Manscher
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Posts posted by Manscher
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Still doesn't explain her thoughts about "forcing her hand" or her explanation to Gawyn about her believing Rand knows it's wrong about destroying the seals and that he wants her to stop him. Those are the thoughts of some really arrogant and self absorbed person, who are completely sure that he/she alone knows the right of things.
As Randsc said, none of us really denies Egwene or the WTs importance in TG, but they kinda need to get knocked down a few pegs. All other major characters/powers aside from the seanchan have been kicked down when they grew to arrogant, Egwene have still avoided that, because everybody around her thinks she's the best thing since sliced bread
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Ok where did she said that she is going to listen to what Rand has to say? I did not read it in any of the books so please enlighten my poor soul and give me the quote.
ToM
"Then meet with me at the place known as the Field of Merrilor, just to the north. We will talk before I go to Shayol Ghul. For now, I do not want to defy you, Egwene. But I must go."Neither of them looked away. The others in the room seemed not to breathe. The chamber was still enough for Egwene to hear the faint breeze making the rose window groan in its lead.
"Very well," Egwene said. "But this is not ended, Rand."
So unless you think she will show up to the meeting and refuse to allow him to explain his plan that is the next step.
I'll counter with some of the very last thoughts she have before the end of ToM
She would have to contact their two rules and see if she could sway them to her way of thinking. But even if not, surely what she had gathered would be enough to convince Rand to change his plans. Light send it was enough. She didn't want to think of what would happen if he force her hand.
Does that sound like somebody who's just "questioning" him? Who have even considered listening to him at all?
Sure, she goes to FoM to discuss it with him, but not with the intentions of listening to him.
It's basically the same as to enter a discussion with another person saying "If you do not submit to my opinion, I will hit you in the face"
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The whole issue is Suttree, she's not questioning it at all, she does not for one second sit dow and begin to actually think about it. She just flatout rejects his idea and plan to oppose. That is what people are arguing against.
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But the thing is, Ta'veren influence is the will of the wheel, so how can Aes Sedai dismiss it? Just because it does not agree with their belief? Ta'veren does not work for your benefit, it works for the wheel. So using that as an excuse to dimiss Nynaeves opinion seems rather silly to be.
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You seem to forget the part where she afterwards think(Or talk, can't remember exactly) about how she will tie toe Aiel to the Tower, in an attempt to ensure The Towers dominance of the other channeling factions. And then there's of course also the whole thing regarding the Asha'man bonding Aes Sedai, cause clearly only Aes Sedai are good enough to bond anybody.
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I don't think Graendal planned on that, Perrin got away because Slayer failed to protect the Dreamspike, so she wanted to do atleast some sort of damage with her trolloc army, and send them after Galad. Perrin showing up wasn't in her plans, and that's what spoiled it even further.
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Can't really blame Elayne for going to Ebou Dar to find the bowl. You can however blame her for wasting over a month searching on their own instead of asking for Mats help, didn't Tanchico teach Elayne and Nynaeve that men can actually be quite useful at times? Woolheaded women ;P
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Who says Lan and the baby is a mistake? Might very well be a vision of post TG with Malkeri being remade under the rule of Lan and Nynaeve, they would need heirs after all :P
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Actually, it's only Two Rivers and Borderland men who have that mentality, for everybody else it seems rather subdued. In Thom's case he's just pissed that she got killed without reason.
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When an Aes Sedai says something straight out, yes then people are reluctant to trust them. She choose to withhold the information for them, knowing that their nations might very well be underneath the Seanchan rule before anybody gets a chance to react. Yet she still insist on her idiotic idea that they should bring their entire armies.
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Egwene tries to comfort Illian and Tear saying they will get gates back to their cities if there are any signs of an invasion. At the same time though she thinks to herself that the Seanchan most likely knows traveling by now and in that case a gateway back home wont help them.
So in that case, yes Egwene is in fact at fault, she manipulates the nations to come giving them a false sense of security. Just for the sake of "intimidating" Rand, her childhood friend..
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Where is the evidence that Elayne left the Waygate unguarded? Verin's letter says that it is guarded and thought secure (although granted Verin wasn't necessarily up to date on these things) and that this was insufficient - nothing short of outright destruction would be, according ot the letter.
No evidence, I didn't claim it was left unguarded, I just said I doubt she would've paid attention to the Waygate being guarded when she took over. Especially considering she never thought of it during the talk about the invasion.
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The Tower does not have nearly enough soldiers to help with the Borderlands. At the Field of Merrilor, Egwene can both try to change Rand's mind as well as organize the defense.
The Tower constantly boast about it's power and how it can make monarchs jump when they say frog, yet you are trying to tell me that they aren't able to organize sending armies or at least sisters to the borderlands to aid the defends? No, it seems rather obvious she intends to use the armies to "force" Rand in the case he wont dance on her leash, she even thinks about replacing Darlin because he wont move his entire army there in fear of the Seanchan.
Now, my question is, how on earth does she hope to achieve that goal? intimidating Rand and/or "force" him with armies that are for all practical purpose sworn to him?
Rand did not destroy the Waygate nor did he use the weave he did on the Waygate at Shadar Logoth. As simple as that. Of course she would. She can't be seen as accepting the throne from Rand as that would do away with her legitimacy but that's another argument.
I'm not saying she should've accepted his help, I agree with her decision there, I'm just merely pointing out that he had put guards at them, and I doubt they were ever replaced after she came into power. Rand can hardly be at fault there really, last he was in control of the city the Waygate was as safe as he could make it. Putting on the ward would really serve no purpose in Caemlyn, as it would still give the Trollocs plenty of time to slaughter the citizens, and he didn't have any means to destroy the Waygate until long after Elayne took control of the city. So guards was by far the best solution, she just didn't replace those.
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Why wait until AFTER the meeting with sending support to the Borderlands? No, she clearly wants to use them to intimidate Rand, which truly baffles me. She mentions him forcing her hand, does she intent to use force against Rand and his followers? Fighting among each other when TG for all practicality have already begun and the Borderlands being overrun are just idiocy.
And how can you put Rand at fault for the invasion? He put guards on the Waygate when he was in control of Caemlyn, but Elayne was rather quick at throwing out anything related to Rand as soon as she entered the city. Which I suppose includes the guards at the Waygate and I doubt she replaced those.
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You know, I've been wondering why Egwene have been so insisting that the monarchs should bring the majority of their armies to the field. Surely the Monarchs and various important people from the nations including the required retainers is more then enough. Does she believe that she can intimidate Rand with an massive army?
Regarding Andor however, there is the question whether Elayne actually brought her army to FoM, she went to FoM directly from Cairhien it seems, and she only brought a part of the Band with her to Cairhien. So unless she had the Kin open gateways for her army to move from Caemlyn to FoM, the majority should still be in Caemlyn.
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The gateway that snapped close on Gawyn was because Perrin moved into Tar Valon with the dreamspike at the exact same time. As for the messenger, he got killed before it ever reached Egwene, if I don't remember wrong Egwene mentions it the day after the battle in Tel'aran'rhiod.
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I'd assume it some of those 51 Aes Sedai who got bonded to the Asha'man, if I don't remember wrong, they've all been taken out of The Black Tower to help and I doubt there's around 100 Asha'man and Aes Sedai in the Stone of Tear.
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I suspect it's whenever Rand enters the void, Fain is unable to sense Rand when he is fighting the trollocs, while in the void, during his and Loials escape with the horn.
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When Rand uses the Portal Stone in "What Might Be" from The Great Hunt, he sees various versions of his life. In one of them he is not aware that he's able to channel, yet he still suffers the effect from the taint, the decay and the rage outbursts, no voice though. In the second life he knows he can channel, and uses it at times, and again the taint-induced rage is present but no voice or memories of being Lews Therin.
I'd assume most male sparkers just go unnoticed like Rand did in his first life vision, and some might actually realize that they can channel and learn to start using it. Judging from the huge amount of male channelers that suddenly show up at The Black Tower, there ought to be a small percentage of those capable of learning enough. You know what they say, if you put enough monkeys to write on a type writer, eventually one of them will write a Shakespeare novel.
What is the deal with the Egwene-hate?
in Wheel of Time Books
Posted · Edited by Manscher
Yes they have been trashed pretty badly, but problem just is, those blasted Aes Sedai haven't actually learned a SINGLE thing yet. The Sitters are still talking about guiding(Read: Control) Rand, and they are still outragous about the fact that Asha'man have bonded Aes Sedai, yet completely oblivious to the opposite happening as well.