33 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

I agree. The women's circle stole the show. They definitely will have to show Rand's capabilities early next season.

It's definitely coming and it's going to be big, though not sure when in season 2 it'll come. I just wanted it this episode and the episode fell a little flat for me because of it. ?‍♀️

2 minutes ago, VooDooNut said:

I was thinking about this too, but Rand did break cuendillar, which they say right after is supposed to be unbreakable. That is pretty powerful in a way, even if it's understated.

This is true (and something I hadn't considered), but it would have been good to *see* the amount of the One Power it would take to actually break cuendillar. Nynaeve's moments have been more visually striking, and that doesn't feel right to me.

I usually watch twice before posting, but I'm going to post now while I'm still processing. Before I start, I'll state that I'm someone who is fine with there being changes to the story (e.g. that it is a retelling and not a 1-to-1 adaptation). But I want the changes to resonate with me (recognizing that what may resonate with me may not resonate with others).

Loved:

*Nynaeve and Lan scene (their relationship stuff)--I knew it was going to be a slow burn...

*Ishy and Rand stuff. I liked this better than what happened at the Eye of the World in the book. Also, these scenes set up important stuff (Rand can either save or break the world), and it resonated with the spirit of the books for me--Ishy felt true to character, there was stuff about how reality could or might be (taken from flickers, Egwene's Accepted test, etc.). I also loved Rand's moment of recognizing he wants for Egwene what she wants for her life (not what he wants from her)--this felt really powerful to me.

*Padan Fain showing up and doing something evil! I really like the show version of Padan Fain.

*The Seanchan looked so intense. My partner wanted to know if they were evil... ?

Liked/am intrigued by:

*The change to Moiraine's arc (still? shielded? what will happen next?)--am intrigued

*Loial and Min, but want more of both. ?

*Battle scenes

*Mostly liked the women channeling at Tarwin's Gap scene because I think it showed the temptation/danger of the One Power. The whole Nynaeve healing was the only piece that I didn't like.

????/ambivalent:

*Super glad the Age of Legends showed up in the Prologue, and liked that they showed it was an advanced world this early on, but this scene felt like it could have been more powerful/done more. I am missing that we didn't get the book 1 prologue this season (was really hoping we'd get it in some form this episode) because it's such an emotionally powerful scene and it would have fit with other stuff they were setting up this episode with Rand (save/break the world stuff, for example). Even if they didn't give us the original prologue, I felt like they could have given us a more emotionally powerful (AoL) cold open.

*Not sure what they're doing with Mat. I get that their choices are being at least partly affected by the actor leaving, but I'm not sure what I think about where they're taking his character. Will have to wait and see...

Disliked:

*I felt like they needed a powerful Rand channeling moment that revealed he was exponentially more powerful than anyone we've seen channel thus far. I didn't necessarily need the Rand Tarwin's Gap moment, but I wanted to *see* what it meant for him to be the Dragon Reborn.

*There were little things that bothered others that also didn't quite make sense to me--Nynaeve explaining tracking Moiraine to Lan? the Horn of Valere at Fal Dara?

Really liked a lot of the episode, but I didn't love it as much as a few other episodes. But I need to rewatch.

I do think that the show "cheated" by not showing the clue of Tam and Rand on Winternight or not showing Machin Shin's full words to Rand when they're in the Ways at the beginning of the episode. But not showing the weaves when Rand channeled makes sense to me and doesn't feel inconsistent with the book. From what I remember from the books, there is at least one moment in the EoTW on the journey to Whitebridge with Mat where he channels but doesn't realize it. And we see the same kind of hinting in Egwene's Accepted test (Rand is channeling but not realizing it in the first ring). As others have indicated, you could make the argument that we don't see the weaves unless the channeler realizes what they are doing (or there's someone else there to point out the channeling). 

I wanted to make a comment on the discussion of Lan and Nynaeve's relationship since this is something that is really working for me. I agree with previous commenters that it doesn't feel that much more accelerated than the books (because we get Nynaeve's internal commitment to Lan in Accepted test, Lan giving her his ring, his discussion of not wanting to make her a widow which indicates his care for her). Yes, they have sex in the TV show much earlier in the books, but it fits with how the show is presenting sex and sexuality, and doesn't necessarily mean there's not a relationship journey ahead for them (see my comments below).

I also agree with the commenter (sorry I forget who, and I don't want to reread all the comments...) ? who noted that non-reader audience members need to understand their connection before they spend considerable time away from one another.

I also don't think just because they had sex and we see the depth of their connection this early, that they're suddenly together and committed. Both of them in the scene comment on their respective duties (Lan's to Moiraine and their mission, and Nynaeve's to the other EF youth). It was clear to me from this that they're both grappling with the fact that they care for one another, but there's a lot of uncertainty about their long-term viability given their respective individual paths. I suspect this is how the long-term burn of their relationship will emerge. (I do think we're going to get a variation of the long-term relationship build in the TV show; it just won't be the exact same as the books. ? )

8 hours ago, ArrylT said:

 

Well he is spending a lot of time with her, so it would be only natural, especially as she was there when he had the moment to share he killed his wife, to worry that his feelings could change.  Friends have become lovers and all that.  Emotions are not easy to fully understand - which is one of the things I really liked about the books was the emotional arc of the characters and the struggles in not allowing their emotions to control or define them (or with Rand the reverse). 

 

People have doubts on their wedding days, but doesnt mean they do not want to get married.   That was how I interpreted it.    One of Perrins abilities that he grows is his ability to sense emotions (guess we'll see if this is developed in the show) so maybe that is an inkling that after reflection he's sensed after the Ways that no I am not in love with Egwene.  

 

But guess we'll WAFO.     

This all makes sense to me, and I do think that Perrin loved Laila and that nothing is going to happen between him and Egwene, but I think I was questioning why they made it an explicit tension for his character. I like Elder Haman's explanation as to why they might have spent time on this (even though I still don't love it). ?

5 hours ago, Elder_Haman said:

Here's where I think this is going: Perrin clearly blames himself for Laila's death. He loved her deeply and felt guilty about having feelings for anyone other than Laila. At the same time, he is also very fond of Egwene and so Machin Shin is using that to feed into that blame about Laila's death. "You don't love Laila enough" is the thing that is eating at him. In my opinion, it's a way to set up Faile. Perrin's early arc will be about him coming to terms with his guilt and being able to love again.

 

The "love triangle" isn't a thing. Rand acknowledges this to Egwene. (And can we take a moment to reflect on how well Rand played the petulant jealousy thing - foreshadowing some coming behavior changes). But it's put out there as a thing to help the audience see how much Perrin is protective of Egwene but also struggles with the idea that he was somehow unfaithful to Laila. At least that's my take.

 

This makes a lot of sense to me. I was trying to express (though I probably didn't do a great job) that I didn't think there was an actual love triangle (it's clear that Egwene and Rand love each other and that nothing has or will happen between Egwene and Perrin). But I was trying to understand the motivation for adding this emotional dimension to Perrin's character. But this is an explanation for it that makes sense to me given what we know of his character arc--thanks! ?

I do like the explanations that minimize/explain the love triangle (Perrin cares for Egwene but didn't fully understand love when he was younger, Nynaeve is misreading things, etc.). But part of what the Black Wind says to Perrin is that he loves another woman more than his wife. My impression of the Black Wind is that it feeds on one's insecurities/fears, so it seems like there's a part of Perrin that worries about this, which I don't like. I would have been much happier with the Black Wind feeding his fears about violence. While I suspect the love triangle issue not going to turn into a big thing (e.g. Rand and Perrin dueling for Egwene), I still don't get the purpose of having it be a thing at all.

21 minutes ago, Wraith235 said:

10 - NYNEAVE BRAID TUG !!!!!!!
 

 

Yes! I forgot to include this in my highlight list but meant to. And the way she did it felt very subtle and authentic and not overdone (like it typically felt in the books to me).

My reactions are very similar to others, so I'll just include a few highlights:

Loved:

*Blood Snow!!! Favorite cold open.

*Loial in the Ways, esp when he starts to describe worse things than falling into a bottomless pit and Rand stops him ?

*Lan and Nynaeve--their relationship has really been resonating with me this entire season

*Rewatching the episode and watching Rand's reactions knowing that he was coming to terms with the fact that he is the DR the whole episode

*Uno swearing

*Min being more forthcoming with Rand than with Moiraine

Didn't love a few things that others have already pointed out: e.g. changes to Agelmar, and also the Perrin-Rand-Egwene love triangle (like others, I just don't get the point). But these didn't interfere with my overall enjoyment of the episode!

Probably my favorite episode thus far.

Loved:

*the cold open with Logain and the depiction of saidin

*Scene with Lan and Nynaeve where we see their bond developing

*multiple scenes where we're getting good character/emotional work layered with world building (Perrin and Ila--Way of the Leaf; Rand and Thom--male channeling; Lan and Nynaeve--Malkier, Old Tongue).

*loved seeing depictions of different warder/Aes Sedai relationships

*the Warder's campfire--you get more info about the Aes Sedai and warder/Aes Sedai relationships, but I also love how it shows their brotherhood/connections to one another

*this version of Liandrin--she's different than my head canon but better

*the depiction of how the Fade moved

*how they are showing the effects of the dagger on Mat

*overall, lots of really good character moments

Things that worked better for me than previous episodes:

*better pacing and fewer moments of clunky dialogue

*The depiction of the Tinkers in episode 3 bothered me. The Tinkers emerging in the mist and things seeming all eerie and drab was weird. The wagons and dancing this week were much more resonant for me

Things that didn't quite work for me:

*The battle in the woods (aside from Alanna's initial arrow trick) didn't quite have enough oomph. But this isn't why I'm watching the show (and there have been other One Power moments that have really hit me).

*Moiraine's self-doubt in her convo with Lan. I'm not against Moiraine's frustration that she lost the other EF youngsters, and I'm not anti- the "Who is the DR?" question that is driving season 1 of the TV show. However, her wondering about Logain didn't strike me as authentic

23 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

 

What I actually came to say though: I watched with captions this time because of background noise and apparently when Moiraine is mumbling while injured and unconscious she actually says "Siuan". Wanted to mention because I hadn't seen any discussion of that yet.

Putting my response in a spoiler since it's about info that might be revealed in a future episode

3 hours ago, ForsakenPotato said:

 

- Missed the scene where Moiraine heals the horses but doesn't have to heal Bela. Given they want to play up the "who is the dragon" angle I think they could drop some more hints like that without giving it away too obviously (especially with the gender changes--it could still either be Rand or Egwene and I think it's already obvious to people who haven't read the books it's not gonna Mat or Perrin, and obvious to people who have read the books it's Rand)

This is crazy subtle, but it's still there. I can't pull up the video right now (at work), but what I remember: when Lan comes to stop her when she's healing the horses, the small horse (Bela) is standing in the background hanging out all chill (while the horse she's healing is on the ground until she's done healing it).

6 hours ago, CaddySedai said:

 

They are, it could be a dream but I also see it as possibly as being what was. 

 

The arches do not show the exact past, they can be different - in reality you could have become trapped in a cave and hid until you were dug out. But in the arch the way opens and you explore and learn more about yourself. 

 

Would also be great to hear that the way back will come but once, be steadfast

 

?

I'm still inclined to think dream, but I def agree on that last part! The tower/Aes Sedai stuff was some of my favorite material when reading these books as a teen, and hearing that phrase in the show would make me happy. ? 

1 hour ago, NightWolf said:

I did and I thought it was some prelude to the old-man form Mordeth who I figured Mat was going to run into at the treasure room... but umm, no.

Nope. ? It was one of my favorite easter eggs (in addition to the sheep/dragon's fang moment).

22 minutes ago, CaddySedai said:

 

I… have a feeling… it will be the first arch. 

 

What was. 

I think it will be a dream. Not sure if this has been hypothesized elsewhere, but I think the colors in the pool are the seven Ajah colors.

So, I'm new to these boards, but very long-time book fan. Wanted to share a few thoughts:

*I'm overall really happy. I feel like the episodes got progressively better, mostly because the pacing got better as the episodes progressed and also because each of the characters is emerging. Because this story depends so much on loving the characters, I'm so glad this is happening. While a few characters aren't quite as they are in my head (e.g. Thom and Mat), I'm open to the changes, and think the acting is fantastic.

*Loving the scenery/settings. So beautiful and helps to convey the epic nature of Jordan's world.

*I get why the did the fridging, but as a feminist, not a fan of the technique. So I get it, but wish the tension in Perrin's character could have been shown through a different change in his backstory.

*There were multiple little moments that had me swearing. e.g. The sheep in the shape of the Fang. The whistling in Shadar Logoth.

*While not every scene resonated with me, there are multiple scenes I loved. Even though episode three was my favorite overall, some of my favorite scenes were in episode two. The Manetheren song scene was beautiful. I loved the scene where Moiraine talks to the Whitecloaks and then reveals to Egwene afterwards how you need to pay very close attention to what the Aes Sedai say.

Overall, super happy, especially since it seems to be getting better as each episode progresses!

4 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

 

 

Yep. They had just gotten done talking about how pale she was from keeping the party refreshed, and she was injured, and there were 30 some WC, not a small handful. This was one of my favorite scenes of the first 3 episodes.

Agreed on this. It was also a really great way to show the need to really pay close attention to what the Aes Sedai say.

(New to this board, but long-time WoT reader.) Did anyone else catch the whistling in Shadar Logoth?!? That was one of my swearing moments. (There's also whistling in episode one.)

Also, I'm in the camp of liking episode two better than one.