Now that E4 has dropped, I hope this thread gets lite up again.  My likes for E4 are : 

-Representation of saidin is pretty cool and I really liked the way they showed the taint as a layer on the source.

-Nynaeve and Lan budding romance.  As annoying as she is in the book, they're story is a great one

-The shield on Logain as a lace (though not a fine lace) as accurate as anything

Still waiting for Loial!!

Have re watched with a friend who has not read the books though he is an avid fantasy reader in general from Forgotten Realms to Dune.  His appreciation for the genre has allowed him to enjoy the show as I am beginning to and his assessment an 8 so far.  He and my wife are falling for the DR so-called mystery and are having the debate between Egwene or Perrin. 

Watched it with my wife who did not read any of the series, however she has read the Mistborn series and is a capable reader (unfortunately mostly romance/detective). So far she is interested in the series and not put off by my explanations, but not blown away by the story.  She likes to figure out the story and I've let her know that this story is both simple and complex.  It's the Last Battle (simple) and who/how we get there (complex).

Overall, her estimate is interested but not hooked...yet.  I think the story will draw in more non-readers once the full picture of Darkfriends everywhere from Tar Valon to Amadicia is revealed.  Political intrigue mixed with sheer terror will play well on screen.

Well that ticks one box.  Good news.  Uno for President!!

2 hours ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

You're going on and on about appearance and then you talk about Perrin killing his wife. What?

You're right.  I did meander off at the end.  Will keep on point

28 minutes ago, JaimAybara said:

Maybe a hot take here, but what about this?

  Hide contents

keep Fain and have Perrin kill him with Mat as a change in the last battle? That way he actually gets closure for the murder of his family which is directly linked to his moves with the Whitecloaks. I always thought the death of Fain was misplaced/not quite right. My only big complaint in the last battle to be honest. 

Spoiler

Definitely cool but his commitment to the Way of the Leaf at this point really doesn't lead to vengence

 

Keep - all of Sheinarans, most especially Uno, including the escort of the apprentices to Tar Valon circus and all 

Cut - All of Padain Fain political maneuvers with the Whitecloacks or condense

10 minutes ago, king of nowhere said:

and they did a hell of a job introducing all that stuff about him in less than five minutes.

i'm just sad they only introduced him in episode 3; we'll get less time with him. i hope it will be a while before the "RUN" scene

The run scene is what I am really excited about.  This is when the ominous presence of Darkfriends everywhere, who do you trust sets in

The feel of E1-3 trends towards the better.  On repeated viewing (after the initial shock wears off) my hopes have grown for the rest of the seasons.  We all knew going in, that this would not be the same movie we viewed in our heads and while I still cannot reconcile the massive and unnecessary changes, we can only hope that a different director or epiphany rights the ship.  

The criticisms show that we ALL want this to be the story we love in all aspects and I can only suggest to continue forward and find the story where it exists. I have begun to enjoy the episodes and look forward to the next hoping that the powers-that-be began to truly understand the story that is being told.  

I have lived through many stalwart fantasy series that were adapted and failed.  Either those were graphics limitations or poor producers, but after viewing 20-30 yrs later they are amazing in their own right.  From Dune to Flash Gordon the cheesiness of the 70s/80s makes it that much more true to the story while the nostalgia of the attempts at an epic before it's time make it an icon.

And while those will live on in nostalgia, the Wheel has turned and others have risen to the task to produce great renditions of those epics we love.

We have a Wheel of Time series!!!!!  Don't abandon the process now, so early in the journey.  This will only grow from here.

It's not THE WOT Series, but A WOT Series   There are no beginnings or endings to the turning of the Wheel

It seems to me that they are trying to condense Mat's character with the changes to his family background. 

Early in the story he is just the complaining prankster (under the daggers influence mostly) and not the lovable gambler that leads the Band.  Face it, for all his bravery and impact in the Final Battle, he is still a complaining, womanizing gambler and partier ( a la Doc Holliday).  They furthered this development by changing his upbringing and therefore introducing him as a poorer version of the Mat we see him grow into in the later novels (after MANY trials and tribulations) 

9 minutes ago, jeffreycwagner said:

I agree with the title of this thread: It ROCKS!

 

I agree with most of the positive takes on here and like the way they used the river when Egwene was pushed in - Nynaeve: Trust the river.  Egwene struggles and has a hard time of it until she surrenders and then it gets quite and calm.  Kind of like using a hammer to make the point but I think it will be used well in later episodes especially for those that have not read the books.

 

I think some of the issues with the quality are related to comparing this to the fully realized vision of GoT,  When it first launched, the reviews were less than stellar and many much harsher than those for WoT. 

 

I am confident given Time, this series will be looked back on as much better than GoT and will come into its own.  I think about some of the upcoming twists and turns and think they will be real home runs.

 

Even though this is the positive thread, I can not let the character assassination that was perpetrated upon Perrin go without comment: It is a real travesty what they have done - it does not ruin the show but book Perrin does not exist and I do not believe ever will.  RIP Book Perrin.  He is my favorite in the books and it is sad he is not being included in the show - but, the series will still be good - just a bit different. 

 

And there is the possibility I am wrong and they will pull off a miracle and bring Book Perrin into the show.

I am always hopeful in all things and trust in the "Wheel" to weave as it wills.   After a 2nd, less purist, view I am even more hopeful on the future episodes and especially the growth of the world.  The upcoming palace and Tower intrigue are the aspects of the story that will translate well to the visual medium and seeing the symbolism I missed in the first viewing rather prevalent I am getting more and more excited.  

Get ready for the Ways and Ogier education for the party (and audience) of the wider world outside of the Two Rivers

The assassination of Perrin (perennial fan favorite) will create a different wolf/falcon dynamic and (while always hopeful) it will be VERY difficult to illustrate the true love and conflict of their relationship in the Saldean style.

The Wheel weaves as the Wheel wills

1 hour ago, DaddyFinn said:

Can anyone explain what makes this a "curse"? I've never understood it.

 

Uno better spit those flaming curses or we will riot.

Would think it's just because of the flow off the tongue.  Also, may be a cleaned up version for Wisdoms in ear shot

Uno would be the one to ask

The weaves - actually like the representation (barring any arguments on who can/should see it..I wanna see it) A very close representation of the movie in my head

The Trollocs - once again, another very close representation of the movie that played in my head while I read

The Warder/Aes Sedai Battle Dance - wonderful choreography that did, indeed, illustrate the teamwork and seamless strikes and counterstrikes between One Power and blade

P. S.  Super excited to meet Loial and the Ogier.  

3 hours ago, Gothic Flame said:

You're joking right?

Or his eyes turning color, and wolves talking to him, and worried that he might be labeled a "dark friend" wasn't enough to mess him up? Which was in the first book.

As well losing his entire family on Winternight and the existential questions he's faced with after he and Egwene shelter with the Travelling Folk?  He was conflicted from the first book and only continued throughout to include the romance with Faile.  

"That killed the goat" - Mat Cauthon

Have found many opportunities to use that one

6 minutes ago, nicki_minajah said:

 

I think there are enough characters in the books that it's okay to forget one. ? Liandrin is one of the Black Ajah who stole a bunch of angreal and ter'angreal and fled the Tower... In The Great Hunt, I think. Siuan sent Egwene, Nyneave, & Elayne to chase the group down. Liandrin is always described as with "honey-colored braids" and a "rosebud mouth." She was the Red in the very first scene of S1E1.

Thanks so much.  That got it.  It is alot of info in the series and this is what always worried me about print-to-film.  Everything gets condensed or cut the more depth that is there.

Kinda embarrassed to ask but...Who is Liandrin again?  I definitely remember the name but the only Red I can recall is Elaida-tutor to the Princess-Heir and future Amrylin (coup)

Any help thanks...and don't judge to harshly it's been awhile since I re read the series

What really captured me in the book (and all good fantasy stories) is the immersive ability of the author and their world.  Slang, speech, maps, regional styles and dialect are the tools used to draw in the audience and hold them in this unknown world.  For a story that has an audience capable of being guided through this world, this is one more little miss by the show runners to add to the myriad of questionable changes.  Trust the power of the story and the intelligence of the audience to embrace these immersive tools.   In the world of Hollywood the story always comes third next to profits and mass audience appeal and it makes me afraid this is the first step to GoT soft core fantasy porn

We all knew going in that there would be many missed plots and character traits due to print-to-film transitions, but the criticism of the fighter aspects of Nynaeve are clearly misplaced.  Her documented development began with her survivor/warrior instincts as Wisdom and protector of Emonds Fielders.  That was the reason she followed the party and resents Moiraine so much throughout the beginning. 

In the series they have changed and damaged so much of the story that Nynaeve is breath of fresh air after seeing an entire plot line and character created outside of Jordan's world.  Thus far (?) she is keeping me hopeful that different consultants and directors will get the show back on track with the greatest fantasy epic already written

Reading The Witcher series by Andrzej Sapkowski.  Got turned on to it by the netflix series and it is surprising strong given it's world is lifted from Grimm

On 11/10/2021 at 7:32 AM, DojoToad said:

Started reading Stormlight, but it didn't grab me.  May go back to it at some point...

Highly recommend.  Sanderson has an amazing and intoxicating ability when it comes to world building.  If you are a fan, Stormlight Archives won't disappoint

Seeing a lot of replies claiming that the atmosphere and physical appearance shouldn't change anything in the story or questions asking what does it change.  It changes everything!  

The story is written for the audience.  The story is designed to capture the audience.  Atmosphere and physical appearance creates the world that captures the audience.  Regular fiction exists in our world of Terra and can be adapted to different appearances for transition sake.  But in fantasy fiction the world is WHOLLY created by the author and every aspect is designed to amaze and delight the audience from the pattern of the rugs to the braids and shaved heads.  Add to that, the character development, in the context of world shaking missions and powerful confrontations, the physical descriptions between an Aes Sedai and her Warder become paramount to drawing in the reader and holding them to the story.

So to answer the question : It changes EVERYTHING

Especially the dynamic of a young ta'veren suddenly being married and killing his wife when his character development doesn't occur until he finds his future wife 

15 minutes ago, MasterAblar said:

Here I fixed it. Top quality photoshop I know.

Perfect! Now I can continue watching!?

An amazing take from a really great teacher.  I also took issue with the words used by Liandrin but then made the connection with the Reds always being myopic when comes to male channelers as well as sexist.  I didn't even consider the Black Ajah connections.  

The tired excuses for transitions from print to film, in my opinion, can't always be applied to epic sagas such WoT and Dune (still prefer the 80s version) given the depth of the world and characters that the author has worked so tirelessly to create.  The smallest changes affect the larger story and given Jordan's massive world with 20+ plot lines, timing and translation are hollow excuses that damage the Final Battle story

On 7/8/2021 at 7:25 AM, SinisterDeath said:

People in Two Rivers don't all share the same grandparents, and definitely aren't the result of generational incest. The "homogeny" argument is tired, and that word is never used in the books. ? 

If you want to go along the route of which actor doesn't look like they could share an ancestor, that goes to Madeleine Madden as she is of Indigenous Australian descent. Some of the earliest Indigenous Australians ancestors diverged from East-Asian populations 54,000 years ago.

So what I guess I'm saying is; it's easier to suspend disbelief, then to focus to hard about an actors genetics.

 

  

Imposing book Lan, comes down to how he looks at people, not his physical stature.

A lot of Fan Art cast Aragorn as Lan.

Interesting fact, Viggo Mortensen is only 5'-11". Daniel Henney is 6'-2". That makes him easily a handwidth taller than Viggo.

This is a picture of Daniel next to Hugh Jackman back in 2010. (Supposedly Hugh is 6'-3")

I think the image of Henney not big enough is due to the fact that Moiraine is not small enough.  Book descriptions have her of much smaller stature but with an imposing presence (Cairheinen style)