^actually I view it the other way round...

 

Not sure about Leane, we don't have any pov's from her to know what she's thinking, but Siuane now seems to be happy with Gareth, not sure she now wants the extra responsibility that the old power gives her.

Agree with this conclusion. Not sure about the reasoning, but there is no way Siuan would subject Gareth to the impact of severing. We know that the bond is snapped when the bond holder is severed/gentled/stilled and know further that the specific reaction in the Warder differs. Siuan would not risk Gareth keeling over from the shock, or losing his mind and going into a death rage. Elaborate safeguards would need to be implemented to minimize the lesser uninted consequence and the risk of the greater could never be completly eliminated. No way Siuan agrees to this based on that reason alone.

Leann has not yet bonded a new Warder, at least not that we've seen. She would probably consider it and probably even go through with it in order to more effectively serve the Light in TG.

Graendal's Towers of Midnight epilogue scene; did Shaidar Haran do to her the same thing that he do to Mesaana or something else?

If something else, exactly what?

Not merely playing devil's advocate here, but it seems these three fallen Forsaken women have undergone increasing degrees of punishment. For Messi, a personal, shall we say degrading visit from Shadar to put her in her place for disobedience. But then she is free to act as she will (other than killing Alvi), provided she obeys SH and Ishydin. Moghedien was imprisoned in the vacuole, repeatedly visited by SH and then mindtrapped for Ishydin.

When SH visits Graendal, one of the things he says to her stands out to me, "But Graendal, you shall not be forgotten." SH licking his lips and reaching for her ends the scene. The above quote intimates, to me, that Shadar Haran killed Graendal as the culmination of his visit to her.

One of Semi, Mesaana, Dem surely has access to information about Rand from one of the DFs that have been close to him. The visible manifestations of his increasing madness had to have been noticeable to even the most casual observer. The readers have the benefit of Rand's PoV of course, but other characters would see his increasing tendency to mutter to himself. Everyone in the WoT knows men who channel go mad so spies would be looking for the signs. If you believe the DO's ultimate victory could only come after turning the DR, Rand's mental health would have been one of his primary concerns and any signs of weakness would have been strenuously sought.

 

None of which explains Semirhage's specific knowledge. Only the abstract knowledge provided by Graendal of others with Rand's condition could have provided that.

 

 

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means. Without the decent into madness, Rand would never have thought he heard a voice. "Reintegration" would never have been necessary because the disintegration would not have occurred. LTT's memories and personality would have been a welcomed part of RaT from the start. The ta'ver'en, the most important one produced in the Third Age in order to ensure the continuity of the Wheel of Time, would not have been gestated with an inherent design flaw. Absent the taint (direct intervention by the DO) Rand Therin would have emerged earlier and with much less of a chance of the DO's victory.

 

Actually, you got that backward. Without the taint Rand would not have heard Lews Therin's voice. Without the manifestation of Lews Therin Rand would not have needed reintegration.

That's why I specifically utilized "Rand Therin" not RaT or LTT.

IMO, the DR's understanding/emergence would have occurred seamlessly and nearly contemperaneously with each other if not for the taint. In a taint-free turning, when the DRs memories would have begun to emerge, the "wisdom" to deal with it would have emerged as well. What happened in the story's particular turning would not have happened but for the taint

That being said, any instance where Rand faced the voice would have resulted in both disintegration and the need for reintegration. There is not situation in which the manifestation of Lews Therin would be welcomed without the resultant potential decent into madness.

Is that from an interview or notes or something?

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

 

Just because LTT said remembered(?) she rarely lied, I for one, will not automaticallu believe her every word. "Rarely" leaves a good bit of wiggle room in the Last Days. Plus, who knows how far to credit LTT's commentary re: the character of the people around Rand? LTT was kind of correct about Verin, but not really accurate about Cads at all. And talk about missing the boat on Weiramon...bad, bad, bad; though fortunately not a fatal mistake.

 

Except every verifiable part of her comment proved to be true--including things she could have no way of knowing absent an abstract scientific understanding of people with Rand's condition [as she stated was provided by Graendal]. Which means that if she lied, she did so with magical specificity. And hey, who knows, maybe Semirhage did have some sort of Talent for knowing what other people can confirm, and that this is the reason Lews Therin thinks she lies rarely... because her Talent keeps her from being caught out.

 

Or, you know, she told the truth.

One of Semi, Mesaana, Dem surely has access to information about Rand from one of the DFs that have been close to him. The visible manifestations of his increasing madness had to have been noticeable to even the most casual observer. The readers have the benefit of Rand's PoV of course, but other characters would see his increasing tendency to mutter to himself. Everyone in the WoT knows men who channel go mad so spies would be looking for the signs. If you believe the DO's ultimate victory could only come after turning the DR, Rand's mental health would have been one of his primary concerns and any signs of weakness would have been strenuously sought.

Hard for me to know what "the voice is real" means. Without the decent into madness, Rand would never have thought he heard a voice. "Reintegration" would never have been necessary because the disintegration would not have occurred. LTT's memories and personality would have been a welcomed part of RaT from the start. The ta'ver'en, the most important one produced in the Third Age in order to ensure the continuity of the Wheel of Time, would not have been gestated with an inherent design flaw. Absent the taint (direct intervention by the DO) Rand Therin would have emerged earlier and with much less of a chance of the DO's victory.

1. LTT was never in Rand's head. As Rand said he wasn't "real" and never had been.

 

Actually, Rand states they were not two different men, and never had been, which is entirely true. They were two different facet personalities in the same manner as, say, Maerion, Taedra and Joana are each seperate distinct personalities, but still manifestations of the same woman.

 

Brandon has confirmed that Rand's comment is not indicative either way of the realness of the Lews Therin manifestation. Semirhage, on the other, definately did comment on on the realness of it, stating that the voice was real--the voice, not the memories which inform the voice, as the Construct Theory argues. She states the voice itself is real. This of course makes it no less a form of insanity, as the manifestation of another facet personality definately does interfere with a persons mental stability (as we witness with Rand).

Just because LTT said remembered(?) she rarely lied, I for one, will not automaticallu believe her every word. "Rarely" leaves a good bit of wiggle room in the Last Days. Plus, who knows how far to credit LTT's commentary re: the character of the people around Rand? LTT was kind of correct about Verin, but not really accurate about Cads at all. And talk about missing the boat on Weiramon...bad, bad, bad; though fortunately not a fatal mistake.

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

 

TGH onwards, and at Malden itself, Masema's seen the TR boys using the longbow multiple times. He's even commented on it iirc in TGH.

Also he's nuts - not stupid.

Yeah I know he has seen the TR longbowmen previously, but during the scene when he's finally put to rest, he had not seen anyone but Faile when he called out her name. Masema was surprised when his followers pulled up short and then he saw the bowmen back in the trees. When he called her name, he had only seen her.

Also, do we know TR men were involved with that execution or was it only Cha Faile?

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

 

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

 

With all the time Aram spent with Masema, and knowing that Aram all but worships her, wouldn't they have found a few minutes to talk about Faile?

Probably, but I doubt the Prophet would have wanted to be to forward and risk Aram choosing between his loyalties. It's one thing to say "hey, Yelloweyes is eeeevillll and you must rescue the fair maiden" compared to "what nationality is the fair maiden and how might I recognize her at first sight?" Agreed he probably knew she was Saldean and likely recognized the figure in the meadow as a Saldean at first sight, but still a little wiggle room .... right?

Just a thought.

Saldeans have one unusual racial feature -"uptilted" eyes.

Another thought. Borderlanders fight and trade together. across all the kingdoms

Masema may have seen a fair number of random Saldeans.

(Even Flynn who isn''t Borderland has met a few "in his time")

He may even know the accent - think of the PoV of the Malkieri jeweller - there are differences in Borderlander accents

He's very likely to have seen them if he fought at the Bloodsnow and he's definitely old enough to have been there.

He would know that Perrin is married to a Saldean.

Now he sees a Saldean woman (*uptilted eyes, accent) in command of a bunch of Two Rivers bowmen (and yes, he does know TR bowmen for sure)

He jumps to a conclusion which happens to be correct.

Nice, He hadn't yet seen the bowmen IIRC, but the rest presents a pretty good argument as long as he does know she is Saldean. Probable that he does but not explicit. Still pretty swift for an accurate deduction by a veritable madman. My hopes for an elaborate backstory on this one are dwindling.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

 

Informed him of stuff like what?

 

Her description. After all we have seen forsaken channel images at the BA social correct?

So are you contending one of the Forsaken met with Masema and channeled an image of Faile for him to recognize? Or that one of the AS is capable thereof and did so on direction of said Forsaken? I know we've seen Ishy-din manifest their image in T'a'R to other friends of the dark and more recently present such an image to other Chosen in his palace in the Blight.

Could have been part of a Forsaken plot to weaken Perrin, in which case Masema's recognition is a clue and not a mistake. Hope we get some more clarity in AMoL.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

 

Masesam (sic) was Shienaran. A run of the mill soldier of the most eastern of the Borderlands. The only clues as to his prior service I can recall relate to skirmishes against the Aiel in the Eastern Marches. Is there something in the text to support your conjecture that he has been to Saldea, the westernmost of the Borderlands?

 

Faile's recollections on her youth do not indicate she has travelled to Shienar. Indeed, from her thoughts she was being trained to as head of the Bashere household in terms of administering the estate, not preparing for life as a courtesan. Her departure and subsequent swearing as a Hunter was initially motivated because until that point in her life she was fulfilling her predetermined role unwaveringly and succesfully, as expected of her. No mention of accross the continent travel for "some ceremony or something."

 

Portraits of her around? Really? Care to provide the slightest scrap of support for the contention that personal portraits of non-Monarchs are prevalent in the series? Heck, even portraits of Monarchs have never been mentioned outside their own palace. Oh wait, how could I have forgotten her Facebook page? Silly me.

 

That was a whole lot of sarcasm in one post.

 

Anyway, from her own recollections we know before her brothers died she wasn't trained in running the household. Actually portraits aren't mentioned in the stories much, aside from the Queen portraits and such, but that doesn't mean we assume they aren't there. We do know the Borderlander rulers were close, as seen in the last few books, intermarriage was common, thus it can easily be assumed they traveled around a lot for functions. Masema was just a soldier yes, but he close personal access to his Lord and was probably a member of his retinue when he traveled abroad. In other words, it's not a real stretch of the imagination to figure out how he would know her face.

 

Hell, look at how many people knew a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar). And that was just from a description. Morgase managed to know what she looked like.

Funny, most of that post was not sarcastic, thought I did well at reining in the worst.

Faile was like 16 when she left Saldea, she didn't do much of anything before her brothers died. No one that would be privy to such knowledge has mentioned anything to support she was considered for potential marriage before leaving Saldea. Given the gist of her (and Perrin's) interaction with Davram and Deira in Caemlyn it would have been raised. That whole interaction between the two Bashere women was because Faile had not previously been determined old enough to marry so it's not like her parents were parading her from World's End to Tarwin's Gap trying to find a mate.

The examples of political intermarriage between Borderland ruler families seem to stand out as exceptions rather than the rule. Ethenielle thinks of the pairings distinctly, not in a way that infers they were commonplace. Before Travelling had been rediscovered, the geographic realities of the Borderlands likely inhibited much travelling about for purely functionary purposes. All of which, while restrictive to the possibilites we can imagine as probabilities within the WoT world, are really beside the point as to whether Masema would have personally encountered Faile.

Which Lord did Masema have close personal contact with in the series? Not Agelmar. Not Ingtar. Certainly not Easar. There is not any support in the books for this conjecture, none.

How many people did know a description of Amara (The Partarch or what not of Tarbonar) (sic)? Other than Morgase can you give an example from the books of someone who recognizes Amathera from a description? I don't think the text supports your contention for any character in the books at all, much less another example for Amathera. Perhaps you are conflating the Aiel questioning Galina regarding Alliandre's identity with someone else recognizing Amathera from a description. Or maybe when Berelain is spoken about by Cadsuane. It's easy to get confused if you can't keep the names straight.

Not really comparable circumstances regadless. Morgase, as Queen of Andor, was probably well informed regarding the members of potential ruling families when compared to a random soldier in the Shienarin heavy cavalry. Morgase's recognition of Amathera was not instantaneous either and required several prompts by Suroth, including mentions of her new name (Thera) with an emphasis designed to draw Morgase's attention.

You can choose to imagine anything you want. When you choose to address the message board and make spurious claims that lack support from the books, sarcasm is not the worst response you might expect.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

 

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

 

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

my point is that the AS kept going into masemas camp to meet with him, and that they could have informed him of stuff like that, in effect being masemas handlers

Informed him of stuff like what?

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Wait. Umm Wasn't Masesam a borderlander? And Faile from another borderlander royal family. I'm fairly certain if there aren't portraits of her around, he's been to that kingdom and perhaps seen her in a cermony or something. She was cousin to the queen and 3rd in line for the throne.

Masesam (sic) was Shienaran. A run of the mill soldier of the most eastern of the Borderlands. The only clues as to his prior service I can recall relate to skirmishes against the Aiel in the Eastern Marches. Is there something in the text to support your conjecture that he has been to Saldea, the westernmost of the Borderlands?

Faile's recollections on her youth do not indicate she has travelled to Shienar. Indeed, from her thoughts she was being trained to as head of the Bashere household in terms of administering the estate, not preparing for life as a courtesan. Her departure and subsequent swearing as a Hunter was initially motivated because until that point in her life she was fulfilling her predetermined role unwaveringly and succesfully, as expected of her. No mention of accross the continent travel for "some ceremony or something."

Portraits of her around? Really? Care to provide the slightest scrap of support for the contention that personal portraits of non-Monarchs are prevalent in the series? Heck, even portraits of Monarchs have never been mentioned outside their own palace. Oh wait, how could I have forgotten her Facebook page? Silly me.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

I think masema wasn't such a huge fool to not know everything about Perrin that there is to know before plotting against him. The Aes Sedai travelling with Perrin, at least one is BA (and possibly the shiny dragon, since the response to a question was (in effect), why do you think 'he' was male). And they where meeting with Masema, who hates the OP except when the 'dragon' uses it

Not really sure of the point you are making in this post. Undoubtedly, Masema would know the name and that "Faile" is Perrin's wife. Are you suggesting Masema himself went and spied Perrin's camp before their first personal encounter? If not, how would any of that impact Masema's ability to instantly recognize the woman stepping into the clearing as Perrin's wife?

I hope you are on to something, I want it to be a clue as to Masema's behind the scenes wheelings and dealings.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

 

I'm guessing mistake. Even if he'd seen her at a distance in Malden its weird.

 

Aram could have easily described her to him. And her description (and that of Alliandre and other) could have been distributed prior to the battle so that she won't be killed by "friendly fire."

Have to think all of the gai'shan were to be considered off-limits to Perrin's forces. Perrin has not revealed any skill at drawing or sketching, so unless one of the channelers saidared or saidined drawings for him...... It's possible an oral description would prove sufficient to prompt Masema's recognition, I guess.

How did Masema recognize Faile before she and Cha Faile put an end to him in TGS? I do not recall them meeting previously or any reference to the two of them having met before his conversion to the Prophet but when she step into the clearing Masema knows her name. Is this a mistake or a clue as to something else going on behind the scenes? Maybe insight as to Masema's reasons for wanting to stay in the West rather than heading directly to Rand? Grasping at straws but it really stuck out in the latest read.

Covril, Haman intend to speak at the Stump, they've not yet gone there.

We know they were looking for Loial since LoC.

Are you sure they didn't do a stopover quick-chat along the way to Algarin's? Seems I remember some chit chat just before the attack on the manor indicating Corvril had expected to quickly sway a decision to open the Book of Translation so they stopped in for a bit. I think Haman spoke as well, though even more briefly and not as effectively. Maybe I'm wrong, will check when I get a chance.

Algiarin has Ogier rooms so he is a known stopover for Ogier in the vicinity in that sense.

Loial wandering around various stedding would have raised waves of some description in Ogier society.

When the three arrived at Algiarin's manor, (maybe semi-accidentally) they would have learnt the Dragon Reborn and various people including one ogier was there...

Reasonably logical, though not necessarily correct -I don't think you'll get a clear explanation.

Yeah the semi-accidentally, ta'veren-driven, reason is something I was hoping to supersede. Oh well. Thanks for the input.

He'd been wandering around with Karldin visiting various stedding. So they must have triangulated inside a likely region and asked around? I don't recall if there was an explanation in the text.

No explanation - later in the text we learn that Covril had insisted they go to the Great Stump and after speaking there, were on their way to Shangtai IIRC. Algarin's isn't too far from Shangtai relatively speaking, but no explanation is given for why they would go there. It could be far enough east to be a sort of renowned stopover for Ogier on their way to the Stedding I guess, but no such reference is made anywhere in the books. Just a curiosity at this point, don't think it has any real significance, like a potential for DF Ogier.

Question - how did Erith, Haman and Covril find Loail at Algarin's manor house?

Killing the weaver normally doesn't remove Compulsion. Using enough balefire to kill the weaver so that the weaver's thread is removed from the Pattern before the Compulsion is woven, does remove Compulsion.

Example 1: Morgause is still under Compulsion from Rahvin even though Rahvin died of balefire because Rahvin had imposed Compulsion on Morgause many months before Rand balefired Rahvin and Rand's balefire couldn't reach back that far.

Example 2: Balefiring Delana and Halima did remove Ramshalam's Compulsion because Rand could balefire their threads back till a time before the Compulsion was imposed.

This issue has been squirreling around in the back of mind for a while now. Please consider the following (and also excuse the lack of specific quotes at the moment):

- we've scene evidence that a strong will/sense of self will cause the Compulsee (i.e. Morgase) to struggle against the Compulsion without even being aware they are doing so

- over time, at least with a person similar to Morgase, the effects of the Compulsion wane and the person's efforts toward freedom from the weave grow more successful

- since Rahvin overcomes Morgase's resistance when she first learns of rebellion in the TR, we know the Compulsor (i.e. Rahvin) can A. tweak the Compulsion (like an AS does to the Warder bond), B. give an existing Compulsion a re-charge or, C. overlay a temporary Compulsion on existing weaves without removing the original Compulsion

- realistically, the Compulsor could use the weave to induce an overarching modus operandi from the Compulsee rather than a specific action at a particular point in time - "You will obey me from now on" - and probably happens often

So, it seems like the death of the Compulsor would at least have some impact on the effectiveness of any particular on-going Compulsion that they had previously woven. Further, the "wording" of any particular Compulsion may render itself moot if the Compulsor dies and the Compulsee is convinced of it. What if Rahvin had lain a specific Compulsion on Nynaeve (just imagine it) to the effect of "meet me in x-days in the throne room of the Caemlyn palace." Two days before the meeting, Nyn sees Rand balefire Rahvin. Will Nyn then be Compulsed to go to the throne room on that day? When the time comes, will she balefire herself to try to "meet" Rahvin? Extending that line of thinking to a pre-mortum Compulsion of "you will obey me" makes me wonder.

Those questions intrigue me, discussion/thoughts/counterpoints/answers most welcome.