasure at Elaida's misfortune... one, she sounds satisfied when saying that Dumai's Wells and the events at the Black Tower will come out, and she smiles when Tsutama commands her reguarding Elaida, though she tries to hide it.

 

So what is she up to. Here we have one of Elaida's only remaining followers displaying pleasure at her inevitable downfall. It strikes me that its possible that Javindhra is working in secret to bring Elaida down--note that shortly after that conversation what occurs at Dumai's Wells and the Black Tower DOES get out--though to be fair this became known to several sitters in several Ajah's.

 

Still, there is a mystery here. What does everyone else think?

[mikey sedai]

when i first read this passage, i noticed the same hidden pleasure.

 

but i also noticed alot of description of her clothes : 'red so dark it seemed black' (don't have my book to hand so have horribly misquoted)

 

i thought RJ was trying very hard to make her seem black.

 

i think she's a good candidate, along with the red sitter who's with elayne. the red ajah , as the largest in terms of numbers and power, seem a good candidate for black memebership, and the black would find it useful to have a controlling share.

[Luckers]

I concidered briefly that she might be mesanna, though in truth i dont think so. The fact that she took part in the bonding of Asha'man, and her reaction to Tsutama dont match.

 

She may be Black. Or else she may be a part of the Too Young Sitter conspiracy. A servant of the Ajah Heads, though Galina was never involved in that, and it strikes me as more then passing strange for a Red Sitter.

[mikey sedai]

what strikes you as strange? the fact that Sitters are controlled by the Ajah head?

 

IIRC Galina ruled the Red Ajah with a rod of iron, and Red Sitters never voted independantly, they always toed the party line.

[reyler]

The only thing I've ever thought enough about Javindhra to wonder is why she has a name that sounds Aiel. Though reading what's here, it almost sounds like she's a spare Alviarin.

[Luckers]

what strikes you as strange? the fact that Sitters are controlled by the Ajah head?

 

Edit: Sorry, i misread Mikey last night.

 

There when i spoke of the sitters and the Ajah Heads i was speaking of the Too Young Sitter Conspiracy... specifically that in both Halls of the Tower women have been raised (with the exception of Romanda) who are unsuitable to sit. In the White Tower it was instigated by the Ajah Heads, who pushed the selecting of sitters who were unsuitable, and in the Rebels it was pushed by five sitters. Magla, Varilin, Takima, Saroiya and Faiselle, representing all Ajahs but the Blue.

 

The idea in this theory is that when the Tower broke the Ajah heads tried to allow to it heal easily, sending those five to facilitate it by, in one part, selecting women to be sitter who could be easily dismissed without offense given so that the Hall could berejoined easily without sitters being unchaired. You'll also see those five pushing against events that antagonized the seperation... Romanda even notes that its almost as if they are arguing for Elaida.

 

I might post a full thread soon explaining it all... its been a while since anyone discussed it.

 

In relation to this thread i was noting that Javindrha's actions are very reminiscent of the five women in salidar, but that i didn't see her being one of the plotters because.. well, she's red.

[StudentJoe]

when i first read this passage' date=' i noticed the same hidden pleasure.

 

but i also noticed alot of description of her clothes : 'red so dark it seemed black' (don't have my book to hand so have horribly misquoted)

 

i thought RJ was trying very hard to make her seem black.

 

i think she's a good candidate, along with the red sitter who's with elayne. the red ajah , as the largest in terms of numbers and power, seem a good candidate for black memebership, and the black would find it useful to have a controlling share.[/quote']

 

 

we know for a fact that there is only 1 black red sister. a PoV from the head of the consoul said it, (i can never remember how to spell her name) former keeper in the tower, the white.

she comments on how she wished they had more amoung the red as there only memeber was now in captivity with the aiel.

[Infestra]

when i first read this passage' date=' i noticed the same hidden pleasure.

 

but i also noticed alot of description of her clothes : 'red so dark it seemed black' (don't have my book to hand so have horribly misquoted)

 

i thought RJ was trying very hard to make her seem black.

 

i think she's a good candidate, along with the red sitter who's with elayne. the red ajah , as the largest in terms of numbers and power, seem a good candidate for black memebership, and the black would find it useful to have a controlling share.[/quote']

 

 

She may be black, but I think it may also be personal ambition and how she can use the situation to her own favor.

 

 

we know for a fact that there is only 1 black red sister. a PoV from the head of the consoul said it' date=' (i can never remember how to spell her name) former keeper in the tower, the white.

she comments on how she wished they had more amoung the red as there only memeber was now in captivity with the aiel.[/quote']

 

I wouldn't necessarily say that. Even though Alviarin is on the supreme council she is not aware of all the black ajah. Secrecy and plotting is a natural part of being black.

 

Peace! Come to think of it, it's commonplace everywhere. :lol:

 

I don't have the quote but Alviarin was thinking to herself at one point that she wishes she knew of more black ajah within the tower after losing her position as Keeper. I believe that she may have only known of Galina within the red? Unless I'm forgetting someone else in the red she knew of?

[Beckon]

No Darkfriend knows more than a few others. Liandrin states at one point that she only knew one or two of the original 13 she left the tower with.

[Luckers]

we know for a fact that there is only 1 black red sister. a PoV from the head of the consoul said it, (i can never remember how to spell her name) former keeper in the tower, the white.

she comments on how she wished they had more amoung the red as there only memeber was now in captivity with the aiel.

 

 

Umm... no we don't. Of the sister we know that are black, three are of the Red. Galina Casben, Katerine Alruddin and Liandrin. Moreover, whilst Katerine was a captive of the Aiel for a time, and Galina is now, Alviarin knew about neither. Can you tell us where this quote is?

 

I don't have the quote but Alviarin was thinking to herself at one point that she wishes she knew of more black ajah within the tower after losing her position as Keeper. I believe that she may have only known of Galina within the red? Unless I'm forgetting someone else in the red she knew of?

 

No, Alviarin knows of all Black Ajah. Or intimates that she does in LoC, and certainly this is backed up when we see her planning the group who would assault the Black Tower.

[StudentJoe]

for got about them...which is strange pehaps Alviarin ment those currently in the tower....can't remember where Katerine is atm...but Liandrin is known to be black so she would no longer be consider red at all...she is also dead as far as any of them know.

[BrainFireBob]

It wasn't Alviarin, there's your confusion. It was Elza thinking about a white who'd sworn to Rand.

 

Alviarin knows every member of the Black, and only Alviarin does.

[Luckers]

Katerine is in the Tower. She is fequently one of Egwene's guards.

[StudentJoe]

ok now you have me doupting what i read im going to have to look it up...seems that always one of the secotions i pass over. after reading the first 5 or so times...

[mikey sedai]

Luckers, that's fine.

 

i did wonder about Javindhra and the Too Young Sitters, but i myself have discounted it. as far as i'm aware, the red ajah head isn't part of the conspiracy. and i'd assume she'd have a private meeting with her co-conspirator rather than such a semi public one. and surely she'd pick one better at hiding their emotions!

[BrainFireBob]

The Too Young Sitters don't contain any Reds- the members on the Rebel Hall were Sitters not informed of the vote to depose Elaida, probably sent away both for their safety and to make sure the rebels didn't do anything.

 

Those Aes Sedai insisted on women inappropriate being elected in both halls, and the ones with the rebels divided themselves between Romanda and Lelaine on all relevent votes to try and deadlock the Rebel hall- they've voted as a block three times I'm aware of: Over raising an Amyrlin, over declaring war on Elaida, and over opposing approaching the Black Tower- each time surprising their nominal allies, Romanda and Lelaine. They're supposed to be paralyzing the rebels, probably under the auspices of the Ajah heads, and they've seized control of negotiations at the river- perhaps now arguing in favor of deposing Elaida, over forcing a reconciliation with the Blues and Reds while retaining Elaida.

 

Hence the Ajah heads being so interested in breaking Egwene when she's captured- such as Adelorna and Faiselle.

 

Interestingly, this is the chink Egwene has exploited at least twice. The "old" Sitters don't consider the "young" sitters "real" sitters, and have concerned themselves with Lelaine and Romanda, the two personalities they think could really turn the rebellion into a conflict. Egwene turns the "too young" sitters into a voting block, large enough to sway most votes.

[Luckers]

The Too Young Sitters don't contain any Reds- the members on the Rebel Hall were Sitters not informed of the vote to depose Elaida, probably sent away both for their safety and to make sure the rebels didn't do anything.

 

Except Jenya. And yes, we know that about the Reds... I said i considered it briefly becuase Javindrha's actions mimic that of the Five Reunificationists in certain ways, but dismissed it because the Red were never involved in that plot.

 

Interestingly, this is the chink Egwene has exploited at least twice. The "old" Sitters don't consider the "young" sitters "real" sitters, and have concerned themselves with Lelaine and Romanda, the two personalities they think could really turn the rebellion into a conflict. Egwene turns the "too young" sitters into a voting block, large enough to sway most votes.

 

Indeed, i think its been good for the Rebels to have minds not completely set in their ways sitting the Hall.