On 11/19/2021 at 12:23 PM, Apoc81 said:

  Rigney wasn't just popular in the USA. 

Other than Ishamael saying that, do we know that for sure?  The only one of those two we KNOW are linked to the horn is LTT. 

And we don't know which heroes help bring about the end/beginning of other Ages?  Their importance and guaranteed return time and again will but just as important as the Last Battle and the Breaking of the World. 

Just because we know about this Age, doesn't mean the others aren't equally as important to the turning of the wheel.

As there are multiple Ages in the turning of the wheel.  We have seen the end of one and the beginning of another.  There are certainly going to be other heroes of the horn that rise to the level of the Dragon in the other ages.

On 11/12/2021 at 11:34 PM, Sabio said:

  Only LTT and Ishy are destined to play major roles again and again.  

All the heroes of the horn are destined to play major roles again and again.  Not every hero ends or starts an Age, but the heroes of the horn do much more than just be farmers (even if they were one).

In the book, after Matt summons them, Hawkwing says something holds him.  He says I have come to horn, but must follow the banner, and the Dragon.  It's been a long time and I would have to look up exactly the page and the specific text.

It seems likely that under some circumstances the heroes follow the horn sounder, but in others, they must follow the weave of the pattern.

8 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

Certainly glad you have the authority to speak for every fan.

 

 

I'm glad you're glad then.

My concern after reading how, after the NOT author of the series has decided how the actual AUTHOR would have written it, is the show they are making. This is truly now nothing more than expensive fan fiction.  Honestly after reading today the quote saying this is how RJ would have written it today is just an insult to every fan and Robert Jordan.

The only person who should ever come close to saying something like that is his widow.  I was growing more optimistic, but all my earlier doubts have come back full force with their total commitment to destroying the very basis of the WoT universe.  Like the books that weren't written by Jordan, I am now wishing they never made this because what's about to come out will be the TAINTED version of the WoT.

And Rafe is now the Dragon who ended the AOL burning it all down and corrupting everything for us.

I'm sorry that this seems so negative, but it's just how I'm feeling right now about what is coming out.  I do hope you all enjoy it, and hopefully it bothers me less, but right now watching the show just left my agenda.

I think we will be surprised that season one ends with Bela defeating the Dark One in a surprise attack on Shayol Ghul while all the would be Dragons are fiddling around at the Eye of the World.

Bela neighs her way into the Dark One's heart and it grows three sizes bigger on the spot.  The Dark One rides Bela down the mountain, puts up a message to everyone in giant letters, then heads back into his prison with Bela and seals the hole up himself.

The question is, what is the message the Dark One put on the side of the mountain?  That is the cliffhanger for season 2.

TL;DR.  The posting by others about the good and evil in WoT just got me thinking.  Everything below is just some conjecture about the Pattern and what the effect / reason for good and evil are for it.

This is discussion is a little fascinating  What if the Great Pattern of the Ages in the WoT wasn't the first one the Creator made.  Maybe he tried a world where "good" was the only motivating force?  Maybe the Creator needed to make the Dark One to bring balance, allowing for the pendulum to swing back and forth.  This swinging of the pendulum between "good" and "evil" allows for the turning of the Wheel and the growth of all the various kinds of life into some, as of yet, undetermined future planned by the Creator for them all.  

Sort of like a calm peaceful lake where the water never moves, nothing mars its surface.  It stands still and idle.  But then a great raging force churns that water and it explodes, cascading down mountains, destroying as it goes.  But that destruction leads to amazing changes and new life that would never have happened without the great force disturbing it.  So the Dark One acts as the instigator force that allows the Wheel to keep going. 

The Creator maybe learned (or knew and this is the first Pattern of Ages it created) that his will alone was not enough to give life the churning it needed to reach the next stage (final stage?) of its existence and thus was  the Dark One created and bound inside/around/as a part of the Pattern.

So maybe the Creator knew that without good and evil (adversarial forces), the wheel would eventually stop turning.  Maybe Rand realized THAT in that moment.  The Dark One wins when the pendulum stops swinging, bringing about a true end to the Pattern of Ages, freeing the Dark One forever.  Maybe the Dark One couldn't escape the Pattern, even if his prison was broken.  But once free, he could bring about the Pattern's end by removing his influence or blocking entirely the influence of the Creator.  Maybe the Dark One would himself be destroyed should the Pattern end, but maybe the void was more attractive than eternity bound to it as it's unwilling slave.

The Dragon too is both Good and Evil being a ta'veren intended to help destroy and save, in consecutive ages, the Wheel.  When the prison is remade, it creates the wellspring of chaos that helps the Wheel spin for another turn and sets up the next Pattern of Ages.  Maybe the final Age is a world where people learn to face the choice of doing "good or evil" every day, and opting for ""good" (good being some theoretical form of right over wrong)?  Maybe the Pattern will keep spinning until that happens or the Dark One does finally win...

It would only have been more interesting if (and only in my opinion) the Dark One had allowed Rand access to the True Power directly giving the Dragon the true choice of whether to save or destroy the world.  The Trollocs weren't there to kill the Dragon in the Two Rivers, but to protect him from the Aes Sedai sent to kill him....

On 11/6/2021 at 7:32 AM, Rose said:

 

They're doing this on purpose to keep us confused. Next it'll be "one of the six of you" (the sixth candidate is Bela of course) ?

Oddly, Bela as the DR would be a truly unique plot twist that I would love to see put into action!

The more I read about the likely changes to come, the less I want to watch the show.  I hope that first episode is damn good, because otherwise it's going to be the last one too.

2 hours ago, Rose said:

 

 

 

Because really, how do they know that souls are gendered and retain their gender? It's not exactly something you can verify. So I could see M & S deciding it's within the realm of possibility that souls aren't in fact tied to gender, and choosing to cover all their bases just in case.

 Well we do know it.  Since the heroes of the Horn came back and are always the same gender.  Birgette tells her story that she is always spun out after Gaidal Cain and marries him (or they get together, etc). 

I'm not exactly new.  My old account used some long forgotten email so this one has taken its place.

As many others have noted as well, I have great concerns and honestly doubt this is going to be anything other than a disappointment.  However, my hope is that it turns out to be something far greater than I ever imagined.

But the comments by Sarah add to my concern.  She seems to say there are going to be changes that you (plural and singular) won't like.  There will be many.  And we actually discussed them all and still did it even when it didn't really fit. 

This is the worst part of it to me.  It can't be easy to sift through these novels and try to bring all that to the screen.  There would always be some things cut and some things kept we as fans will disagree with.  But the story itself is ALREADY written and didn't need to be fine tuned.  The core lore of this world didn't need to be adapted for a new kind of understanding because RAFE thought a woman should maybe be the dragon instead.

There isn't anything wrong with a story that flips the entire script.  A world where women broke the world and men held it together.  But that isn't THIS story.  I want OUR Wheel of Time.  The story was already there, it didn't need to be changed.  Cleaned up for tv, of course.  But not changed because Rafe wanted an even more modernized inclusive female focused Wheel of Time because he decided RJ didn't to it good enough.

There is enough in the material released to offer some hope that this could turn out great.  There is MORE than enough to give concern that this is going to end badly.  I will wish for the former rather than the latter! 

We give far too much latitude to writers and directors who ruin the stories we love because they aren't good enough to write their own.