I finally got a chance to read New Spring, after finishing the series. RJ covers some of this, either intentionally or not, and it helps add some background as far as where the Aes Sedai are at. Their numbers were dawdling and that was alarming 20 years before the main books, and Suian was pretty young when she was elevated to lead them. So in the grand sense of things Egwene makes sense. Fwiw on that note, I really suggest reading New Spring earlier or at least when it was published. If anything it gives a background to some of the slop books.

So I finished the series last week. I don't have a blog or podcast so this will kind of be my parting thoughts before I move on to a few other books and tbd series. I don't really think I'll go too deep here. It's also a old series at this point so although I'm not going to try and spoil anything, but at the same time to me the journey and reading the story is more important than what happens. I ended up reading New Spring last. Not that this is wrong, but I really think this should be read earlier. It could fit in anywhere in the "slog" after book 4 or 5 or so (my memory is fuzzy of any specifics), and it would do well reading in the position it was published. At least read it before getting to the B. Sanderson books. I say this because it's a self contained story that doesn't really have anything epic happen. Which is fine, but I'd rather end the whole series on a first read after the last battle and Rand trotting away, than on New Spring. It wouldn't make sense reading first though, but I don't think it's worth saving. It also doesn't (to me) give anything away or any insight that we didn't already have. I have a new view on the Horn, and what Ta'veren are. It was interesting to read the interaction between Mat and the heroes of the horn. They said he wasn't a part of the heroes, and although these books generally aren't that deep, it is an interesting reason why. He needed to be attached to the horn, Perrin needed to lead the wolves, and Rand needed to be the Dragon. They are as attached to the horn as the heroes in the pattern. I also think ta'veren are related to this as well, and it kind of answers my question as far as why no one else was ta'veren when labeling them as such would make sense given their accelerated storyline. To me Callandor makes sense. It didn't for a while, but then, of all places, I heard R. Jordan talk about how he approached myths and legends and what if explicit instructions or details of events turn into these stories. Way back when, they knew how to resolve the issue, I'd even argue that as this has happened over and over the same conclusion was found over and over, but either way they had a plan. They just didn't get along well enough to accomplish the plan, and we even saw some of that in our story. So yeah, that was the plan all along, but no one had a chance to do it earlier. Rand lighting his pipe makes sense now. He was doing somethings outside of the powers and channeling in the last books, but he also was doing it earlier on. He urged Bella on, and at that time it's not described how he did it, where as Moraine using the power was described as such (if I recall correctly) even earlier on. So to some extent Rand had a pull on the pattern, and he only realized how to use that later on. I'd then have to assume he got burnt out with the power, or with the body switch, but I'm fine with that and I'm fine with the ending. I can't believe I'm saying this, because I would have cut this character out after book 2, but I liked what Padan Fain ended up doing in the last battle. I'll mention B. Sanderson doing a 4th book later, but I thought what he was doing and how the mist was appearing again was neat. It would have been nice to read more of a setup, and maybe throughout the books take that arc of him rather than the political stuff he was doing. Then finally, B. Sanderson takes a little bit to get into the characters and I think the last books are great. I do wish in a way he and they did a 4th book and took the time to explain or setup a little more. But, and he has said this in interviews, it's long already and where do you draw the line. Anyway I can't wait to re-read this again in a few years, I'm getting the leatherbound series and that will be fun to collect. I also can't wait to give more time to the slop books and get into all those small details from the world - now that I know how the story ends and how events unfold. So to any readers on the fence, if they got this far with this post, stick with it, and at least I felt it was rewarding. Now off onto the next reading adventures!

Well and I get my answer after watching Brandons interview "Secrets! A Memory of Light with Brandon Sanderson | 10th Anniversary Livestream MAJOR SPOILERS" Seems like he wanted her to go through again and see the future, and that "that" future didn't happen since she heeded the warnings. Sometimes things aren't as deep as they seem, and this was one of them.

Partly why I say what I do is from watching videos like this with Brandon "Secrets! A Memory of Light with Brandon Sanderson | 10th Anniversary Livestream MAJOR SPOILERS". Rewatching it last night, Brandon said that RJ had the ending in mind almost from the start or shortly after the first two books, and then worked to get there. He also said that his 3 books could have been 4 or 5... So yeah, those middle books are RJ just trying to put everything into place and trying to somehow get there. Easy to apply hindsight, and maybe easy enough (not counting his health) to make the same comments in real time with those books, but I think they would be a little different if he had a chance to go back with a completed series and rewrite some of them. Then too, I'm actually looking forward to those dull books when I do a reread. I already know the action, so it may be interesting to see if I can sink back into the day to day soap opera that he has going, and enjoy all the details along with it. Knowing where everything ends up and the timeframe that it ends in.

I can see why RJ set things up the way he did, then how Sanderson wrapped it up. It just seemed RJ didn't know how he wanted to get there, and yeah, those chapters and that journey took way way longer than it really needed to.

Kind of in hindsight as far as how I'm almost finished with the books. None of the prophecy makes sense. I mean maybe, as you said, if they were using these tools, but then why wouldn't they have written it down? Then with Rands memories, he would have been the start of some of these prophecies, but doesn't know a different way to close the prison off the bat? Callendar (spelling?) being created, but no one thought of at the time for how it "needs" to be used, but created it anyway? It's just all covenant, and kind of plot armor in a way. Don't get me wrong, I still like the story, but as I've said before here a few times it just doesn't go that deep and it's best taken as a daily soap opera or something than a complete tight story.

Honestly though, this is something RJ does well in the books. I think it helps that we got to see Mat getting his prophecy and abilities, so we know what others may have got as far as answers. So I don't mind that part at all.

Well and it goes back to my rant or soapbox about it not really being a tight story with any deep background. RJ just seems to have a good idea, writes it in the story, and then sometimes we don't hear about it again or it is covered for somehow in a way. I don't mind it, but it does bring up interesting questions sometimes.

Well just the whole lack of urgency between she disappears, to when they finally gear up and go to rescue her. It seems years, at least to me, to the point where I don't know why or remember why Mat feels any connection with her. The character of Mat being Mat and not wanting to read that letter (and another one later iirc) is different.

It may have been explained in a later book too, but my take on it from that is this is kind of a mirror of the TEL dream world with somewhat the same rules. We also get to see a description of a similar terangereal type thing in later books, and it turns out (iirc) that it's something completely different and/or way more complex. So who knows what it is, if it's another whole world like TEL that others can be in, or if it's limited to the single person and whatever sceneros are given to them, or what. But no, not real. Also, don't they wash the person and tell them to forget what happened and don't tell anyone? So it'd make sense that it's not real, and not telling of the future or anything, it just is what it is for whatever test the person is going through.

That's as good of an answer as any. Kind of goes along with the "it's evil to go fully into TEL dream world" but never really explaining why - although that also came from Rand and his greater memories, so it's "older" than whatever with the columns.

Some of their story was pretty fun, or how they happened into eachother and then escaped. But yeah mostly agree. The letter didn't make sense to me, as well as when Moraine comes back. She had been gone for what seemed to be so long, without (at least to me) a sense of time of how long she was actually one, that her coming back and that letter just seemed out of place. I do get where RJ and BS were going with that, and I like the concept of Mat going back to get her and how he was setup for it. But, like a lot with this story, the timing and lack of urgency or a sense of time is way off. I mean, if I recall somewhat correctly, the last 3 books happen over a month or two with the 1 month deadline happening soon once the BS books start. So what you're reading can only be a handful of months away from the end, and RJ just never gives a sense of that.

In the last book I think, finally, that Brandon Sanderson got a hold of that concept. However, it would have made more sense tying it into "the old blood" and having some of the girls share that. It seems he wanted some concept for those who can't channel to have some kind of powers, or who would be re-woven into the weave at times. It just gets much with all that's going on.

I watched a lot of his talks and lectures online a few months ago. It was interesting getting his perspective as a very successful author, we're about the same age, and he seems pretty personable. Anyway, I think he basically said as much as far as it being about marketing. There is more to it as far as writing style and stuff, but if it's on the border it can go both ways. Which makes sense, authors, publishers, stores need to make money.

So I got to that part last night, started thinking about it, and I have some questions and thoughts. Why was it prohibited to go through a 2nd time? So this would have been a thing after the breaking of the world, and after the Aiel would have settled down there. I can't remember if the columns were what they were safekeeping in their exile, or if they were just there and then the city built around them, or if the whole thing was just there and the Aiel found it. Point being though they were in the service to the Aes Sedai before the bore hold and before the breaking, and I'm assuming at that point that the glass columns weren't a thing. So who did it twice and what was the story? I'm assuming they were already in exile, so it wouldn't have been seeing them go into the waste and living there. I don't think anything was eluded to in their past as far as any other large disaster. I'd assume then if it was just "you'd see your future" that it would just be a warning of just that, and not a blanket only go through once. I'd also assume, since if it was that disastrous, and came true, that there would have been legends about it passed down that would have turned into prophecy. Kind of like when the men go through it, they see a shared or similar vision of the past and can confirm it later. So I just don't know what the warning was about, why it would have been there, and what to think about what she saw. I do find it perplexing that she makes a comment or the book says "she is disappointed because she knew what she would see". Then she finds it more complex than she thought from touching it, and it showed her something she didn't expect or didn't want to see. Going through a 2nd time then also showed her something she didn't expect and didn't want to see. So maybe having a clear mind and not knowing what to expect is to then get what's expected? Dunno. It does have similarities with Nynaeve going through her test for the shawl, in that she was pretty powerful and knowledgeable at that point. It also gets back to Mat asking more questions than he should have, or even going back to the tower of Ghenje to rescue Moiraine. Then maybe it is the truth, and we're just seeing everything setup for the Seanchan to take over. But, that's depressing, and not the way everything else is being setup, and if that's the case why write the story in the perspectives we have. It's just a story, I don't care, but it's depressing. It also doesn't make sense, because the Aiel seemed to be pretty status quo once they settled in exile, and what could have been seen, and come true, to prohibit a 2nd trip. Then finally, although not a deep book spiritually there are some Biblical references here and there. Moses striking the rock a 2nd time had the consequence that none of them could see the promised land. Since this was in reference to the Messiah being pierced a single time, rather than twice. Moses screwed that up, and paid a price for it. So this whole thing could just be that, but it seemed more a warning than a command. Anyway, I'm sorry that's long, it was just an interesting question. Maybe it's simple, or maybe it's explained in the rest of this book or the next or the prequel. I didn't search for it, more in a writing mood this morning than reading, but if it's been answered before I'd be more than happy to read those threads.