GASP! If they really were plant people, it would also explain why Avendesora was trusted to them! Maybe the original Aiel were the fruits of chora trees??? and why they respect and hold Ogier in such high regard! AND WHY THEY ARE SO GOOD AT BLENDING INTO FOLIAGE! Guys, #AielArePlants

The Aiel could not have been genetically modified. Genetic experimentation on humans and animals was forbidden by the Hall of Servants, and it was for this reason that Aginor turned to the shadow. Only plants were allowed to be experimented so, leading to choral trees and the nym. On the other hand, a case could be made that the Aiel are super advanced pod people. It would explain why seem to need little food (they get nourishment from soil), why they thrive in a desert (yummy sunlight) and why they hold water precious. Maybe the Daishan Aiel were grown pod people to act as servant to the AS. 

We all know that RJ borrowed certain concepts from Dune. This is not news. Neither is this a condemnation. In fact, I admire the way RJ was inspired by Dune and created something distinct and totally different from the original wellspring. The Big Three that he borrowed from Dune are as follows: The Desert Warriors, The Sisterhood and the Messiah. I will now proceed to compare and contrast the three. 

1) The Sisterhood

The White Tower Aes Sedai and the Bene Gesserit share many traits but are fundamentally different entities, only similar in markings and trappings but not in mechanics. They are both exclusive sororities that surround themselves in the trappings of a religion but are not. They both seek to save humanity. They both use ignorance and mysticism to appear infallible. Both organizations have apparently magic powers. Now let's talk about how they differ.

Where the Bene Gesserit actively use sex as a tool, Aes Sedai treat sex as a last resort. This is because the Bene Gesserit are running a breeding program while the Aes Sedai are more like the United Nations. Where the Bene Gesserit can train males with their abilities, the AS cannot due to the difference in power source. While the Bene Gesserit are more comfortable in the background, Aes Sedai can work in the limelight and still work in shadows.  Their interest in their Messiah also varies vastly: the BG are making a Messiah while the AS are anticipating one. Their moral codes also varies: the BG can and will use their mind controlling Voice at will, AS are held back by their code of conduct. Killing is perfectly acceptable to BG, it is anathema to AS. Where the Aes Sedai try to help others in terms of justice, medicine, knowledge, the Bene Gesserit are single minded in bringing forth their Messiah. 

It is hard to compare which organization is better, since to do so is folly given the stark difference in setting. The universe of Dune is ruthless, where wars of assassination are common. It is a brutal world that has made the Bene Gesserit. The world of WoT is charming by comparison. But given the choice, I would hedge my bets on an Aes Sedai's counsel, even though there is a one in five chance she is a Black Ajah. 

2) The Desert Warriors

The Aiel have their roots in the Fremen of Arrakis. No denying it.  Fierce desert peoples made superior fighters over all others because of their terrain to be led by their Messiah to war. But their origins in their worlds are also similar: both were originally peaceful nomads driven to their arid homes. But while the Fremen want to escape their desert, the Aiel welcome it. The Aiel are being punished, with no hope or want of redemption. In no book was it ever stated they wanted to leave permanently and the only clan to wish so was nearly annihilated. The Fremen are seeking paradise, the Aiel welcome Hell. 

Women have more say in Aiel culture, more power. I am not talking about fighting prowess, in that, both people's women are on the same ground. But the Fremen way is certainly more chafing to women. Chani and Aviendha may both be lovers to their Messiahs but Aviendha has more say in the goings on of her people than Chani. 

Finally, both value water highly. Oaths made to water are sacred in both cultures. But in the end, the Aiel Waste has more water than Dune. Water is not poisonous to anything of importance in the waste, its ecosystem will not collapse because of it. Water and its scarcity defines Fremen culture, honor and obligation are that defines Aiel.

3) The Messiah

The Dragon and the Kwisatz Haderach are both anticipated messiahs, are both male, are both extremely powerful. But that's about it. Paul Atreides and Rand al'Thor are about as similar as night and day, with only the dawn and dusk as overlap. Both are guided by prophecy (or prescience with regards to Paul) to their path. Both rail against the inevitable. But Paul is fueled by vengeance, at least at the start. Rand is fueled by duty. Paul was manufactured, Rand was provided by providence. Paul is amoral, Herbert intended him as a warning to those who would worship one such as him. Paul used his authority to inflict the cruelty he needed to maintain dominance. Rand did too, but it seems that while Paul was consumed by his mantle (as designed by his author), Rand fought his. Here we see the difference in what kind of messiahs they are.

Paul was a manufactured messiah, written by a man of science. He is an instructional tool and a warning. He is to show us the fallibility of anything mortal or made by mortals. 

Rand was a divine messiah, written by a man of faith. He is to be aspired, to be heeded. He is still a warning, he commits some of the same sins as Paul. But Rand redeemed himself and learned. In the end, take warning from Paul Atreides but learn from Rand al'Thor.

IN SUMMATION

No accurate comparison can ever match Dune and Wheel of Time. Their setting, characters, plot and writing style are too different to do so. But while I think Dune is the science fiction equivalent of Lord of the Rings and a superb masterpiece, the Wheel of Time is more personal, more inspiring and more...human. At least to me.

Sorry for the loooooong post, but I had to write this out here. Thank you for reading.

With regards to the thinking that AS treat sex as a major weapon in their arsenal, in the series, I remember very little instances where that happens. For one thing, AS have two far more superior tools at their disposal: their authority as Aes Sedai, and the mystique and awe that brings. In Randland, they're like the Catholic Church and the UN combined, very much like the Catholic Church during the Renaissance (still influential and powerful but not as great as before). Compared to that kind of ethos, sex is trivial. In fact, I only recall them only considering using sex as a weapon only when that is taken away: like when the attack group sent to the BT was overpowered. Name one other instance when an AS uses sex as a tool of manipulation. 

Oh, and doing it with their Warders does not count as manipulation. Warders have sex with their AS consensually. 

would take too long to write and read.  If it helps, the Aiel who do call each over by half a name usually tend to be close to one another.

But, if it comes to understanding the Third Age a using it to great advantage, Demandred takes the cake. His manipulation/fulfilment of Saharan prophecy? Flawless. He beats Graendal in that aspect. His major flaw was his ego. 

I agree that the Forsaken were too sure that they were superior because of their Age they come from and that it led them to underestimate discoveries from the current age. But the only thing that was truly unique in the field of channeling was Warder Bonds ( the viewing gateways were great, but it comes too late to the series). Let's look at it from an AoL perspective. 

Here we have a bunch of channelers who are willingly shortening their lifespan, who do npt credit the existence of  dreamworld, who have to ride horses to get anywhere, and are not even that good in battle (in their opinion, since the War of Power was the greatest war ever fought). Would you really respect them? Particularly if you are as arrogant, as self-centered and vain as the Forsaken?

Also, the Warder bond would require TRUST, something the Forsaken see as a welcome mat to death. Even black sisters chafe under the warder bond when they bonded light aligned warders. Only Verin and one other Black sister had a Dark friend warder, IIRC. No wonder a lot Black Ajah are Red, it removes thatc complication. 

Do you really see the Forsaken bonding anyone as Warders? They will never bond anyone from the Third age, that's just demeaning. Besides, even if that DF warder is too intimidated to backstab a Forsaken, when they die, its a massive blow to the Forsaken. If you Compel the poor fool, who's to say how that will affect you? The sister Semirhage was torturing certainly regretted it. 

Finally, THEY WiLL NEVER BOND ONE ANOTHER. The Forsaken are cagey enough just talking to one another, and get paranoid when FORMING CIRCLES. A warder bond is just too much trust and power to give another person. 

The contraceptive of choice in Randland is heartleaf tea, as mentioned by Min when she was in shock cause of certain awkward events in WH. And AS generally do not get kids because of the whole "We can outlive our grandchildren" thing. And apparently, its not taboo to do so cause AS who do get pregnant do no get booted out.

I think that if they had used saidin and saidar without the True Power, both halves could have been tainted. I remember reading in AMoL that the coating of True Power that rand drew from Ishy through callandor was instrumental in preventing the DO from tainting. Sine LTT and co had no inclination or way to draw True Power, it would never have occurred to them to shield the source from the DO with his own essence. The breaking would have been the End as we know it.

Maybe they could form a society of their own? Or form a rank within existing societies, specialising in channeling to accomplish that society's goal? Like Red Shields channelers could become like red sisters, specialising in taking down enemy or criminal channelers, Stone Dog channelers could specialise in making barriers and walls to facilitate escapes.

Before we all hop in to the "Red Ajah are EVIIIL" wagon let us consider the psychology of the people in the Westlands regarding male channelers. If you lived in a world where a man can suddenly go insane and start rearranging the landscape, you'd be terrified too. Remember, prior to Winter's Heart, a male channeler was 100% certified to do just that. Killing them before that would be considered a kindness, for them and the people around them. If you knew that if you didn't get gentled that you'd slowly rot from the inside while hurling fire at the nearest person and talking to imaginary people, wouldn't you choose death too? 

Now its unfortunate that gentling, the less murdery of the options the red have, leads to death anyway, but what choice did they have?

The true horror of the vileness was not just the wanton slaughter, but the lack due process. Well, at least from the AS perspective the lack of due process was more vile, because those men were doomed to die anyway. The terrifying part of the vileness for me was how many of those 10,000 were not male channelers.

Okay, so shortly before Moiraine tackles Lanfear through the twisted stone doorway, e was sneaking up on Lanfear. But right before she piledrivers into the Forsaken, she e!braces saidar. 

why??? So she was trying to sneak attack Lanfear, her entire gambit rested on her not being noticed and incinerated by the irate Forsaken. Embracing the source would have immediately drawn attention to her. 

I have some theories about this. 

1) She wanted to be noticed to distract Lanfear from killing Rand. But wasn't that the entire point of attacking Lanfear bodily in the first place? Why risk her tackle for a momentary distraction?

2) She wove something to give her the upper hand. If she did, it wasn't a shield, because with the amount of saidar in Lanfear at the time, I think it would have taken a full circle to do so.

My last theory remains, to me, the most plausible. 3) Moiraine embraced the source to melt the doorway as soon as she and Lanfear were through. How on earth she did that, I don't know, but she did rediscover balefire, so destroying the doorway wouldnt be impossible. Plus, she probably got the bracelet angreal when she did do it.

I don't think that they would die. And according to RJ, they CAN go back to the Light, but there is no One Power weave that can do so, they would have to willingly go back and repent. According to the same RJ answer, that is nearly impossible since the Turning process massively diminishes such conscience, if not removing them. Permanent imprisonment in a stedding is the most humane choice. If not, mercy killing

Armour made out of the stuff would be light (cuendillar is as light as porcelain IIRC). Problem is you can't make it all in one go, as steel armour made of the stuff would fuse, like the Tar Valon chain. So maybe plate armour? With the links between each piece made of regular steel. The cuendillar pieces of the armour would be nigh invincible from all attacks.

Latecomer to this thread but in regards to the whole "Let's gateway solar material to burn everyone" argument: Moghedien implied in The Shadow Rising that interstellar gateways was possible. She claimed while trying to intimidate Nyneave during their fighrt in Tanchico that in the AoL they created gateways to other planets. Robert Jordan said so in a Tor Question of the Week. As for Ishamael trying to solar flare the world, Ishamael has no way of convincing that many people at once to pull that stunt. Even if he tried, or tried to cow them to doing it, Ishamael has already a hard time trying to convince 12 of his coworkers to doing anything in unison without the DO backing him. 

So interstellar gateways = possible but only with a full circle. This opened up to me fanfics of AoL spacefarers. We know they have atmospheric devices ( bowl of winds, graendal's air conditioner terangreal) so planet colonization would not have been impossible. Wonder what happened to these hypothetical outposts during the War of Power? Or during the breaking? 

How scary would it be to be an AS stationed in a remote planetary base while your male coworkers slowly go mad, preventing you from ever returning home. Or returning home only to find the Breaking happening in full swing.

Also here is a thread I found just now about space gateways

https://dragonmount.com/forums/topic/76087-other-planets-in-the-wot/

I don't think anyone is meant to serve the Dark One forever, just like how the Dragon can be made a force of evil. Isnt that the point of the whole rebirth cycle? To escape the shackles of your previous life and atone for it? While Ishamael may well be an anti-Dragon, his dark counterpart so to speak, reborn to serve the Shadow as the Dragon serves the light, I don't think its set in stone. If the Dragon can be turned to the Dark, why not Ishamael be turned to the Light? As for the other Forsaken, their souls aren't like the Dragon, set to be reborn with a similar purpose. So i guess they can dies and be reborn like other normal peeps. 

However...they DID swear their souls to him...so maybe when they die and he is displeased, he keeps their souls and tortures them for ever and ever. He can't be resurrecting them again and again, remember all the Forsaken had already been born centuries before the Bore was opened, before he could directly influence the pattern. So I don't think the DO has a special collection of souls he incarnates to be his chosen. As AMoL points out, its humanity who give him power and followers. So as long as there are selfish and greedy and evil people, the Dark One will have his Chosen

I think Trollocs, being Jordan's analogues to Tolkien's Orcs, have somewhat human souls mutilated and mutated with animal souls just like the first Orcs were twisted elves. If Aginor could mix DNA, I don't think he stopped there. That's probably the root of the Trolloc evil: human souls tainted with bestial souls. It has been noted that Trolloc behavior is influenced by the type of animal spliced to the human base. So a wolf Trolloc is cunning, or more so than its counterparts, because it has the cunning of a wolf soul grafted to its human base soul. This animal-human soul graft could also explain why Trollocs are led by fear, after all that is what animals respond to the most. 

As to Myrdraal souls. I think that while they do have mostly human souls, they are tainted by the True Power. It has been theorized by people in the books that their shadowportation and fear powers are granted by connections to the DO. And the DOs primary connection to the world is the True Power. I would also like to draw comparisons between shadowportation and Travelling with the True Power: neither are detectable by conventional channelers ( AS only detect the presence of Myrdraal not their use of shadow) and both allow travelling but with no visible gateway: they just seem to appear out of nowhere. If Myrdraal have souls tainted with the True Power, it would also explain their reluctance to enter steddings. They feel cut off from the DO in steddings because like channelers they are cut off in there. Now that last bit is pure speculation on my part because we have never seen True Power channelers wield it in steddings.

While interesting, we know channeling is tied to the soul, wouldn't your theory mean that all of them should be channelers? Besides, if anyone should end up with Perrin, its Min, since they share a close bond after spending winter together after the events of Falme. But Min was pretty darn sure what she felt for Perrin was more like sibling love. Also, Min does not interact with Mat again after book 6 (coorect me if I'm wrong) until she is appointed Doomseer by Tuon. Besides, Mat and Tuon are the best couple. Why break em up hahaha?

Okay, this is what happened:

The Darkhounds broke trough the door and slobbered all over Mats arm. The amount of slobber would have been lethal but not instantaneously, just maybe in a few seconds or so. 

Rand balefired the hounds, deleting them backwards through time. This means that the hound that slobbered all over Mats arm was dead before it inflicted that much damage and drooled that much on Mat. Balefire sort of reversed time, undoing the damage done by the darkhound. 

So when Moiraine arrived on scene, the amount of deadly drool on Mat was considerably less than what had been there before Rand balefired the dog. That amount could be healed. 

Either way, Mat did not die from the drool. The first time (prebalefire by Rand) the amount WAS deadly but not immediately. Postbalefie, the amount of drool was no longer fatal. 

Reread the chapter if it helps. Moiraine explained it very succinctly if I recall

I know! And every time someone sees its profile from a distance they say its a slim spire or a nail or some other adjective of slender. Who do I believe??

True. Its the whole vibe of the series: separately, men and women can do great things. But when they work together, they can seal up Satan himself. (I DOUBLE POSTED CUASE MY TABLET IS SLOW, HOW DO I DELETE THIS??)

True. Its the whole vibe of the series: separately, men and women can do great things. But when they work together, they can seal up Satan himself

In regards to the Darkhound attack, Mat WOULD have died if Rand had not balefired the darkhound. He had not died yet, but he would have. He was still alive and mostly well by the time Rand did that. If you are talking about his hanging, I think he was near death but still able to be resuscitated, just like Rand did. Death by being hit by lightening is more final

9 hours ago, Mrs. Cindy Gill said:

He was a motherless child. He needed moms.

He got a whole Aiel warrior society of them. Which was actually very touching, when the Maidens revealed that that was why they were so loyal to him: he was all their children returned.  As for Moiraine as a mother figure, it gets doubly creepy when one remembers that in one possible future, she bedded him to secure his trust. (Shudders and vomits a little)

Oh my God, thank you. This issue is one of those things that drag me out of enjoying fiction. Like how the on the world are seasons years long in Westeros and whether or not this weird weather affects Essos.