There are some things you can only do at Shayol Ghul...

Or another ter'angreal of the White Tower was used.

Ok, so the Black sisters swear on the Oath Rod? Because going by what Verin says to Egwene in TGS, she does not seem certain that using the Oath Rod will remove her oaths to the Dark One, "then see if I could use it to remove the Great Lords oaths."

There are two different sets of oaths: there are three oaths on the Oath Rod for the Black Ajah, so that their lifespan is the same as for regular Aes Sedai.

But there are also oaths taken at Shayol Ghul by every Darkfriend. And those are the oaths Verin isn't sure of she could foreswear.

Yes he did, as was said before. What's there to say warding one's mind needn't be kin to Compulsion? That would seem reasonable enough to me.

Except warding is always against something from the outside. This is to keep something in, not to keep something out.

Okay, I will put it differently: BS said that weave and Compulsion are cousins.

When you ward your dreams you ward it against intrusion.

It looks strongly like Compulsion, but that is something the AS won´t accept. Using the word ´warding´ makes it more acceptable.

You've made me reconsider this. The logic seems reasonable.

 

Yay! It was on the list of MAFOs I originally sent to Maria.

 

Is it some kind of Compulsion that's used to help the Accepted remember their test and the six-pointed star in the Test for the Shawl? Rereading Moiraine's Test in New Spring gave me that feeling.

 

I asked Brandon about that.

Thanks! What struck me as well. was that Verin was at that particular Test. She might have used this particular Compulsion with others to create her own version.

@yoniy0: it's not a ward. A ward is to protect oneself or an item against theft or trespassing. Like the Ward Moiraine used in Shadar Logoth which gave birdsounds or the rather nasty wards Rand placed on Callandor or Shadar Logoth. This weave places an instruction on the subject: "Remember this Test, then and then you may weave, go to the six-pointed star". When Moiraine goes through the ring, she forgets everything. When she sees the star, she knows exactly that which was instructed.

Is it some kind of Compulsion that's used to help the Accepted remember their test and the six-pointed star in the Test for the Shawl? Rereading Moiraine's Test in New Spring gave me that feeling.

She should have felt something was very much wrong. Unless Mesaana used an inverted weave to dampen the warder bond (which would be strange, the Forsaken didn't understand the bond), it must me a mistake from RJ.

Sylvie was Lanfear.

I don't have the book handy but I thought it was Elida that went to question her about what min and gawin talked about.

No way. Elaida interrogating a novice and killing her (with the One Power) afterwards. That was definitely BA or Mesaana. I don't think Mesaana would get her hands dirty in this, so probably BA.

The whole Shaidar Haran 0.5 thing, is that of the Dark One, or is it of Jordan?

It's a term Jordan used to describe the smiling Fade visiting Bors (and others); it was an early version of what was to become Shaidar Haran. I think that if he was to write those scenes now, he would have replaced the strange smiling Fade with Shaidar Haran.

We haven't read about the sickness anymore, but haven't read that Rand noticed it was gone either.

But I believe the sickness and most of the nausea went away after the Cleansing. You may correct me if I'm wrong. The only nausea that seemed to have stayed is due to his connection to Moridin.

Not sure about the Talisman of Growing being pre-Breaking.

I take each terangreal would need to be altered to include the new function. Not sure whether any terangreal could be altered. Closest cases of terangreal becoming altered seem to be terangreal malfunctioning; Egwene's test to become Accepted, Aviendha's glass columns experience.

And if the Talisman of Growing had any other function, I would guess those functions would have been discoveered by now and recorded in the books.

We know that the Oath Rod was actually a Binding Rod. It was not used to create trust, but to bind those who couldn't be trusted.

We know that the ter'angreal used for the Accepted's Test has more to do with TAR than with testing someone.

We know that Callandor is made for more than just killing a Forsaken

Here's a Talisman of Growing. What if it's purpose is not growing the Ways, but that that's just one example of growing it can induce? Could it be used to grow more things than the Ways? It might not be coincedence that it was found in Ebou Dar. It might still have a purpose in AMoL. Like restoring the world after TG. If only they knew of the right song...

Didn't Liandrin say in TGH that she could protect herself in the Ways? Was she just lying or did she think she could, or do Shadow-trained channelers actually have a method to protect themselves? Verin didn't seem very happy about it, also in TGH and neither did Moiraine in TEotW?

she lied.

They couldn't.

But AOL Aes Sedai could. And as I said, it could be pre-breaking with a different use.

The Ways were made during the Breaking as a token of thanks to the Ogier who gave the male channelers sanctuary from tainted saidin. They didn't exist before then.

I'm actually more curious of whether the Talisman of Growing is pre-, peri- or post-breaking.

Therefore, something that was made just to create Ways must have been created post breaking, and it definitely was not created post cleansing.

That's not necessarily true. It might be that the Talisman is something pre-breaking and was used to do something else. It could even be that different songs make the Talisman of Growing do different things. Like growing Chora trees, healing the Bore or creating a means of transportation.

Can someone give me a quote whether the Talismans were created by the same male Aes Sedai that gave them to the Ogier?

Because the Ways might as well been a meaning of transport before Travelling was discovered.

I know creating new Ways would probably connect them to the existing Ways. I'm stating a hypothesis that if one were to create a separate Ways, it would be clean and stay clean.

I have thought about it some more and this is what I think:

The Talisman of Growing is a ter'angreal that uses Saidin and might also use Saidar, but we don't know that. The Dutch translation calls them the 'Saidinwegen' (Saidinways); if that name was given with consent of RJ, then the Talisman probably uses only Saidin. The Talisman might be made before the breaking or after, but we know it uses at least Saidin and it's the state of Saidin that's important. It probably uses huge amounts of Saidin and that makes it vulnarable. The Taint is not in the Saidin used, but travels along. And when it's brought in the Ways by Saidin, it has nowhere to go and stays in and has it's effect in corrupting the Ways (and probably creating Machin Shin).

My theory is that if an Ogier were to use the Talisman to create new Ways, seperate from the existing Ways, it wouldn't get corrupted. This is because the corruption happened because the Saidin it used was tainted, not because the Talisman was created with tainted Saidin (it might even be made pre-breaking). If you use the Talisman to create a new Waygate to the Ways, you get a uncorrupted entry to the Ways, which will be corrupted by the Ways over time.

A valid theory, however, we have this, and other clarifications.

 

INTERVIEW: Sep 2nd, 2005

DragonCon Report - Isabel (Paraphrased)

 

QUESTION

Someone had a question about Machin Shin in the Ways. Since it seems to absorb the creatures that pass through there, could you regard it as a servant of the Dark One or perhaps almost as a Forsaken?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

It's not a servant of the Dark One. It will kill Trollocs or anything else. You can say it's a parasite that grew in the Ways because of the taint and the One Power that was used to initially create the Ways. The talisman of growing that was used to extend the Ways. So it's not a servant of the Dark One, but it's definitely on the evil side.

 

QUESTION

Would it be cleaned with the Cleansing of saidin?

 

ROBERT JORDAN

No. Its like a bacteria breed. Just by cleaning up the chemicals that caused the bacteria to come into existence, unless it's feeding on that, those chemicals, you are not going to destroy the bacteria. You simply cut off what helped to create it.

 

Do the "chemicals" factor in anything that was channeled out of Saidin? If Neald used his power to make power items pre-cleansing, would they corrupt over time?

I think it depends on what is done and how. I think that the Ways somehow used standing weaves of saidin, making it possible for the Taint to enter the Ways. If the power-wrought item had standing weaves, it would be corrupted over time. If saidin is only used to create it without standing weaves, that corruption wouldn't happen.

I doubt it; they were healed, so there is nothing left to heal.

What might be more interesting: what if they were stilled again and then healed by Flinn? I think they would be restored to their original strengths.

No he dies not, he still thinks that Tuon is the Daughter of the Nine Moons.

I think he learned about this at the end of Knife of Dreams. It's possible he doesn't know that Tuon is now Empress Fortuona, but he knows what happened to her family.

yes, and they changed the law immediately after that. A Dutch prince on the throne of England wasn't exactly what the English wanted. Especially not because England and the Netherlands have fought some (sea)wars in those days.

I still think it's funny that we had a Dutch prince on the English throne. Almost happened a second time, when William II, heir to the Dutch throne was engaged with the English princess.

(we had 5 Williams' as 'stadhouder' a hereditary title, closer to that of president than that of king. After Napoleon and the French occupation of the Netherlands the sixth was crowned as the first Dutch King and was named William I; we started counting from the beginning again.)

You may come with examples.

This is simply how it works.

He can't hold the throne without Faile. He will be King with Faile as Queen.

At least as long monarchy in WOT works as in real life.