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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Tarvalantarverann

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Everything posted by Tarvalantarverann

  1. What about the time in The Stone of Tear when he had her cut off from the source and was holding calendor, he could have off with her head right then and there, instead he let her mess around for ages, because he couldn't bring himself to do it. I understand for story purposes it was best she lived, but if we talk reality I would have done it. Jordan should of made them battle briefly until they discover that she couldn't beat him while he held calendor, and he couldn't beat her till he knew more about the source. See! Problem solved no more BS about not hurting a women even to save his own life.
  2. ^^ I agree To the white knights, I don't think anyone should hurt anyone, but hurting a woman doesn't make you a scum bag peice of dirt filth or whatever you said, hurting Anyone who is considerably less physically strong as you should be looked on with equal disdain male or female.
  3. Why is it not ok to express hate? It is a real emotion that we all feel from time to time, if you can sincerely love a character why not hate also? I don't mean to say you should use over the top abusive language to detail your feelings but there have been paragraphs here devoted to reasons why people love characters. I don't think you can separate reality from fiction completely, this is what I mean; when reading fiction your opinions on what makes a person likeable does not change, therefore the feeling you have towards a particularly unsavoury character should be exactly the same as it would be to the person in real life, the exception being they can't hurt you and as soon as you put down the book they are gone. But while reading a book that stars someone you hate it is impossible not to feel strong emotions and disappointment towards characters that ruin the book for you. That is why the "haters" are here, because we feel wronged by a particular personality and to a certain degree are pissed about it.
  4. EDITED to add spoiler tags Thank you! This is exactly the behaviour I was referencing and the main problem I have with the series. some people had said nyneave grows out of this in book 8 but I see that is BS now. Just confirms my resolution to put down the books... Forever!
  5. Here is the exact quote "As the last of the Aiel went through, Sulin hissed, and he glanced at her, but she was looking at his hand. At the back of his hand, where his fingernails had sliced a gash that oozed blood. Wrapped in the Void as he was, the pain might have belonged to someone else. The physical mark did not matter; it would heal. He had made deeper inside, where no one could see. One for each Maiden who died, and he never let them heal." And the website where I found it: http://www.e-reading.mobi/chapter.php/80198/22/Jordan_06_Lord_of_Chaos.html If you read carefully through chapter 21 in Lord of Chaos you will find it. Physical and emotional self-harm. The poor lad needs some help.
  6. There is also a scene in book seven I think it is just after they go to shadar logath with the Ogir, (sorry can't find page numbers as I listen to audio books) where upon stepping back through the gateway it is noticed by one of the maidens that Rand has scratches a line into the top of his hand. It then explains the pain is nothing compared to the emotional loss, and something about him having done it many times before... I think. Well I just got the impression it wasn't a one time thing, i will try to find the exact quote.
  7. Also when rand inspected that institute in Cairhein it was obvious scientific development was going full steam ahead, even though Rand single handedly chose which ones had merits and which ones didn't deserve funding. Due of course to his extensive knowledge if stuff and things.
  8. Lol it was a joke, the point is they seemed to have to tech for developing muskets or whatever, at the very least bombs that don't need an aye sedai around to enchant them first, or cannon. It was less than a thousand years since gun powder reached Europe till the first nuke was dropped, just pointing out the inevitable direction they were headed. Glad we agree on something
  9. I do suppose I went over board with that statement, it is more like you said, the characters are at fault. There are a couple of things I would change and some ideas, like guns for instance, if that crew that makes fireworks have access to some form of gun powder, guns shouldn't be far off from that world, then inevitably tanks and nukes and who needs the one power then right? Haha I thought The Chosen were way better characters than the good guys, more believable and enjoyable to read, Rand and the others on the other hand are exactly how Demandred describes him, pretty incompetent besides all the powers they got without all of the hard work the immortals have out in.
  10. And really a dozen times more mature? Mat wouldn't be funny if he went all mature, besides he got his knowledge majiked in his head, great development there. Egwene promising to have Gawain whether he wanted to or not, sounds like an angry toddler. Perrin still denying the title of lord even after months in effective command of the Two Rivers, the whole "I'm just a blacksmith" routine fails to work after book three, if not earlier. Even the travellers, wtf is wrong with someone that won't fight even to defend themselves, from certain death, ffs Buddhist monks do! Sounds like religious fundamentalists after a tornado that kills hundreds, "it is gods will there is a meaning and it must be for the better". You are right, I just dislike the series and I could keep articulating why for ages. Such a shame because like I've said before the basic story is pretty cool, most everything else is shit.
  11. In my conclusion I didn't say the characters hadn't changed at all, because they have, but that is just knowledge of how to do stuff and how the world works as you said. The core is the same and the core is the problem. Rand simultaneously tries to reconcile with having to use people to save the world, and letting women die for the cause. but men can die in droves for all he cares. Same with Mat and Perrin. Egwene becomes one of the most powerful single people on the planet yet has petty flights of fancy and jealousy over Gawain. When Rand is linked to that eye sedai without his permission, he should have ripped her head off or made her reverse it, instead he pretends it never happened, and walks away, whether it ends up being good or bad for him, it's messed up. The character can "develop" to the ends of the earth, for all it matters, if I find them horrible to read. This is my opinion and I didn't want to try and persuade, just see if anyone else thought similarly because it was doing my head in that this could be considered one of the best, as told by many resources and acquaintances of mine. I think I made my main point pretty clear: men are treated like shit throughout, by each other but more importantly by the women. So you say this is because of the breaking of the world where the male half is tainted, so the world is suspicious of men or whatever? Cool. I say that plot is crap.
  12. Thank you all for input, but I have quit the series. I struggled for days trying to keep going because I Hate to leave something half done, but as it was I was skipping most female chapters besides Mins, also I was beggining to hate Rand as a character, Mr Theron Lord of the Morning would have been a much better read and should have taken over Rands mind haha. I simply was not enjoying the reading and would often find myself laughing bemused and disgusted at new developments, not taking it at all seriously. For instance Rands self harm at the loss of maidens, the secrets that women who participate in the dreaming conceal, Certain maidens doing what they want without regard to Rand, jeez even the women Ogir rule over their men like master and dog. Obviously the best option is to go full Arthur Hawkwing on the countries. Good move finding the false dragon to train up warriors, but why does Rand have to be a complete douche to him? I would think he would want a close friend, that knows what it is like to channel with great power, to talk to, I know I would, love earns greater loyalty than does fear. Once again, a great and epic plot and story line, but the characters so utterly fail in every respect that I can't bring myself to finish, instead I have dreamed up an ending for myself that I am currently enjoying.
  13. Perrins first experience was with Elias who was decidedly not mad, wouldn't you agree? That is part of the point I made: he had a chance to learn his new abilities but gave it up and tried to ignore them. The fact that nyneave knows she is behaving badly does not excuse it? Lol it makes it worse, probably a lot to do with jealousy. Anyhow I'm finished reading, I gave up reading nyneaves chapters after her departure from tear with Elaine, shortly after skipping over egwenes chapters too, now in the middle of book seven, when Rands obsession with keeping women safe and commiting to memory the face and name of unknown women killed during an attempt on his life, I have quit the series. He even self harms everytime a maiden dies, pathetic. a real man would have wiped lan fear off the face of the earth as soon as he knew who she was, not this BS about he couldn't even kill her if his life depended on it, news flash buddy the whole world depends on you staying alive so drop the chivalry!
  14. Come on mate think about it seriously, if the roles were reversed and Gawyn said the same of Egwene would it be ok?
  15. So I have to look for the reasons that they are crappy people? I never said Nynaeve shouldn't have followed the crew, in fact it was noble, but where I do have issue is her ongoing hate of Moiraine, which to any reasonable person is unwarranted, unless of course you are a 12 year old girl. Lets look at Elayne and Egwene and almyra all ganging up on Rand because he didn't try to convince Elayne not to leave, and she took this as a sign he didn't love her, firstly what a childish thing to do to write two contradicting letters, very highschool, not daughter queen stuff. It is basically an attack on him because he didn't show the appropriate female emotions that Elayne wanted, lets not forget he's got a bit of stress around him atm and she's playing stupid mind games with him. Again this is realistic I suppose, and I can see a silly girl doing exactly this, in fact I do see it whenever my uncles wife says she is going for a girls night and he says he hopes she enjoys it and he might hang with the guys, suddenly turns into a fight about he doesn't want her around. Because the behaviour may be justified from the woman's perspective does not make it any less terrible to read
  16. Ok so you don't like Mara or think her character isn't developed very well or something? All three books are about her, whether you delve deeply into her personality or not it would be obvious if she was a man hating bitch, which she isn't, and that's my point. I never said these were examples of "strong characterisation" just that they all featured important female players that weren't hoe's. do you argue that all books with strong female characterisation inevitably ends up with nasty women, or do you think there may be other examples out there that would fit with my views? Do you think if Galadriel had of been written into every chapter she would turn into a towering mass of contradiction and teeth gnashing? How about Game of Thrones? Do you deing to call that an epic fantasy or is it too mainstream? Maybe the chapters and chapters devoted to female characters is not enough development for you? You aren't arguing the point, just trying to argue with me about specifics. If you disagree that they are good books, frankly my dear I don't give a damn, and the point still stand, Robert Jordan created vile creatures in women's skin.
  17. Thank you! Man I was starting to think I was one of the only ones to see the man hate in this series, I think the writer was a bit of a mangina. Look at some of the great fantasy epics, LoTR, The Empire Trilogy by Feist, Icewind Dale Trilogy by Salvatore and all his forgotten realms books, all of these authors manage to have strong, influential female characters that are main players or stars in the stories and they are beautiful personalities that are enjoyable to read completely different to these immature brats.
  18. Ok this is a great character trait to develop? Ignore stuff that might be helpful just because you don't like someone, sounds like nynaeve and moiraines relationship. Btw just read the part in book 4 where Elaine and nynaeve set off from tear, and Tom and the theif catcher come along to lend a hand, now I don't know for sure but am I wrong in guessing that at some point the two guys save the girls? Maybe by disobeying an order from them? I just witnessed the most disgusting dialogue where nynaeve demands an oath that the men do exactly what they say when they say it, as if they are now the universal intelligence and know all, how naive, then she again treats them like dogs and tells them to run along and talk to the sail mistress to find a little hole for the men that is out of the way. And they are there to help! My god Tom knows the city at the very least they should be happy to have a guide. Insolent little brat. I have now decided to skip any and all chapters with nynaeve as this was the last straw
  19. All of those things aren't examples of personalities changing, sounds like they adapt in order to survive very basically but I assume they don't change much in the ways we have critizied in this post. ( i haven't read past the fourth book) but four books of mighty battles would be enough to make me do things a little differently without a doubt, also they wouldn't have to change of they weren't such fucking whiny morons
  20. Frankly I find it almost preferable to think that he just didn't know how to do characterisation and personal interaction well. I have to agree with this, IMO he went over board with the strong, empowered woman idea, until it ended up negatively effecting not only the female characters but also the men in the series too. There is a sense that the women are more intelligent and capable than the men, right from the outset, "you great hairy lumox" is a term used often, and usually used when the man isn't doing exactly what it is the woman wants. Also the women bicker among them selves more than anything, Egwene and Nynaeve in book 3/4 as far as I've read, is just fucking stupid. It is clear they are spending too much time together, I often feel this way but when the world is at stake I think you would push it aside wouldn't you? I think the writer wants to put across the idea that Egwene is no longer a little girl from the farm, but this was achieved when she killed those fades, easy, done, now please stop being bitches! Maybe it is realistic because I see women acting like this all the time, not all women mind, just the children and the feminists.
  21. I really wanted Perrin to stay with Elias for a time and learn about the way of the wolf, I think the series would have been much better if he accepted it early on in that first book and learnt some cool stuff, but I guess the whole idea is that they are just a bunch of kids that don't know what they are doing. That doesn't mean they should get all the help they can rather than trying to do it all by themselves
  22. I can understand why she would be bitter to begin with, but once the scope of it all becomes apparent she really should get over it and be thanking moiraine on her hands and knees for saving them all, not to mention bringing Lan into her life, amirite? The girls seem to me petulant rather than empowered. I'm all for being badass, seeing as they are all powerful, but they are also spiteful and jealous, ignorant and obnoxious. Like how nyaeve starts playing mind tricks with Lan right before they leave The Stone, telling him half truths or leading him on, then commanding him, telling him he must obey her, even when he is not her warder, she came off as superior, treated him like a dog, and all that to a man she loves! Elayne and egwene playing mind tricks with Rand. Falcon first tricks Loial into taking her by the ways, which she obviously had to do for the stories sake, but afterwards she forces Perrin to come licking her hand like a dog asking permission to be able to walk with them... sure she was upset but this is his family at stake and all she can think about is herself. The fact that Perrin is scared of the change is all well and good, but he isn't just cautious of change, he outright rejects it like if he ignores it will dissapear, like a man with a broken paddle rejecting the idea that he is not moving anywhere.
  23. I may get some hate here but no matter. First issue is with the three girls, annoying as hell, double standards everywhere, irrational at every oppourtunity, nyneaves choice to hate moiraine for doing that nasty, nasty thing of saving all of their lives many times! Stupid girl... I recall one moment in book three where the girls lift mat off his feet after he sets them free, without so much as a thank you and stalk off on him, then in the next book the girls are furious when rand does the same to them, how dare he! And then egwene fights a pinch on the bum with what she considers a 1-100? Woah that escalated quickly :/. Next is the way the three lads are made to be completely blind to anything female, and also the point is made at every opportunity how each thinks the other two are much better with girls... Wtf? He says it like 50 times throughout. if only one boy asked another some advice they would quickly figure out how useless they all were. They are always slow and a step or two behind the girls, whether its romantic or plot oriented they are regularly left scratching their arses wondering wtf. Mind I'm only onto book 4 and hoping it will get better. The constant rejection of their talents Is infuriating from Perrin and Rand. The way Perrin try's to fight off the wolves is embarrassing, and I was beggining to think that damn rand would keep denying he was the dragon till he bloody died! Waa waa I just want to go to the farm and see my daddy. Mat I think is the best of the three because he readily embarrassed his power, even though it wasn't an in your face power as the others at least he didn't go off denying he had really good luck! Imagine being able to talk to wolves! Let alone hear, see and smell like them, the way Perrin acts is foolish and annoying when any boy would eat it up. Secrets also shroud everything, people leave out important details in messages, or simply don't say anything at all, till too late or just in time, it doesn't add to excitement unfortunately just makes them all look really dumb. Besides all this there is some awesome plot line. I just can't reconcile with what I see as fatal character flaws, I'm so annoyed listening to nyneave I have to skip, for example. Listening to mat, or loial, who is my favourite character, probably because he just sits in the background quietly and busts heads when needed otherwise taking notes, he's really cool, but these are my favourite parts, and why I keep listening. I must say if I was the dragon reborn I would be raising mountains, breathing fire, destroying armies and making love to all three of those girls, haha I hope this gets better!
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