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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

True Source Creator

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  1. My favorites, because it's almost impossible to choose one: Rand, Mat, Lanfear, Ishmael/Moridin, Demandred, Moiraine, Min, Semirhage, Thom, Lan, Nynaeve, Egwene (sometimes, but not always), Aviendha (sometimes, but not always), and of course Verin.

     

    I voted Lanfear though, just because I do love her as a character. I want her to come back to the Light.

  2. So how do you expect the final book to play out, chapter-by-chapter pretty much. For instance:

     

    Chapter 1 - rand pov

    Chapter 2 - rand pov

     

    so on and so on, and where and at what points certain things will happen (for instance)

     

    Chapter 36 - Demandred dies

     

    or something like that.

  3. Rand, Mat, and Perrin each spend different books in the lead role. Although it would seem Rand is the main hero of the story (and indeed, he is), the other two are equally critical to the plot and take up an almost equal amount of screen (well book) time. So in a way, they're all three the main protagonist. Rand's duty and purpose is just the greatest.

     

    Which one is your favorite to read? Who has the best parts? What are those parts? Who's best in which book?

     

    My favorite is Rand, although i really like Mat. Perrin has a couple good books, but he gets really dull after he meets Faile and after he saves the Two Rivers. He's my least favorite.

     

    By book (with ranking):

     

    Eye of the World:

    1) Rand

    2) Perrin

    3) Mat - we never got any POVs from him in this one

     

    The Great Hunt:

    1) Rand

    2) Perrin

    3) Mat

     

    The Dragon Reborn

    1) Perrin - he makes up a large bulk of the book

    2) Mat - here's where he starts coming into light as a great character, IMO

    3) Rand - for a book titled after him, he sure isn't in it often

     

    The Shadow Rising

    This is tough, really tough. All three have great story arcs here. In fact, this is probably the last book I really liked Perrin in. But, as far as I'm concerned, the story arcs that intrigued me the most are as follows:

    1) Rand

    2) Perrin

    3) Mat

    But it's really close

     

    The Fires of Heaven

    1) Rand

    2) Mat

     

    Lord of Chaos

    1) Rand

    2) Mat

    3) Perrin - he doesn't come in until like the final third, but it's by this point that he's getting really boring since Faile is all over his case

     

    A Crown of Swords

    1) Mat

    2) Rand

    3) Perrin

     

    The Path of Daggers

    1) Rand

    2) Perrin

     

    Winter's Heart

    Hmm, a bit hazy memory. Perrin's story sucks by this point. That annoying Faile/Shaido think has kicked in by now and it is absurdly boring. But Mat's and Rand's were both interesting.

    1) Rand

    2) Mat

     

     

    3) Perrin - die Shaido story...or Faile

     

    Crossroads of Twilight

    Blegh overall. I don't even remember the Rand scenes, and Perrin's were droll again. But Mat's were the best here, even though there's not much memorable there either.

     

    Knife of Dreams

    1) Mat

    2) Rand

    3) Perrin - even though it is a big improvement; he finally finishes the Shaido plot but it's too late in the book

     

    The Gathering Storm

    1) Rand - owns

    2) Mat

    3) Perrin

    The other two are barely in it though

     

    Towers of Midnight

    1) Perrin - yeah, this is Perrin's book mostly, and finally he has a story worthy of reading again

    2) Mat

    3) Rand - not enough book time

  4. I don't think any of the Forsaken will turn back to the Light, but I hope at least one will. Four possibilities:

     

    1) Moridin - but not likely. His link with Rand may have some effect, but he seems bent to want an end to everything. Maybe Rand could influence his opinion, though, but I doubt it. Moridin seems to be the main bad guy Forsaken at this point, and I don't see that changing.

     

    2) Graendal - again not likely. There's not really any reason for this character to do so. The only reason she may wish to is because she will likely be in a state of torture now, but that should be more damaging on the next two candidates.

     

    3) Moghedian - possible, but probably not. However, of the four she is the one who has the most experience being in the Light for a time after being Forsaken, as during her captivity she did have to act like she was good. Plus being bound so long in the mindtrap must surely make her regret things of the Shadow, and she is bound to envy freedom now. She's a possible, but not likely, candidate, because I think more so that it could be

     

    4) Lanfear/Cyndane - would love for this to happen. She's always been my favorite of the Forsaken, and I just want to see her actually be more than a totally dark character. If she returns to the Light, it could be with knowledge of how to seal the Bore. Maybe she sacrifices herself in the process (which would be awesome). She has motivation: coming from a position of upmost power to one of rape and torture. She always claims to love LTT and has aided Rand many times in the past. Additionally, there's a significant sign that she may actually really have loved LTT, not just as a means to raise her status and power, but actually as a person, though hidden by her pursuit of power, which makes it flawed. I'm talking about when Lanfear is in jealous mode at the docks of Cairhien. There's one amazing line where Rand tells her he would never love a Forsaken, and we see anguish cross her face. And then she decides to kill him if he won't love her. I really think that hurt her, and I hope it was because of some longing to be emotionally connected to him.

  5. As I posted elsewhere, my early compilation of Forsaken appearances and first time their names are mentioned. I have excluded Aran'gar, Osan'gar, and Cyndane as I haven't gotten that far in my re-read.

     

     

    Listed in order of appearance: (there are some exceptions)

     

    1. Ishamael (first appears in EotW Prologue; name first mentioned a few times in EotW.) (appears in EotW, TGH, TDR)

     

    2. Aginor (first appears in EotW; name first mentioned earlier in EotW) (appears in EotW)

     

    3. Balthamel (first appears in EotW; name first mentioned earlier in EotW) (appears in EotW)

     

    4. Lanfear (first appears in TGH as Selene; name first mentioned in EotW) (appears in TGH, TDR, TSR, TFoH)

     

    *Between these two we may technically have one of Mesaana, but I'll discuss her later*

     

    5. Rahvin (first appears in TDR as Gaebril; name Rahvin later mentioned in TDR) (appears in TDR, TFoH)

     

    6. Be'lal (first appears in TDR; name first mentioned earlier in TDR) (appears in TDR)

     

    7. Asmodean (first appears in TSR as Jasin Natael; name first mentioned later in TSR) (appears in TSR, TFoH)

     

    8. Moghedian (first appears in TSR; name first mentioned in TSR***I think) (appears in TSR, TFoH, LoC, ACoS, TPoD?, WH, CoT (maybe?), KoD, TGS (maybe?))

     

    9. Sammael (first appears in TFoH; name first mentioned in TDR) (appears in TFoH, LoC, ACoS)

     

    10. Graendal (first appears in TFoH; name first mentioned in TSR) (appears in TFoH, LoC, ACoS, TPoD (maybe?), WH, CoT (maybe?), KoD, TGS, ToM)

     

    11. Demandred (first appears in LoC; name first mentioned in EotW) (appears in LoC, WH, CoT (maybe?), KoD, TGS)

     

    12. Mesaana (first appears...tricky, in person in LoC, but we can assume she was Danelle in TSR and possibly Else in TDR; name first mentioned in LoC*) (appears in TSR (as Danelle), TFoH (as Danelle), LoC, ACoS, TPoD, CoT, KoD, TGS, ToM) *Mesaana is the first Forsaken we meet who was not mentioned by name earlier in one of the books; the first time we see her name is the first time we meet her, and we also read that part from her PoV. Interesting. She's also tricky, because she was impersonating Danelle as early as TSR and possibly TDR and may have been the Else who visited the Wonder Girls in TDR

     

    13. Semirhage (first appears in LoC; first mentioned in TFoH) (appears in LoC, KoD, TGS...may be missing some; I'm not sure)

  6. So I don't know why, but when I was re-reading the series (as I still am) I try picking up each time a Forsaken first appears (whether in person or in the guise of someone else) and also the first time(s) their names are mentioned, and this is what I've come up with so far: (up to LoC Ch. 1)

     

     

    Listed in order of appearance: (there are some exceptions)

     

    1. Ishamael (first appears in EotW Prologue; name first mentioned a few times in EotW.) (appears in EotW, TGH, TDR)

     

    2. Aginor (first appears in EotW; name first mentioned earlier in EotW) (appears in EotW)

     

    3. Balthamel (first appears in EotW; name first mentioned earlier in EotW) (appears in EotW)

     

    4. Lanfear (first appears in TGH as Selene; name first mentioned in EotW) (appears in TGH, TDR, TSR, TFoH)

     

    *Between these two we may technically have one of Mesaana, but I'll discuss her later*

     

    5. Rahvin (first appears in TDR as Gaebril; name Rahvin later mentioned in TDR) (appears in TDR, TFoH)

     

    6. Be'lal (first appears in TDR; name first mentioned earlier in TDR) (appears in TDR)

     

    7. Asmodean (first appears in TSR as Jasin Natael; name first mentioned later in TSR) (appears in TSR, TFoH)

     

    8. Moghedian (first appears in TSR; name first mentioned in TSR***I think) (appears in TSR, TFoH, LoC, ACoS, TPoD?, WH, CoT (maybe?), KoD, TGS (maybe?))

     

    9. Sammael (first appears in TFoH; name first mentioned in TDR) (appears in TFoH, LoC, ACoS)

     

    10. Graendal (first appears in TFoH; name first mentioned in TSR) (appears in TFoH, LoC, ACoS, TPoD (maybe?), WH, CoT (maybe?), KoD, TGS, ToM)

     

    11. Demandred (first appears in LoC; name first mentioned in EotW) (appears in LoC, WH, CoT (maybe?), KoD, TGS)

     

    12. Mesaana (first appears...tricky, in person in LoC, but we can assume she was Danelle in TSR and possibly Else in TDR; name first mentioned in LoC*) (appears in TSR (as Danelle), TFoH (as Danelle), LoC, ACoS, TPoD, CoT, KoD, TGS, ToM) *Mesaana is the first Forsaken we meet who was not mentioned by name earlier in one of the books; the first time we see her name is the first time we meet her, and we also read that part from her PoV. Interesting. She's also tricky, because she was impersonating Danelle as early as TSR and possibly TDR and may have been the Else who visited the Wonder Girls in TDR

     

    13. Semirhage (first appears in LoC; first mentioned in TFoH) (appears in LoC, KoD, TGS...may be missing some; I'm not sure)

     

  7. Everytime I hear the song "Circle" by Slipknot I think of WoT. These lines in particular:

     

    "Give me the dust, of my father

    Stand on the face, of the ancients

    Bury the sacred flesh, of time itself."

     

    -Makes me think especially of Rand, being the reincarnated Lews Therin, he possesses ancient qualities.

     

    And for some reason this line always makes me think of Graendal hiding out at Nattin's Barrow, probably because the first time I listened to this song, I was reading TGS:

     

    "There's a sacred place, Roselle keeps safe."

  8. Breaking it down by book now:

     

    The Eye of the World: The escape from Shaidar Logoth, with Mashadar consuming Trollocs and making the escape difficult, causing the company to break up

    Runner up: Winternight (Rand's first encounter with Trollocs ever!)

     

    The Great Hunt: Rand, Loial, and Hurin in the Portal World, especially when they run into Selene (Lanfear) for the first time

    Runner up: Rand catching up with Thom; such a great character moment.

     

    The Dragon Reborn: Pretty much any of the Tear scenes, but I guess overall: Rand versus Ishamael in the Heart of the Stone

    Runner up: Perrin being a blacksmith's apprentice in Tear and forging a hammer

     

    The Shadow Rising: Rand chasing Asmodean and fighting him in Rhuidean; one of the best Forsaken fights in the series

    Runner up: Rand walking through the ter-angreal at Rhuidean and learning of the Aiel's true past

    Honorable Mention: Bran al'Vere telling Perrin the fate of his family. Sad moment.

     

    The Fires of Heaven: Lanfear's showdown at the docks of Cairhien

    Runner up: Rand versus Rahvin

     

    Lord of Chaos: Dumai's Wells

    Runner up: Nynaeve healing severing

    Honorable Mention: both of Demandred's scenes

     

    A Crown of Swords: Might change when I re-read it; for now I guess Rand versus Sammael.

     

    The Path of Daggers: Also needs a re-read. Possible Rand going mad with Callandor as the Seanchan are approaching. Cursing bloody Shaiton himself.

     

    Winter's Heart: The whole cleansing scene, in particular the various PoVs we get (like Cyndane's)

     

    Crossroads of Twilight: Eh...

     

    Knife of Dreams: The random Trolloc attack early on, and Rand/Lews Therin using Deathgates

    Runner up: Capturing Semirhage

     

    The Gathering Storm: Verin's dark secret and big reveal

    Runner up: Rand almost killing Tam

    Honorable mention: Veins of Gold

    Honorable mention: Semirhage breaking free and pushing Rand too far

     

    The Towers of Midnight: Pretty much the whole battle in TAR, plus Egwene v. Mesaana

    Runner up: Mat's trip into Finland!

  9. I always assumed the title to refer to the harsh winter, but I find this fascinating (from TFoH Ch52):

     

    And she [Lanfear] smiled like winter's heart. "You will die slowly, and beg me to let you love me before you die," she said.

     

    Now I know Cyndane was rather insignificant in Winter's Heart, at least in comparison to the role she played as Lanfear in books 2-5, but could the title possibly, even if in just some remote way, reference Cyndane here. Remember in WH she has just decided that, rather than try to love Rand/Lews Therin, she will kill him, as we see from her PoV at the Battle Near Shaidar Logoth. Winter's heart would surely be an icy, snowy, white thing; winter symbolizes darkness, and woman. Lanfear is the ultimate female channeler, the one with "an icy heart" for Lews Therin; obsessed with white and silver. Surely there are parallels to Lanfear/Cyndane and the title Winter's Heart.

  10. At first I thought it was Moghedian myself, but now that I think about it, that's completely unlike her. She always hides in the shadows; you would pretty much have to be looking for her in TAR to find her. She certainly wouldn't just appear to some random girl in TAR and talk to her.

  11. If Demandred ends up being lame, after all the suspense. Honestly, I'd be disappointed if he's Roedran just cause everyone's been predicting that, and I want something grander.

     

    If Cyndane is just luring Rand into a trap, I'll be a bit disappointed. Unless the trap actually works for once. But if it's a simple fix that is over within the first 100 pages, then lame. Don't waste Cyndane please. I would love to see Lanfear return to the Light and die sealing the Bore with Rand.

     

    If, right after Tarmon Gaidon is over, the Seanchan completely invade Randland and declare it the new Seanchan Empire, and the book ends.

     

    If the ending is just way too predictable and cliche. God that will be somewhat boring, but I expect some generic ending.

     

    If Moiraine and Cadsuane don't get the confrontation they deserve. Cat fight!

     

    If we don't get any scene of Elayne taking another bath. She's a dirty girl obviously.

     

    If no one recognizes Verin's hard work

     

    If Min, Elayne, Aviendha, and Rand don't have an awesome foursome on the top of Dragonmount

     

    If Bela doesn't get a grand stable built in her honor by the end of the book

  12. I think she's the strongest, excepting Bera and Kiruna. I might be mistaken, though.

     

    EDIT: That's not it. The power scale goes (according to 13th depository's Linda):

    Level 10: Bera Harkin, Kiruna Nachiman

    Level 9: Faeldrin Harella, Masuri Sokawa, Rafela Cindal

    Level 8: Alanna Mosvani, Merana Ambrey, Seonid Traighan, Verin Mathwin

    (emboldened are the five present at the time).

    Of course, this doesn't take into consideration age, but Rafela is actually rather young, not much older than Moiraine. Perhaps it's that she's Blue, and they were dealing with prophecies (Greens don't seem to be considered helpful in that situation). Don't know.

    How is this measuring power? By strength in the One Power? And if so, do higher levels (e.g. Level 10) indicate higher performance/strength, or do lower levels (e.g. Level 1)? Where can a full list of this sort be found?

  13. So while we're on this topic, who is more advanced with Tel'aran'rhiod: Lanfear or Moghedian?

     

    Moghedian always claimed to be better than Lanfear, and Birgitte made some remarks suggesting the same. Yet one cannot deny that Lanfear is adeptly skilled at prowling through Tel'aran'rhiod and enterring people's dreams. In ToM, for instance, she even gets into Rand's dreams despite his blocks when she appears to him as Cyndane. And as far as I'm concerned, Moghedian's skill never impressed me. She allowed herself to be collared with an a'dam; Egwene, who has been a Dreamwalker for a much shorter amount of time, realized that if she didn't accept an a'dam as true there, she wouldn't be collared by it when Mesaana tries to collar her. So if Egwene, who has been enterring Tel'aran'rhiod for maybe a year and a half or two years tops, and probably not even that long, can do that, then why couldn't Moghedian if she is supposed to be the female Forsaken with most knowledge of TAR.

     

    I recall somewhere that Jordan or Sanderson mentioned there were at least two Forsaken, one male and one female, who were exceptionally well skilled at using TAR. The male is obviously Ishamael/Moridin, and I assumed the female was Lanfear, yet someone stated it was Moghedian.

  14. How could I forget these two, both from the same scene.

     

     

    1) "By the way, that dress you are wearing is green." - Verin (TGS) - I got shivers

     

    2) "I don't trust you. I don't think I ever have." - Egwene;

    "Very wise. I am, after all, of the Black Ajah." - Verin

     

  15. Not necessarily your favorite characters overall, but which characters shine most in which books? Mine:

     

    The Eye of the World: Rand, Moiraine, Thom (my favorite in this book), Lan

     

    The Great Hunt: Rand, Verin, Ingtar, Selene, Thom (again, probably my favorite in the book), Moiraine

     

    The Dragon Reborn: Moiraine, Thom, Perrin (he pretty much dominates this book with so many scenes)

     

    The Shadow Rising: Rand, Perrin, Nynaeve, Lanfear, Loial (although his actions are more off-screen - closing the Waygate and saving kids in Stone)

     

    The Fires of Heaven: Lanfear (bitch mode FTW), Moiraine, Rand, Rahvin, Mat, Asmodean

     

    That's as far as I've gotten in my re-read, so the rest of the books, while I recall significant things about them, I am a bit hazier on which books featured which characters prominently, and also on which one certain characters come into play, so I'll just wing it more and go with ones I'm absolutely certain of

     

    Lord of Chaos: Rand, Demandred (I liked the two scenes we had of him; so mysterious), Mat, Nynaeve

     

    A Crown of Swords: Sammael, Rand, Nynaeve, Mat, Mesaana

     

    The Path of Daggers: (I can't recall if Mat wasn't in this one, or if that was Winter's Heart), Rand ... my memory is hazy on standout moments in this novel, so I'll wait and see what others think here

     

    Winter's Heart: Nynaeve, Rand, Cyndane (slicing that dude's head off with Air)

     

    Crossroads of Twilight: God I have no idea. Mat was good I believe. Perrin bored me. I did like Mesaana in her one scene.

     

    Knife of Dreams: Semirhage, Rand, Mat, Min ... don't know who else (Perrin was better here)

     

    The Gathering Storm: Verin, Min, Egwene (I actually enjoyed her scenes in this one), Rand, Semirhage, Nynaeve

     

    Towers of Midnight: Mat, Mesaana, Perrin ...Rand, but he wasn't in it much (and Nynaeve)

  16. There are some really catchy quotes, those that are memorable and stick with you. What ones come to mind to you?

     

    One that I really like (I can't remember who says it) from Winter's Heart:

     

    "She's channeling saidin." - In response to Aran'gar seizing saidin during the Cleansing of Saidin

     

    Of course there's also

     

    "Kneal, or be knealt." - Taim (Lord of Chaos - post Dumai's Well battle)

     

     

    What other great ones come to mind?

  17. I would say over all it's probably Dumai's Wells. Just everything about it. Pure awesomeness. I'll list more later, and probably my favorite from each book as well.

     

    I did like all the scenes where Mesaana appeared in moonlight shadows; just the description of her appearance made her chilling and striking. Same of Semirhage's fiery illusion.

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