Hey there !

Having read all the comments there's one feeling I can't rid myself off :

- Given the whole "1 guy 3 girls" thing would probably feel dated and downright sexist today

- Given how they portrayed Min & Aviendha's introduction.

... I kind of fear that Tuon/Faile 's roles will be removed or changed without the love relationship with Mat/Perrin respectively.

EDIT .... and that Min & Aviendha will take these roles.

I don't know what to make of this but that's nagging at me.

 

Do we have comments from Sanderson/Judkins/Someone else that disproves this ?

 

The episode is great !

He has matured a lot imho. Mostly due to the facts around him. Remember his thoughts about Jain's last stand in ToG. He says something along the lines of "He had seen too many men die on the battlefield for "honor" to dismiss the notion outright". Sorry it's not the exact quote, don't have a pdf for ToM.

Just wondering about the nature of the Forsaken/Moridin.

 

My first question is, how many "living" days does the forsaken actually have? Has there been any estimation on that?

 

And second, as Elan Morin Tedronai joined the DO out of logic, does this mean that his particular soul is bound to the shadow? (as he's been fighting the Dragon since, well, since ever..)

The forsaken didn't "live" during those 3000 years in prison. They were in some sort of hibernation, a dreamless sleep.

BUT, before they were caught by Lews Therin, they were well known Aes Sedai whose lives could span hundrerd of years, so you can safely say that they all are a couple of hundred years old.

Moridin has been free at many points during those 3000 years but I don't know if we have more information on how that add up. A couple of months every 20 years ? That would mean a few decades of life for him.

So I've been having an argument with my brother about Rand touching the True Source. He does in fact touch in ToM when he breaks out of the adam that Semi puts on him? By embracing through Shai'tan (oooo I said it!) From the WoT wiki it states that: "The True Power is also only available to Channelers whom the Dark One allows to wield it."

 

So does that mean the dark one left a link on Rand just in case he decided to fall to the shadow?

 

In which case wouldn't he be able to find Rand wherever he went?

Much like Rand's connection with Moridin.

 

While he argues that what Rand touches is the creator's equivalent of the True Source and is remarkably similar. Thus accounting for Semi why the Great Lord had betrayed her.

 

 

Most believe that Rand drew on the true source through his link with Moridin and not directly.

There is an argument to be made. I don't see why it HAS to be through Moridin. I would rather believe that the DO doesn't need to "touch" Rand in any way to allow him to tap the True Power. Just like the one power. THe ability is just there. So the DO allowed Rand to have this ability.

We'll RAFO I guess.

Carefully she wove Spirit, a flow of over a hundred threads,

every thread placed just so, and laid the weave on Aviendha

sitting on the floor, then did the same to Min on the table's

edge. In a way, they were not two separate weaves at all. They

glowed with a precise similarity, and it seemed that looking

at one, she saw the other as well. These were not the weaves

used in the adoption ceremony, but they used the same

principles. They included; what happened to one meshed in that

weave, happened to all in it. As soon as the weaves were in

place, she passed the lead of the circle of two to Aviendha.

The weaves already made remained, and Aviendha immediately

wove identical weaves around Elayne, and around Min again,

blending that one until it was indistinguishable from Elayne's

before passing control back. They did that very easily now,

after a great deal of practice. Four weaves, or rather, three

now, yet they all seemed the same weave.

Everything was ready. Aviendha was a rock of confidence as

strong as anything Elayne had ever felt from Birgitte. Min sat

gripping the edge of the table, her ankles locked together;

she could not see the flows, but she gave an assured grin that

was only spoiled a little when she licked her lips. Elayne

breathed deeply. To her eyes, they three were surrounded and

connected by a tracery of Spirit that made the finest lace

seem drab. Now if only it worked as she believed it would.

From each of them, she extended the weave in narrow lines

toward Rand, twisting the three lines into one, changing it

into the Warder bond. That, she laid on Rand as softly as if

she were laying a blanket on a baby. The spiderweb of Spirit

settled around him, settled into him. He did not even blink,

but it was done. She let go of saidar. Done.

it seems you're right. Although the description of the weave is a bit misleading. The rest of the capter implies that Min senses Rand but nobody else. While Elayne senses Birgitte, Aviendha and Rand, for example.

Will Dragonmount errupt before the end? .. I know there aint no certain answer for it, but there'll be opinions and thoughts or such, no?

 

Personally I thougth it would came to that first time reading the title of FoH, .. but no.

I expeted it at least to start rumbling as of TGS or ToM. Ah well, DM still has time in aMoL.

I'm not sure it would fit in the story. What purpose would it accomplish ? would it fulfill any prophecy ?

Anybody who knows something about OP and AS-warder bonds and knows about the Min-Rand bond will wonder what exactly happened since Min is not a channeler.

Maybe Cadsuane, Merise, & co. write it off as Rand having bonded Min rather than the other way around.

Mat knows about the Min-Rand relationship; I don't think he knows about the bonding unless Elayne/ Brigitte told him off-screen.

Do the WOs know about Avi's bond with Rand? Most probably - they were around in the Caemlyn Palace and they could simply have ordered her to tell them what on Earth was going on with that weird usage of OP, if they felt it.

Rand's bonds:

- Alanna bonded Rand

- Elayne bonded Birgitte

- Avi and Elayne adopted eachother as first sisters (thanks Amys)

- Elayne/Avi created an Aiel sort of bond (the same kind Amys did for her and Avi) between Rand/Avi/Elayne/Min).

 

So Min didn't "bond" Rand no more than Rand "bonded" Min. Elayne and Avi together created the weave that included all 4 of them. It's not "the other way around", it's a real four-some bond going all direction. All four feel the three others. With a bit of Birgitte and Alanna in the mix.

Heres my question: now that Saidin has been cleansed, is it safe to enter the ways again? I wonder with the taint gone what effect it would have on Machin Shin.

It took decades or even hundred of years for Machin Sin to form and render the Ways unusable. You could argue that it would also take time for it to get cleaned up (IF the taint was the reason for it's creation in the first place).

Also, consider that Fain had some troubling interraction with Machin Sin and we don't really know how it behaves NOW.

Could Rand have channeled instead? doing something to Mordeth in the process.

Or maybe Mordeth wasn't all that powerfull and what he tried to do hurt him?

 

Best guess is on Rand channeling but who knows ...

There are some just plain bad books in the middle of the series, no doubt. If you have made it through CoT, you're almost through the worst. The next book, Knife of Dreams, is also awful. But then the last two are better. Not up to the standard of the first five books, but better.

KoD is also awfull ??? General opinion seems it's one of the best. It's a matter of taste, people. Please just grow up and stop saying "this one is good, this one is bad". You totally have the right to believe what you want, but please don't try to make it an absolute truth. It's YOUR opinion, and no more than that.

1. Moridin doesnt know things from past lives in the same way Rand has. He was a philosipher as Elan. He speculated the nature of all of this stuff, just so happens he was right.

 

2. Would you tell the people who work for you that they are helping destroy existance itself? No, you offer them what they want. Power, glory, riches.

 

Moridin only knows because he figured it out, and is fine with the whole destruction of existance.

Although I know you're probably right, I can't feel really satisfied by that answer. Thanks anyway :) I thought they would be smarter.

Question:

Was is it that Moridin seems to be the only one among the Forsaken to remember the countless fightings and turnings of the Wheel. Other Chosen should be in the same kind of mental "disorder" of they also knew, shouldn't they ? They only seem to remember the AoL.

Also, why don't the other Chosen understand that the DO wants to kill time, turn everything into nothing ?

 

I'm rereading the series and I have a few more related (to each other) questions:

 

In TGH, Liandrin Sedai hands the three girls over to High Lady Suroth specifically so that Egwene and Nynaeve can be shipped to the other side of the sea. This is because the Dark side (read Ishamael) thinks that Egwene and Nynaeve are going to save Rand at some point.

-What makes him think this? Can he foretell or something?

-Why not just get Liandrin to murder them?

-Have the girls saved Rand yet?

 

Is "save" really the right word ? I thought it was more something like "these girls are very important if close to Rand".

 

Anyway, at that time, it was probably too early to murder them, without knowing what was their purpose. Anyway, I agree with you, it still feels strange.

Hi, I'm in the middle of TFOH and I've noticed that Nyneave makes a reference to "Only wild beasts appeared in TAR while the domesticated ones stayed home." (I might be reformulating a bit). Has there been any explanation ever on this?

Not that I can remember. It seems a little odd or even out of place. As if it was something RJ missed during an editing, or something like that.

Mogy seemed quite terrified to know Rand was there in the flesh, and yet The Chosen do it..... do you think it could be a lie?

Moggy was terrified because when you're there in the flesh, you're far more powerfull than when dreaming. Powerfull with the OP, and powerfull with the rules of TAR as well, if I remember correctly. So Mogy was just affraid that Rand (and or Rahvin, I guess that's the event you're reffering to) would blow Nyneave and her up without even knowing... as collateral damage of their fight against each other.

Where does the Common language come from ? It seems unlikely (irrealistic), given the lack of linguistic link between the Old Tongue and Common, that the new one evolved from the old one so as to be unrecognisable.

Do Ogier still have one of those talismans of growing for expanding the Ways?  If so why not just make one in the blight to sick that evil fart on the DO

I don't understand. Create a Waygate in the Blight and let Mashadar out ??

Thanks im actually theorising that Rand will be killed before the Last Battle and brought back by the Horn (to live he must die)

I can't imagine the state of deep despair the good guys will feel in when TG shows up and Rand died a few days ago...

A wide field, millions of Trollocs, a handfull of soldiers (ok not a handfull, but you see what I mean) ... Mat blows the Horn... "yeah it's TG, bloody ashes, even if Rand's not here we have to do SOMETHING"... and then Rand shows up, and it's a giant fireworks.

Ok, I have one; How does a Forsaken or whomever actually go about "Getting permission" to channel the TP? Is it some internal dialogue they have with the DO in their head which gives them instant permission. Or do they have to travel to SG and ask in person or what? How long of a process is it? Do we even have a clue on any of that?

I don't thing we have any insight.

Anyhow, we can imagine a few things: Rand saw the TP source just like he sees Saidin so you can imagine that the DO does something to make the Forsaken "see" the TP source.

I'd like to know if anyone knows what the relationship with LTT & Ishy/Moridin is?

I had a thought that maybe Ishy was LTT's brother.

Does anyone knows?

I didn't think they were related in any way.

 

"Luke, I ...  AM ... YOUR ... COUSIN FIRST REMOVED ON YOUR MOTHER's SIDE"

 

 

Do portal stones link to places that are persistent worlds?  To put it another way is the world we are reading about is also an alternate reality relative to all others?

As far as I have understood book 2 and 4, the answer Selene and Moirane and Verin seem to give is "yes" (I believe they are the only three talking about portal stones but I may be mistaken). They are alternate realities that can happen, and do happen.

Oh, by the way...

somewhere buried in the first 50 pages of this thread, there is something about a discussion going on in another forum about the BUT, and Brandon had read it and confirmed that they hadn't find the BUT ... the LFM was among the things discussed, I believe...

How strong is Rand now he has no Choedan Kal. Is he still getting more powerful or is just like the rest of his Asha'man.  Will he truly have all of LT abilities, or not?

 

Will he get back the little fat man when he meets up with Perin again.  Surely it was with the stuff that Fiale confiscated from the Shaido Aiel?

Rand is every bit as strong as Ishamael was, as LTT was... the strongest there is.

 

The little fat man has been debated here a lot (in the BUT thread also, I believe) but I don't remember that part where Fail would have taken things from the Shaido. But anyway, Rand had the LFM angreal on him when he was captured, and the Shaido didn't get their hands on him an any moment. I can't see how they would have had the opportunity to get the LMF.

I'm pretty sure we can't know this, but are there True Power angreal?

You're right, we don't know.

Some thoughts on that:

- TP is deadly adictive

- Building Angreals needs some tough researching and time

- The War of Power didn't last very long

 

My own conclusion is that no, there isn't any. But it's by no means a proof. Just an opinion.

 

Doesn't she comment that in one of the futures she saw at Rhuidean(sp?) that she actually seduced him and the end result was disastrous?

I remember that also.