He's not initially shown as doing anything evil, but he is going to murder Moiraine and even his mother if she gets in the way. I think most people consider that evil. His was just well disguised.

It was obvious the bracelet is significant, but I couldn't read any inscription. What did it say?

I have not seen this mentioned anywhere else, and I don't understand what DOOL moment you're referring to. Could you please elaborate?

How else do you think Siuan could have handled it, given her goal was to keep Egwene in the Tower because she didn't want to lose such a powerful channeler? I'm just curious. It's established in S2 that novices can't just leave the Tower whenever they want. Furthermore, Siuan was very direct in her statement to Elayne that she expected to see her back in novice white the next day. There is absolutely no reason to assume she didn't expect the same of Egwene. (I can't remember what she wanted to talk to Nyaneave and Egwene about privately in that scene.) Egwene knew what was expected of her once she passed the Accepted test, which is the same thing that is expected of all Accepted. Siuan doesn't have to say, "You are not permitted to leave" for Egwene's behavior to amount to defiance.

Yes, I know she did. And I can kind of understand your line of thinking, but I can't agree with it because everyone in the House is part of that House, so the implication is they are all forgiven. It's semantics, and very underhanded. Cutting deals with the rest of the members of the House doesn't make it less dishonest. I can accept a ruthless Morgase, like punishing people when it is necessary for the stability of the kingdom when she would rather show mercy, but I can't accept a dishonest Morgase.

The fact that your HS English teacher said it doesn't make it true. I heard a lot of very stupid things come out of the mouths of professors in HS and college. Furthermore, George Lucas never claimed that Star Wars was an Arthurian adaptation. He drew inspiration from Arthurian legend, but also from far Eastern religions and modern day politics. (I've also seen ancient history mentioned, but never a specific example of it.)

I know I'm late to this conversation (catching up on previous seasons' discussions), but it doesn't matter if they did things that were unforgivable. She had just forgiven them, openly in her court. So she flat out lied. They had a reason for writing it this way, good or bad, but you can't justify it from a character perspective. What Morgase did was unforgivable.

Actually, in the books, doesn't the person who has toh have some say in how much their honor is worth? I seem to remember the Wise Ones saying that to Egwene when they were beating her. Also, it seems like at some point, it was implied that if someone sets their own toh really high, they can be seen as arrogant.

The swimming pool vs ocean is a good analogy. Even if a trained Aes Sedai doesn't feel like she's being drowned by channeling a great deal of the OP, more power requires more effort. This makes Moiraine's question to Rand make much more sense. She knows that as the DR, of course he channels much greater amounts of the OP than she does. I noticed the same about healing. I don't think we've seen an Aes Sedai yet who can't heal even serious wounds. Mat's sisters may have developed some healing talent because of their mother, but I got the impression that Alanna was on death's door. The overall increase in healing ability means that Nyaneave's talent is going to need to be that much more spectacular to make it something special even among Yellow sisters.

That's a fair point. In the books his entertaining gleeman persona is the one he presents most often to the public. And that's not to say being a gleeman wasn't very much who he was, because it certainly was and he took great pride in it. That and his age would not make people fear he was about to throw a knife at them. I guess after reading the books for so many years, and so much of his interaction being with people with whom he did not use the facade, I tend to forget how he would appear to strangers.

I always loved Mat and Thom together in the books, and I think I will in the show also. I don't think Thom is so very different from the books. I thought he always had a roughness to him. He could be very cultured and suave or downright deadly, depending on what the situation required.

I know when women are first learning to channel they have that feeling of being pulled under by a strong current, but once they learn how to surrender to it, they no longer have that problem and they are able to surrender without even thinking about it. It is second nature long before they actually become Aes Sedai. Watching Moiraine struggle against Sakarnen in E5 felt strange for that reason also. It makes me think that Sakarnen will lack the buffer that sa'angreal usually have just like Callandor. And I wonder if an Aes Sedai who is more powerful than Moiraine, like Nyaneave, will feel that same sense of drowning.

So after another rewatch, I've changed my rating from 6 to 7. I was REALLY tired yesterday, and even watching twice, I missed a few key things of they just didn't really sink in. Alanna's healing and Aviendha and Egwene getting badly injured and then quickly being okay are both still big negatives for me. There's something else and I don't know if I'm not remembering the books correctly. Does any Aes Sedai ever describe feeling like they were going to be drowned by the OP, like Moiraine did when talking to Rand? I want to say no, and if that's correct, then I feel it was a poor way to set up that conversation. Also, Moiraine is basically asking Rand's advice, but then tells him he's wrong when he answers because Saidar and Saidin are different. (Aes Sedai know that make and female channelers cannot help each other in learning to channel.) Their conversation conveys useful information, but feels clunky to me.

Thanks for sharing the link! I never would have thought to look for a specific clip like that. And I really love that scene. I love Mat's reactions - first he kind of gasp/scoffs when he realizes Elayne really can sing, and then he's like "Wow, I can't believe she's actually singing this, but I like it!" Thom is clearly pleased she really can sing. And I like that he has a kind of beat up guitar. It goes better with his rougher nature. Side note - it will be interesting to see what they do with his character. He mentions having been in the court of Andor, so it will not be unbelievable if he shows himself to be savvy about politics among the upper classes. I love how Elayne just goes with it once she understands what the song is about. Very Elayne. I also like the pirate port of call vibe in the pub scenes. I keep remembering Pirates of the Caribbean. 😄

That kind of stuff is like mindless action flicks where they don't care if stuff makes sense. It really cheapens the show. The battle of Emond's Field is one of my favorite parts of the books. If they blow it, I'll be very upset.

I just started following this forum as of Ep5, so I don't know what their takes on the first 4 episodes were, but no one is forcing you to read their posts. When you see their name, just move on.

I don't think most people would be that easily convinced either, but maybe she already has a sense of Perrin's honest nature? What do you mean about book beat theft? Don't we want the show to be as faithful to the books as possible?

I think they could both be equally traumatic. Imagine learning that your mother is a darkfriend and she killed your brother. IRL, that would like learning your mother is a Satan worshipper and she sacrificed your brother in a Satanic ritual.

It's not likely to be made clear in regards to specific time frames because this way they can just make it up as they go. If they are to go with that bit of lore from the books, they do need to make it clear that he was able to partially escape. I think show only viewers would be rather confused, otherwise.

It wasn't awful, but I wasn't terribly impressed either. Moghedien's compulsion of Elayne and Nyaneave was great, until she scratched Nyaneave. That felt totally out of character for her. I enjoyed Elayne's singing, and like others, I was very amused when she understood the meaning of the song! But she quickly overcomes it. Maybe the show will have her learning as many bawdy songs as she can instead of swear words. I really couldn't care less about Liandrin's history. We learned enough about her motivation for being a dark friend already. I enjoyed seeing the garden at Cold Rocks Hold. It's minor, but it was a good culture building scene. The little girl getting angry at Rand for touching her spear and telling him he dishonored her felt over the top though. It was good to hear that Saidar and Saidin are different, and what Rand said sounded like it came straight out of the books, but the context didn't make sense. Moiraine would not go to him for advice on handling the OP. I have hated the love triangle the entire time and am so glad that's over. I really didn't like that they made Rand a cheater, but I was glad he pointed out to Egwene that he was never enough for her. At the beginning of S1, she dumps him to train with Nyaneave. The fight scene with Sammael was mostly lame, except for seeing just how strong in the OP Rand is. Many people have already said it, but the Caution girls healing Alanna was just awful. The entire arc with Alanna and Maksim has been awful, and it ticks me off because I really loved Alanna up until now. They should have killed off Maksim and kept Ihvon, and he and Alanna could still have gone to the TR for the same reason, but without the pointless contrived drama. Perrin and Faile - ugh. Faile's mother was a darkfriend? Double ugh. She lied about her family and background in the books, but if that's supposed to be what she's doing here, it's a ridiculous story to make up. More likely it's to give her some trauma that will affect their relationship. This is the first time I did not laugh at something Mat said it did. 😞 Did anyone else notice that Egwene did not get in trouble for disobeying the Wise Ones about T'A'R? Just a mild scolding. Big surprise. Overall, 6 out of 10 for me.

That's probably right. I didn't think of it as her sucking their souls out. We were told earlier that they give up their souls, weren't we, not that their souls are taken. So I guess she is like a drahgkar.

That jumped out at me immediately! Moghedien is supposed to be all about caution, and that was just reckless. Or she thinks they are really stupid and won't realize something fishy went down. They giggled a little too much, which was a very strange thing to hear Nyaneave doing, but the way they answered her questions so eagerly was right on point. Best scene of the show IMO. Moghedien is beyond creepy! Has the actress played this kind of part before? Does anyone know why her fingers are black?

What the heck was that supposed to be? It looked kind of like a OP version on Thor's Hammer. And he wasn't even effective with it.

Or here's an idea - they could have left out the contrived conflict between Alanna and Maksim, he would never have left her, and she would not have taken so many injuries.

That's all the more reason to NOT give it a pass. By the time they're done, we may barely recognize the magic system in the show as the OP from the books.