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Posts posted by Barid Bel Medar
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The Whitecloaks think the One Power corrupts. That much power in a person's hands is bound to make them power-hungry. They can throw fireballs at people with their minds (although they have the Oaths, the WCs don't believe it.) they live 200-300 years, don't get sick like normal people and their bodies stay young for a long time. That scares them. They also blame the One Power for the Breaking of the World (technically true, but was the Taint). They believe it is something like the Power of the Creator, and don't believe mortals are worthy of it.
Normal people fear them for much the same reason. It is something like if a soldier with a loaded gun walked down your street. Except you can't see the gun but know it's there and in seconds it could go off and kill you. At least with a soldier, you can see the person aiming at you. The Aes Sedai do it with their minds, all invisible to the normal eye.
Then they like meddling in affairs. As people know, an Aes Sedai can't lie, but she can twist the truth better than any liar. They also have a penchant for using people to their own ends (usually for the 'greater good' but it isn't a pleasant thought.) (Think of how Moiraine manipulates Rand and the other boys. Except for an Aes Sedai, she's one of the better ones.)
So it is more fear and suspicion rather than hate.
Although, I can assure you, once you read further, you will begin to understand why people don't like them much.
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I'm not sure about anyone else, but I often think: "Hey, that song fits me perfectly!"
So, the premise of this thread is songs that best encapsulate a WoT character, like the Darth Vader theme.
I'll start off with - much to everyone's surprise, I'm sure - Demandred.I chose the song "Be Prepared" sung by Jeremy Irons as Scar in The Lion King.
A few of the lyrics really strike me: (Bold in particular)
I know it sounds sordid but you'll be rewarded
When at last I am given my dues!
And in justice deliciously squared
Be prepared!
So prepare for the coup of the century
Be prepared for the murkiest scam
Meticulous planning tenacity spanning
Decades of denial is simply why I'll
Be king undisputed respected, saluted
And seen for the wonder I am
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I think we should get back on topic now, cheers.
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Sorry, back from LoA.
Anyway, Sabio is correct, it seems that this thread has gone out of control.
I'm not interested in who did what, plenty of tit-for-tat going on by everyone. I was away, and things developed before I could intervene. So I will leave it at that and not pursue it further.
One last chance to get back on topic and stop with the personal remarks, or the thread will be locked and appropriate action may be taken.
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Let's leave it at that with the discussion about Brandon Sanderson. The topic has been discussed in depth enough, let's not derail this thread. The question has been answered.
Although, I will leave it up to the OP to decide if they want to get into that debate, if so, I'll leave it up.
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Graendal blows it off while they are fighting at Shayol Ghul.
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That is correct. If you don't have the books handy to get the glossary pronunciations http://www.encyclopaedia-wot.org/ has most of them when you click on a character/place/item.
Edit: The site has Morgase as moor-GAYZ, which is pretty much moor-gaze as you pronounce it.
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I think the worse one for people has to be Taim.
I mean, come on, everyone reads it as TAME.
Ta-eem is too awkward.
I also read Egwene as Egg-ween not Eg-wain.
and Seanchan - Sen-chan not Shawn-chan.
Apart from them, I am cool with the pronunciations I think.
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Why do you see Slayer as an inconsistency or a mistake?
Apologies for the late reply.
I saw on twitter you already addressed the issue, and I would tend to agree.
But yeah, the fact that both Calian and Shivan turned up in tGH was the main issue I saw, with Slayer being alive.
Of course, it's totally possible that Shivan/Luc could be forced out when the Horn was blown.
I mentioned it as a possibly inconsistency like a kind of a tGH-ism because of the prophecy - "One did live, and one did die, but both are."
Perhaps at that point RJ intended Luc to have died and his soul returned to T'a'R, but Isam/Slayer retaining his memories and essence in whatever ritual was used by the Shadow.
Of course, we find out in aMoL that Luc/Isam are soul-bound in the same body, but was this always RJ's intention?
Besides, the Slayer PoV's are predominantly Isam who feels Luc as a lesser member of the two, particularly in the aMoL prologue. (Granted, this is just off memory and interpretation)
Anyhow, that's only conjecture. I would be perfectly happy with the explanation that since Luc was the one that 'died' - even if he was merged with Isam- the horn would have the power to call him when blown. That Slayer is often in T'a'R is even better,as surely actually being in T'a'R when the horn is blown would make the call stronger and harder to resist (if it can be).
It also brings up an interesting question about Slayer's powers. (Of course, I have no real evidence, again only conjecture) But we never really know why Slayer can do what he does. Yes, we get the explanation that the two soul thing lets him do the blinking between real/T'a'R, but it doesn't explain how he managed to reach T'a'R in the first place. Perrin manages it, but he was a Wolf-brother before the potential merging of souls with Hopper. It suggests that there needs to be an initial access to T'a'R for it to occur, and as far as I can recall, neither Luc nor Slayer had any Dreamwalking abilities.
RJ said that Slayer was a new thing, not old and that Slayer was not a corrupted Wolf-brother, so I doubt the Forsaken or DO could have guided him through T'a'R or he used the same method as Perrin.
I'd suggest that aside from assigning it to the DO's powers wholly (which is valid), it was a mixture of the DO and Luc-as-Shivan.
Basically, when Luc confronted Isam, he was defeated and killed. The DO - with the power to hold and transmigrate souls - caught Shivan-Luc's soul, who is a Hero. There is no indication that Luc was a darkfriend at any point, so it's probable that the DO didn't transmigrate him because he wouldn't be a loyal servant. Instead, Luc was merged with Isam, his killer, with Isam the dominant force in the merger.
This way, theoretically the dominant Isam Darkfriend would have control over T'a'R with Luc's innate abilities as a HotH.
Last of all- since this theory has gone way off topic, I'lll end it soon - Slayer would not have memories of a HotH if the DO caught Luc's soul before he entered the whole HotH T'a'R state. As we know, transmigration saves the person's memories from the previous life - as if they had not died at all. So in this case it would be sufficient to say that Luc still only had his Luc memories, as he had not fully 'died'.
Furthermore the parallel between Shiva and Luc's role is noticeable. Luc's actions are consistent with Shiva the Destroyer, as quoted by the WoT-Wiki "
(underline mine)
I believe Dom or someone may have pointed something similar out earlier. This is similar to Luc's role with Isam/Slayer as well as the reference to the changing of Ages.
@Jack - to get back on topic: HotH can take on any form they like, and they are not necessarily born - as we see with Rand/LTT - with the same physical features. After Tigraine died, she would no longer be Tigraine, but the Hero Calian. Calian is derived from Shiva's consort Kali in hindu mythology.
A few quotes from Kali's wiki page, I'll not paste the whole thing. Kali can be seen as destructive and all that crazy stuff, but also:
Kāli is the Goddess of Time and Change.
Hence her involvement in the Aiel when change was most needed.
As to her appearance, Kali in more modern times is associated with:
This also lends to the theory that she wanted to help Rand not only as her own son, but as her role as a kind of mother figure in general. Nakomi's appearance is certainly appropriate of a mother goddess figure.
Others have discussed the matter far better than I have I'm sure, that's just an outline.
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Ahh, thanks for the clarification. We will have to see if there is any clarification in the Encyclopaedia I guess. (If there is any to be had.)
Nonetheless, even if it is before you saw the notes, it is a good point, and it certainly makes sense. I like the theory above any other, because it fits WoT more than any of the above. The Slayer problem is less of a thematic problem, more of a mistake/inconsistency, whereas most other theories - while they may fit one - don't adequately explain why Rand and the Aiel were singled out.
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Here is some more info from Terez on the matter:
The "something deep in the notes" might have been as simple as this: Calian and Shivan are Tigraine and Luc.
It's the only thing that fits everything that @BrandSanderson has said about Nakomi. Why she had an interest in both the Aiel and Rand.
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It was certainly strange. Both Birgitte and Hopper seemed to act as if it were possible, however, it may be anxiety of the Tower in general. I doubt Hopper would know if it were possible to enter the Tower via TAR, I don't think wolves go near it, nor go through it (admittedly, I don't know, but I find it hard to believe wolves going through to the Finns and getting answers/wishes).
Birgitte's caution is also justified. She remembers going through and how dangerous it is in general. She may have just been warning him not to explore the Tower any further (which may lead him to enter in the real world).
At least, that's what I suppose in any case. Unless RJ had made a mistake or the transcription of the interview is wrong, it does seem strange.
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I'm not aware of any statement about slayer, do you remember where it was?
As it is, I use this:
INTERVIEW: Oct 9th, 1996ACOS Signing Report - Erica Sadun (Paraphrased)ERICA SADUNWhat was going on in Aelfland when Mat went round and round and round the same location? Were they traveling in time?ROBERT JORDANNot traveling in time. The physical laws of nature differ. Mentioning the Dark One [in Randland] is bad luck. In Aelfland, it is *REALLY* bad. You cannot go to Aelfland in Tel'aran'rhiod (similar to stedding).The applicable in bold.There are also signs in aMoL, but this topic is reserved for non-aMoL spoiler questions. -
To get Lanfear out of there, I think that the Dark One sent Morridin to the land of the Finns to kill her. Since the Dark One is Lord of the Grave he could then take her soul and give her a new body. I think this would also be, in the eyes of the DO, a good punishment for her failure to convert Rand, she loses her beauty.
Almost. Luc/Isam was sent.
It most likely was Moridin, not Slayer. Despite what it looks like, you can't enter the TG from T'A'R as per RJ, so Slayer didn't really go in there - he just jumped away from Perrin in tSR.
So when a channeler creates a flow of something. are they creating that element from scratch? or does it do something like create a flow which only interacts with that particular element?
Like, if a channeler was trapped somewhere with limited air and water, Could they use flows of water and flows of air to keep themselves alive?
They draw upon the True Source which is like the 'well' of the OP for all their channelling needs. So yeah, effectively if someone knew how to create Oxygen (I'm not sure if it's possible) they could keep themselves alive with the OP.
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The final name is the honour.
Lews Therin was born with that - Telamon was the honourific.
INTERVIEW: Apr, 2003Budapest Q&A (Verbatim)QUESTIONDoes Telamon mean "dragon" or does it mean "Kinslayer" or is it something else?
ROBERT JORDAN
What? In Lews Therin Telamon? No, no. It means something else. That's his name. Lews Therin is the name he was born with. Telamon, a name he was given later.
JordanCon 2013 - Q&A with Maria (Verbatim)TEREZI'm pretty sure I know the answer to this one, but in the Age of Legends, was the middle or the third name the honorific? Like, Lews Therin was his first and last name, and Telamon is the third name that he got when...MARIA SIMONSYeah. Like Berid Bel, and then Medar.Edit: I'm not sure what's the deal with Ilyena. It may be a mistake or something to do with marriage customs. -
My rankings often change on re-reads and such so it's not really a fixed thing, but here are my current rankings.
1. FoH
2. EotW
3. tSR
4. LoC
5. tGH
6. WH
7. tDR
8. KoD
9. ACoS
10. PoD
11. tGS
12. CoT
13. aMoL
14. ToM
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1. The Black Ajah were purged from the Tower at this point, only Mesaana remained because she could get around the Oaths. So no, they didn't bother looking for them since they were not in the Tower.
2. No idea. I don't think she does much thinking any more.
3. It was destroyed.
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Also remember that this is Elayne and Nynaeve. They aren't very good in TaR. They aren't Dreamwalkers like Egwene.
It's possible they aren't experienced enough to do anything beyond what they did.
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At the time, nobody knew what the DO was. The whole father of lies and such is a third age thing. All they knew is this god-like power is granting them all this awesome stuff and says he will make them immortal. It wasn't until later on that they discovered the true nature of the DO, and many had already gone over - it was too late to go back.
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Well Lews Therin WAS better in all other areas.
He was stronger in the Power, more skilled at weaves etc..
At the point Lews Therin was made Ta'veren, Demandred was already on his way to the Shadow.
I doubt Demandred would have done better than Lews Therin as the Dragon.
However, it is interesting to note that Demandred, Be'lal and Sammael all betrayed the Light because of Lews Therin. (However, although he was a bit of an ass, it could be that they Sammael and Be'lal would have turned if it was Demandred. They seemed jealous of the power. Demandred's hatred was specifically Lews Therin because of all the crap he endured over 390 odd years.)
(Also, it is Lews Therin's soul that is the Champion of Light, so it was already decided, even if others were better suited.)
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Probably not at war.
However, Lews Therin wasn't ta'veren his whole life. He was most likely only ta'veren when the war started.
I think that's why Demandred was so pissed when he was given overall command. For once in his life he was better at Lews Therin - then the Pattern comes along and makes him ta'veren and gives him the edge.
Note: There is no direct confirmation that Lews Therin was Ta'veren, but it is extremely unlike he wasn't.
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I think Demandred is an extremely sympathetic character. He basically hated the Pattern for being an ass.
I mean, the guy was even born the day after Lews Therin, it was like the Pattern hated him. He spend 396 years of just losing out to Lews Therin - when he finds something he is better at, the Pattern goes all ta'veren and puts Lews Therin ahead again.
I mean, it doesn't excuse all the crap he did as one of the Forsaken, but the guy had a point. He didn't do any of it because he liked killing. In fact, Demandred never enjoyed war, or killing people. His frustration was built up for so long he couldn't contain it - and Demandred emerged from the second greatest man of the age.
It's a tragic story.
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It was the only thing Demandred equalled Lews Therin in. It isn't clear if he was better or not. I'd say yes purely because Lews Therin was softer than Demandred and wouldn't take the risks Demandred would. However, Lews Therin was given command because he was ta'veren and much more charismatic.
No wonder Barid was pissed.
And considering how that turned out for the Light, he wasn't exactly wrong in thinking Lews Therin didn't have what it takes to win either.
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It is possible, but we don't really have the answers. RJ never said anything like that, he likely didn't even think of the possibility.
So it is theoretically possible, but there is no way we will get an answer.
What character do u hate the most ?
in Wheel of Time Books
Posted
Hey! welcome to the forums! A nice topic you have there :P
Personally, I don't actually 'hate' any character but I'll go through a list of usual suspects.
Nynaeve is interesting. People's opinion of her changes as the series progresses. Funnily it is in book 7 when opinion's start to change, and by the end of the series, she becomes on of the most beloved characters. (In general from experience)
Egwene is probably one of the most disliked characters and certainly caused a lot of controversy among fans. You either love her or hate her it seems. The feeling changes again towards the end of the series.
Faile is another one of the most hated characters. Personally I think it's Perrin's PoV that makes it seem like she is so irritating, but she herself is actually cool, but there is a lot of hate for her.
Gawyn: Pretty much disliked universally, perhaps not 'hated' because he's not really a main character. If I had to pick my most disliked it would be him. I don't mind people being stupid or petty for good story reasons, but Gawyn is completely irrational and ridiculous.
Cadsuane: gets a lot of hate, not much like for the woman who stands up to the Dragon Reborn. I don't mind her personally.
Probably others, but they are the main ones.