13 hours ago, qlorin said:

Did you even seen or hear DO yet?... So far What you see was Ishameal pretending as DO... This was revealed at the end of book 3... 

Good refresher for me. I finished book 3 about a decade ago, so some of the details are a bit foggy.

1 hour ago, Sabio said:

Alot of what you ask is explained in what's called the Big White Book (BWB), some of what you ask like the DO's motives, desires, etc. is described in the series.

 

The basic information is the DO is neither male or female but is usually referred to as he.  The DO also has no true physical form and was imprisoned by the creator at the time of creation.  

Thanks for this! So is The Wheel and the Dark One like ying-yang (simply put). 

1 hour ago, UOweTamASword said:

I never know how to answer these types of questions. You don’t want spoilers but are asking questions that haven’t been answered in what you’ve read so far.

 

What answer could you possibly receive that wouldn’t be a spoiler? What if I tell you this stuff isn’t explained in the books going forward, is that a spoiler?

That's a great point! 

I guess I am curious if these questions are addressed. If not, theories would be very interesting to me!

Cheers.

Hey all!

So I don't know how many answers I'll get that are spoiler free on this subject. I'm in the middle of Book 4, rn, and don't want spoilers going forward. That being said, I have SO many questions about who or what the DO is. He's referred to in the masculine, and also the singular. Does this mean he was a human man at some point? He feels like a nebulous evil. He's not someone or something that can be understood or explored at this point in the series (book 4), and so I'm just confused about his motives. To destroy the world? Sure, but like what then? 

I'm curious if the DO ever gets a character study and becomes more than nebulous evil? Does he have a past, a future, an end game for what this all means? The Wheel doesn't have wants or desires, it just is. But the DO is an influencer in the world that is, in many ways, against The Wheel--but the DO also has desires, or so it seems. How can a person be so contradictory to The Wheel in their influence, almost outside the influence of The Wheel and still be a single entity?

Am I totally off base here?  If this stuff gets explored in later books, that's all I need to know, and if you can give me your thoughts on this matter without spoiling things that would be awesome too!

Hey! Thanks everyone, for all your thoughts. It's interesting. When I was younger, I had a difficult time with these matters because the writing didn't ring true to me. It felt forced. The verisimilitude was broken. There are still times when this happens now. I'm 25 chapters into book 4, and every once in a while I cringe because the narrative doesn't feel true to me. Like caricatures.

That being said, I've started to look at the story differently. I've begun to see these moments as pieces of growth within the characters. They are working through social and gender norms and while I find the writing a bit hokey at times, it doesn't negate the fact that there are obvious moments of clarity where these characters see each other for what they really are rather than through social norms.

I totally agree that RJ is using these moments as a device to point out how fruitless gender norms are in our society. There's a bunch of great points here. At this point I'm just glad to be enjoying these books (and the show), as it really helps me think back on when I was a kid and discovering fantastical worlds for the first time.

N.

I know there was once an official WoT TTRPG by Wizard's of The Coast. Sadly, it is near impossible to find it as a PDF and hardcopies of the book run about $500 because they have been out of print so long.

I know there is 5e conversion for play in WoT setting, but, truth be told, I'm not a huge fan of 5e. I'm curious if anyone has played in WoT with a different game system like GURPS or something and how it went.

Cheers.

N.

Hi all,

I'm reading The Shadow Rising for the first time and really like reading out loud. I've been steaming live readings of some of the chapters here and there. Come check it out some time on my Twitch channel. . . I'm not a professional reader or anything, so sorta muddle through it, but it's just something I enjoy doing.

https://www.twitch.tv/norrrs

Just now, DaddyFinn said:

Loial's voice and manners were always going to be the make or break for me and Hammed nailed them. It was so funny to listen to his ramblings ?

Absolutely agree. What a gem!

Like others, I thought Loial was too short. But love the aesthetic they went with for him and like the actor even more. Can’t wait for him to become a bigger part of the show. 

40 minutes ago, Harad the White said:

The BA and the female Forsaken do enough evil with "clean" One Power.

That's such a good point.

28 minutes ago, Yojimbo said:

 I am trying very hard to keep watching, but if they do this then it is absolutely NOT the WoT.  

I've given up on expect much from adapted works of genre fiction to screen. I like the show a lot so far. . . I also wouldn't care much if they change things as I see things for the screen as distinct from the sources they are made from. They become their own thing. I also don't know WoT that well and don't have such a emotional attachment to the canon. But when the Hobbit films came out. . . I know how it can feel when hollywood ruins your favorite. 

On 11/25/2021 at 4:27 PM, CaddySedai said:

Also kinda interesting that when "calling" the source it seems cleanish...but then when telling it what to do the taint just...slides over it like a sheath. Kinda neat interpretation. Leads men to maybe thinking... "THIS time it will not be t...oh no its still tainted. Oh wellz".

My it's because the power isn't the one that's tainted. It's them. . . ? I know that's not the lore. The lore is that the source itself is corrupted. But I like this idea that men, when using the same power as women can't help but turn it bad.

Sorta sounds like a commentary on society. . . who knew?

So I think there is a lot of love about WoT. I love the world building and the characters are well defined and, for the most part, interesting. Of course I have my favorites. 

I read the first 3 books about 10 years ago. I just picked up book 4. It's interesting to revisit a world now that I'm in my 30s rather than my early 20s. A lot of the things I remember not connecting with still persist. The main thing is the way the different binary gendered people think about the other gender. Mat thinks all women can't help but clean things all the time. Nynaeve loves Lan but also thinks he is dumb all the time.

For me, this is terribly off-putting in the sense that these social constructed beliefs about gender roles and attributes feel like caricatures rather than the way real people think of each other. 

It's obvious Jordan understands what he's doing here. In Chapter. . . 16? 17? of The Shadow Rising, Min plays up the whole helpless maiden thing while she's in Tar Valon, acting as Elmindreda. She gives Gawyn and Galad exactly what the first hates to see, and the other believes women to be. 

This leads me to believe Jordan creates these caricatures deliberately. My hope is that he'll also break this cycle at some point and use that breaking to develop characters.

Am I off base here? Has anyone else found this difficulty in reading the series?

On 11/29/2021 at 5:33 PM, Arie said:

Moving to General, as this is better suited to be there. ?

Thanks. I wasn't sure where to put this!

Hey all! It's nice to finally be here.

I say finally because I read the first 3 books years ago and am finally getting back into them. It's interesting diving back into the story 10 years on with different sensibilities. 

Cheers.

N.

Hey all, I read the first 3 WoT books years ago. The show has inspired me to pick up book 4.

As I've read, I had this thought to write little companions for each chapter that reference the show as well as the books.

Most people here will be fans and have read all the books (or at least that's my guess), but thought some people may enjoy this.

Cheers!

Reading The Wheel