Egwene? Of all the characters, she ends up dead? Egwene?!

After all she went through?... The Seanchan, Halima, The Tower, Gawyn...

After all her efforts, not only to unite the tower for the last battle, but also to change its basic principals.

All in vain.

I was shocked! So much that, right till the last page of the book, I was expecting her to be brought back somehow.

 

Of all the main characters, SHE was the one that should have survived the last battle.

Rand did his job, fighting the Dark One.

Perrin did his job, saving Two Rivers and protecting the Dragon.

Mat did his job, as a general and with Mashadar.

Moiraine did her job, protecting the Dragon.

Lan did his job, avenging his fallen kingdom.

Nynaeve did her job, caring for them all.

 

Egwene was the one how's job was beyond the last battle. To finish what she started in the Tower, to bring all of the channelers together (or at least to remove the deep rifts between them), to protect them from the Seanchan.

Yet she was the one to bite the dust...

I can't say that her death bothered me much because I've never cared for the character, but I agree with you. I thought she was safe for sure. I thought they were clearly building to a long, long reign of Egwene the Magnificent Amrylin. I was completely shocked that she actually got killed. 

In TDR. How did Moiraine figure out that Lord Brend was Sammael after just being in town for a little while? Is he that obvious?

That one has never had a good answer. It mostly gets chocked up to "Moiraine is awesome".

Easily the most surprising death of the book for me. Just didn't seem to be how the plot was building towards the whole series - all that work to get her into place as the youngest Amyrlin, putting the Tower back together, getting the channeling groups to work together, etc. It seemed to have setup a long, long reign of Egwene the magnificent. I was sure she was safe. But she did at least get a pretty cool death scene.

My opinion of her in this book was pretty much the same as the rest of the series - I could find respect for her and her accomplishments in many places but found her to be utterly unlikable as a person and a character. Although the frantic pace and non-stop action of the book (she spends most of it fighting) made it easier to not notice how irritating she is.

Question:  Why do Tinkers sic their dogs on attackers? I thought they abhored violence to the point they'd rather let you kill them than raise a hand in defense. They'd rather run away than fight. They even try to convert anyone and everyone they can to the Way of the Leaf. So why do they find it okay to let their dogs attack and potentially kill whoever/whatever is threatening them?

The dogs are trained to look and sound intimidating, not to actually attack.

Question. Is Rand's channeling sickness ever explained. I assume it's related to his connection to the Dark One through Ishamael.

Yes, this will be answered in the future. Not for a long time though.

And yet ironically, for me it's one of the more believable romances because we see it happen, perhaps because RJ realised that this couldn't be a 'love at first sight' relationship so put more work into it.

I agree. They may not be a good match but at least the relationship had time to develop and grow in a fairly realistic manner.

The two that seemed the most forced with very little interaction between the couples before having intense feelings:

Rand and Elayne

Egwene and Gawyn

Most of the rest still have an element of feeling a bit forced but they at least have some build up and getting to know each other.

Hello,

 

 Does (approaching end of ToM in re-read prior to aMOL). . Does anyone outside of Perrin's followers/Faile know about his wolf related abilities? Mainly Mat, Thom etc. I know Rand has suspicions. It just struck me during Chapter 47: A teaching chamber that Mat didn't mention anything about this.

 

Many thanks

I believe the only ones that know for sure are:

Faile

Elyas

Moiraine

Lan

Egwene

The beginning of The Dragon Reborn?

Mat isn't with Rand and Perrin then, he's on his way to Tar Valon to be healed. They all converge at the end of tDR and they are all at the Stone of Tear at the start of tSR.

Question. Why was that guy who made inventions (tovere?) killed and do we ever find out who killed him? Anybody know who I am talking about? Maybe it was mentioned but either I missed it or I forgot

 

Herid Fel? He understood the true nature of the wheel and knew this battle has been fought many times before. Fel was on the verge of giving Rand the information needed to seal the bore so a gholam was sent to kill him...

I think he's talking about the guy that made the looking glasses and telescopes. As far as I can remember he's still alive and making ever more powerful telescopes at Rand's academy in Cairhien.

WH ch. 25, at the very end Verin is making tea for Cadsuane. This time through it seemed to me Verin was about to poison her. it says she puts away a vial unopened and thinks something like she was glad to finally be sure of Cad. Thoughts? It's probably the same substance she got (from a wise one i think) for sleeping. She was told take too much of it and she'd not wake. poison? or maybe an agent to help (her inferior form of) compulsion?

It was certainly poison. Cadsuane had a lot of influence on Rand and Verin wasn't going to allow her to continue that influence until she was certain that Cadsuane's goals weren't bad.

Does your average Asha'man use healing comparable to your average Aes Sedai/Wise One? By that I mean, when an Asha'man heals someone, does the strength come from the person being healed?

 

I was thinking that Taim was deliberately trying to incapacitate Rand during Dumai's Wells when he offered him healing during the fight. Rand had little strength as it was, and perhaps if that bit was drained from being healed, he would have been unable to countermand Taim's own orders during the battle.

I imagine it depends on the Asha'man just like with Aes Sedai but Taim has Flinn heal Rand IIRC and Flinn uses all five powers like the old days (and Nynaeve) and therefore it doesn't drain the healee like the regular AS healing does.

Avienda. I like the athletic hard body type.

Do we know that swearing to the DO involves the OP and thus will be affected by stilling/gentling? Non-chennelers swear to the DO as well, and it would make sence that they were just as bound to their oaths (to DO) as the channelers were.

Yes, we know they bind themselves with the Dark Oaths on the Oath Rod. That's why the Black Ajah hunters use it to remove the oaths and reswear them on their suspects and why Verin was looking for the Oath Rod before committing suicide.

Forgive me for not scrolling through 211 pages of posts for this answer...i'm short on time. anyway, in my current ReRead, i've just started FoH. In the prologue, we have Elaida's meeting with some Aes Sedai discussing Tower business and whatnot. At that meeting is Danelle. Forgive me if I'm wrong, cause it's been a short while, but she's the one that was eventually discovered as being Mesaana, right? I assume we don't know EXACTLY when that change took place, from being her to being Mesaana in disguise, but do we have a rough before/after point where the change is sure to have happened? I only ask because I read that section today and couldn't help but wonder if she was already there...

She's almost definitely Mesaana by then. The first hint of something strange we get from Danelle is when the Sisters walk in to dispose Suian and Danelle gives her a smirk. Check out the FAQ for a good discussion on the clues. There should be a link in the stickies at the top of the forums.

There are a lot of joke theories at Theoryland (though I've never heard of that one). Berelain=Moiraine, for example. Evil Min. And then there's Felix/Dida. You can never be sure if all his theories are a joke or if he really believes them.

 

I love Felix/Dida. He seems so sincere in his craziness. It's either a really good, funny act. Or he's amusingly crazy without knowing it. Entertaining (and crazy) either way.

 

We need to start a bring back Felix Pax campaign. DM is always more entertaining when he is around.

 

Also I've discussed this with Terez before but if you are willing to sift through all the nonsense, it's amazing how he will unearth things you've totally missed. Usually it's a passage that is totally unrelated to what he's trying to support but it turns into a light bulb moment for something you have been trying to work out.

Ha. Yeah, I wouldn't mind having him around again. Not sure he'll come back though, I don't think he likes Luckers and the mean admins here though.

There are a lot of joke theories at Theoryland (though I've never heard of that one). Berelain=Moiraine, for example. Evil Min. And then there's Felix/Dida. You can never be sure if all his theories are a joke or if he really believes them.

I love Felix/Dida. He seems so sincere in his craziness. It's either a really good, funny act. Or he's amusingly crazy without knowing it. Entertaining (and crazy) either way.

I heard some hints (most on Theoryland) that there is a theory that Faile is a Forsaken. Does this theory exist, or did I just read it the wrong way?

If it does it's a terrible theory (but not one I've seen on this site before). Do we even have any un-accounted for female forsaken? We get enough POVs from her during the Shaido captivity to know that she's on the up and up.

How does the artwork for the chapter icons? Siuan's fish is really cool.

Chapter icons are chosen (and designed I think) by Harriet.

Can anyone post the link to Theoryland's interview data base? I can't find it.

Here's Terez's database:

WoT Reference Library

Im rereading KoD and at the same time reading Leighs Wheel of time Rereads. Anyways, I was reading the part where Faile finds the oathrod and Rolan is there and says he wants to take her with him when he goes back to the Three-Fold Land, and Leigh talks about rape in our world vs Randland. One of the comments to that post was among other things this:

"I don't think its fair to say that rape doesn't exist in the WoT world. Rather, it's just not something focused on as there are bigger, more pressing matters at hand for the characters who get the most screen time.

 

Going by the 'rape isn't sex it's power, control, and humiliation definition used in the above recap there are many instances of rape or attempted rape in Randland:

 

EVERY damane ever, including Egwene"

 

Is he/she talking about actual rape or the mental process of violating/breaking someone?

Most likely the latter, since the Seanchan we have seen seem to view sleeping with a damane as the same as sleeping with a dog.

I was wondering...

 

what Halima´s purpose was with giving Egwene all those headaches. Seemed like a lame plan. What if her plan was to block Egwene´s prophetic dreams and thus hoping to hinder the Light side? What did Halima want?

Some people believe that Halima was using Compulsion on Egwene. I think she was just using it as a tool to keep herself around Egwene so she could influence her. Remember only Halima's massages could get rid of the headaches (or so Egwene thought).

Plot shields around major characters are certainly to be expected. For instance, as I recall, out of all the major and minor protagonists in THE LORD OF THE RINGS only Boromir and Theoden actually die, and of course Gandalf's supposed death in Moria was a red herring (even if it did serve the function of empowering him to overcome Saruman). But series like DUNE or GORMENGHAST or A SONG OF ICE AND FIRE show that you can incorporate the deaths of major characters and thereby enrich the story ... and I believe those are better works of fiction than WOT or TLOTR. Frankly, I wish Moiraine had been allowed to die a true and heroic death--not because I disliked her (I like her a lot) but because it would have leant gravitas and meaning to her sacrifice.

But I doubt the fact that some major characters die is the main (or even major) reason that people that view those works as superior to WoT feel that way. For example some things I have heard from Martin fans in comparison to Jordan (I haven't read those books yet so this is second hand) - the relationships are grittier and more realistic, the political intrigue is more in depth and realtistic, the world seems darker and grittier. Etc. Some main characters dying perhaps enhances that but it's not a real selling point and I would be willing to wager that the series would be just as good and beloved if he had found other ways to create tension rather than killing a character.

The sufferings, dismemberments, and endangerment of major characters are necessary for story development, and it's good that Jordan included a good deal of this, but they don't often seem to have a whole lot of impact, though I am grateful when they do.

And I wouldn't mind seeing more criticisms along the lines of - "The trials the characters face need to have more of an impact. Rand doesn't even care that he lost a hand so its not really a big deal." Instead all you hear is "People NEED to DIE!!" As if characters dying instantly increases the quality of the story being told.

I'm not saying that characters shouldn't ever die or that it can't be used to great effect in the story. I'm just saying its not the only way to create tension and its not some necessary and positive story telling device that will make a story always better.

Also, I like most of these characters. I'm not going to be particularly happy (not saying angry at the author, just sad) if characters I like end up dead. I'm certainly not going to root for it. To me the scene with Rand almost killing Min was just as effective in creating tension and a sense of danger as someone dying would have been.

Was Rand getting his hand blown off not proof that victory would be costly?

Was the scene of Rand being tortured in a collar and chocking the life out of his beloved Min not terrifying and tension filled? It was still disturbing and scary dispite Min not dying.

There's always this talk of plot armor in this series yet our main protaganist is nearly crippled (missing a hand, two unhealing wounds in his side, temporary near blindness, was tortured and beaten, is mostly insane), another major player Mat just lost an eye (this might have been more effective with a bit less foreshadowing as we were all expecting this to happen), the main female protaganist Egwene was captured and basically tortured. Etc. It's not like there has been no cost to the good guys. It's not like there has been no excitement or tension in the series. These people don't have to die to show that they aren't invincible.

I don't understand the mentality that hopes for death amongst characters that they are emotionally invested in. Death is not necessary to create conflict, excitement, or tension.

Hello,

A few years ago someone wanted me to read The Wheel of Time, to add to the conversation at work. I did so. I felt a little forced through it, but it was a fun ride. I have a question though.

At some point in the series the connection between Slayer and Isam was revealed to me. Not in the book. By the friend. I never saw it. I read through the series a second time, and still never saw the connection. Can anyone explain it to me, and how exactly it was revealed to us?

Slayer is some kind weird merging of Isam (Lan's cousin, the Malkier baby raised in the Blight), and Lord Luc (Rand's uncle) the brother to the daughter heir of Andor who was sent into the Aiel Waste (or maybe the Blight, I can't remember) by the Aes Sedai Keeper who had the Foretellings (including the one about the Dragon being reborn). The first mention of them is in the Great Hunt when Luc and Isam are mentioned together in the dark prophecy written in the dungeon. Throughout the books we see many instances of this strange combination. In The Shadow Rising, Perrin fights Slayer in T'A'R (a man that looks a little like Lan) and wounds him with an arrow. Then we see that Lord Luc is the one that is injured in the waking world. We see Slayer enter and exit T'A'R and shift between the two personas in later books. We have a point of view from Slayer that indicates that he can control which aspect he shifts to when he enters or leaves T'A'R.

Sorry, wish I had some quotes on this, this is all just memory. But you could use the WoT online encyclopedia and search for Slayer POVs and it should clearly show this info.