7 hours ago, lelikaleli said:

In what book (part 1 or 2?) they got married? I need to know as soon as possible, thanks in advance

they got married in A Crown of Swords but the actual ceremony isn't on the page. 

3 hours ago, Ryrin said:

I think Daniel will do Lan proud. He’ll have the piercing gaze and physical presence.

He's going to have to hit the gym. One of the funniest moments in Crown of Swords is when Nyneave punches Lan in the stomach and hurts her hand and he barely seems to notice. 

11 minutes ago, JenniferL said:

It’s really funny to me how many people (men, mostly) think Lan isn’t supposed to be attractive. Yet if you ask women, we all agree that Lan is hot and we approve of Daniel’s casting. Women practically throw themselves at Lan throughout the books, Moiraine even thinks about how many women he’s been with in The Great Hunt. Lan is supposed to be good looking. 

I think Lan is supposed to be attractive in a sort of extremely masculine way, rather than pretty boy, boy band member sort of way.

From memory Egwene cant see why Nyneave is attracted to him when she is thinking about it in Tear. 

1 hour ago, Dagon Thyne said:

According to RJ, Saldeans are based on North Africans.  Large hooked noses are actually quite common in north Africa, especialy morocco.  

Fair enough if that is what RJ said

WOT wiki says

"Saldaeans have bold, prominent noses and slightly upturned, almond-shaped eyes. While as ferocious in battle as any of the Border nations, their equestrian skills are undoubtedly superior; no other nation in Randland can match Saldaea for her famed and effective use of light cavalry"

Which doesn't exactly match North Africans.  

8 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

*Shrugs*

I don't see the word Egyptian or Asian anywhere in there.

I've always pictured the actor who plays Faile as looking somewhat Asian, maybe native american, or even from India.

Or central Asian and the preponderance of cavalry would also suggest that as an inspiration. The Turks are often cited as what the people of Saldaea look like (that would be in their original tribes not the people of modern day Turkey) 

3 hours ago, RDY said:

According to cover art (from The Eye of the World and New Spring) Moiraine should've brown hair. No other artist has drawn her like that except for Darrel Sweet. 

Well fair enough there but the Morraine he illustrated on the cover of EOTW fits in every other respect. Height, staff, stone on forehead. Also everyone else fits their book description reasonable well. 

In any case it doesn't really matter as some of the borderlanders are central Asian, so making  those on the eastern side Korean makes sense. An example of bringing greater diversity into WOT universe that is respectful to the source material and makes logical sense. 

21 minutes ago, DemandredFO said:

First of all, lets not get another thread locked. Second, to my remembering Lan is never described, at least other plains and angles. RJ describes everyone else but beyond what I said above, I don't remember anything more.

Lan is the most prominent character on the EOTW cover. 

I've got the double cover, first with him in profile and then underneath with him looking toward the reader. 

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

I never thought of Lan as asian TBPH.  He is never described as looking as such in the books that I remember.  

I doubt he is in the books either, but given the different ethnic origins of Saldaeans it makes sense to simplify matters and make all the borderlanders Asian or central Asian.

Guy looks Ok, probably needs to bulk up a bit, but at least he doesn't have the potential to ruin the show. Unlike with another casting which we cannot discuss.  

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

To be honest, I can only think of two male/female friendships in the books which are completely void of any hidden romantic feelings...  Moiraine/Lan, and Mat/Elayne ( I hope they leave the scenes where he teaches her to curse like a drunken sailor)

 

Even Perrin/Egwene in EOTW had hints that they both had feelings for each other to some degree.  

Mat/Birgitte is also platonic. Mat even has a long section when he thinks about how he thinks of Birgitte as if she were a man. 

4 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

Well, they said they want to take away the more "Patriachtic" aspects of their relationship.  In the books, it's three women who drudgingly decide to share the man they all love.    They want tu turn it into a more polyamorous relationship, and I don't see how they can have that with men, unless they rewrite her entire character and expand it.  

I think it is only "patriarchal" if you choose to view it as such. All three women have fallen in love and want to be with Rand as a result. It is not as if it were a system of arranged marriages that ended up with one man and three women.

The Aiel, who are the only ones who practice polygamy that we see, are practically matriarchal in some of their customs. It is hard to hold it up as Patriarchal when it is the woman who proposes together with the whole concept of sister wives. 

To me it is a core part of the story and would be a shame if discarded for politicisation of the show.  Further to which I think that you root for Min to get to him more than the other three because she isn't super powered or a princess. Hence going back to her character being short changed if she just hangs around in the friend zone. 

10 hours ago, Dagon Thyne said:

I think that they will cut out Min loving Rand, and make it more of a plantonic thing.  While turning Elayne & Aviendha into a three way relationship where Rand loves both of them, and they him, and they are in love with each other as well.  (which will make the 4 page bath scenes far more interesting).  They've already talked about the bringing same sex relationships more into the forefront.  They was also speculation about Egwene and Elayne being pillowfriends during their time as novices.  

 

As for Min, I think they will turn her into more of a guide.  She will be driven by the pattern to aid Rand.  And will work to keep him "down to earth" the same as she does in the books.  But the romantic aspects will be cut out.  

I don't see why really. If Rand can fall in love with two women why not three?. In fact three really highlights the bizarreness of the situation in regard to the pattern willing him to fall in love with three women to exactly the same degree. 

Also when reading you are really willing Min to be able to get to Rand and get her man. Not sure why some are happy to see Min short changed.  

43 minutes ago, DemandredFO said:

I really they'd left pillow friends on the cutting room floor but as they're obviously not, I just hope it's done tastefully, not a sex-measuring contest with GOT.

I don't see why?, it is part of the WOT universe after all and entirely understandable given the circumstances of Aes Sedai and their trainees. Just because it is included doesn't mean they have to make it Lesbian porn after all, could be just a few meaningful looks and kissing scenes  for all we know.

As above there are vast reams of the books you can cut out without affecting the core story.

Also not only does Min have a key role in the story but Elayne does as well. Her Andor plot dragged on well too long but before that her teaming up with Nynaeve (and later Aviendha, Birgitte and Matt) gives you most of the more light hearted moments in the middle books. Just rereading Crown of swords at the moment and those chapters have been the most entertaining so far. 

3 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

*Shrugs* I was thinking it was closer to 20,000 years.

Dammit Sanderson!

 

Either way, there's a glaring issue. This isn't Earth.. (Well, maybe it is. but that's a discussion for another time)

A) The genes that have those physical traits already existed 4000+ years ago.

B) There's a lack of natural selection due to Technology & Magic.

 

What I'm saying is, there is no advantage to being white, or black, in those climates that prevents people from having offspring, causing certain genes to become more prevalent.

We also have a vastly different culture 4000+ years ago in Randland, then Earth did 8000 years ago.

Less Hunter-Gatherer, more 1500's europe/agriculture/kingdoms.

Less men having 10 kids with 50 women to more marriages, with 16 kids.

Well as you say it may well be earth or an alternative earth and four thousand years is ample time to achieve the changes required if there are already the genes present in the population (which would already be there in a mixed race population which is what many are proposing).

I am not sure what technology/magic is supposed to prevent natural selection. Medical care in the village for the past two thousand years has consisted of one woman who beats people with a stick when they annoy her. Sometimes that woman has been an untrained one source wielder (though almost certainly not as effective in healing as Nynaeve) other times she will have had no power whatsoever and is reliant on local herbs. Mortality is clearly quite high as we have had two characters who have lost three parents in early middle age(Rand and Nynaeve).

I'm not sure you are realising how valuable vitamin D is in a world without antibiotics and vaccinations. Until recently even diseases like Tonsillitis could kill children.

The other mutation in Europe favoured by natural selection was dairy tolerance. As cows milk is another good source of vitamin D. Again this spread to become dominant because natural selection was so strong.

To sum it all up whatever race ended up in the Two Rivers after the breaking four thousand years is plenty to make them all appear like current day Welsh. 

4 minutes ago, SinisterDeath said:

Possibly?

It's only been 4000 years since the breaking?, which is like 1/5th the amount of time it took for the genetic variation that led to white skin.

We also lack a natural selection tool that would cause genetic lines to die off due to climate.

The exception to this is the Aiel. They live in such a hostile environment that the weakest of them will/did die off... or at least, wandered off to become the Tinkers.

Not sure of the timeframe you have there?. I cannot find anything to suggest such a long timeframe online. All I can find is that most Europeans had much darker skin 8,000 years ago and then new settlers came from the near east and the new genes for lighter skin quickly swept the continent.

It doesn't require a natural disaster just the natural evolutionary advantage of being able to process Vitamin D in a cooler environment without as much strong sunlight, given how crucial Vitamin D is to human health.

1 hour ago, CUBAREY said:

From Maria's statement : " RJ Did have a list of actors he said the characters resembled"

 

 

I will take Sandrson's tact and say the changes due to Rafe's own vision. And as Sandrson also said its okay to disagee with another person's vision when looking at changes in an adaptation. I just simply think that due to the isolation of the Two Rivers and therefore the necessary inbreeding that occured over 2 thousand years having a racially diverse cast of Emmond's Fielder's is a step too far.

 

Another point to mention on that is that humans adapt to their environment, it just takes a while. Trace the line back far enough and the fairest of northern Europeans has an African ancestor. The Two Rivers has a northern European climate and after a few thousand years the people would likely look likewise, whatever their starting origins.

6 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

Isn’t there a mention at some point of Morgase visiting the Two Rivers at some point in her youth, or is my memory playing tricks on me?

No she had heard the accent in her youth, not visited the place (my memory isn't that good just on a reread so read EOTW a few months back)

7 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

 

There really is no guarantee that the original Manetheren's were all one 'ethnicity'.
But if we do assume that RJ assigned a different Ethnicity to every one of the 10 nations, why would he make Manetheren the same as Aridhol or Coremanda?.The places that are now Andor and Cairhien?
 

He didn't.

There are lots of indications that the Two Rivers folk are based on the Welsh. So they are Wales, just as Andor is England and Cairhein France. 

To return to the casting argument Welsh folk are often described as smaller and darker (and the pure Cornish are often described the same), Genetically I think it is had now been shown that originally many came from the Basque region in Spain. There are pockets of older people's throughout northern Europe not all the people's there are Germanic. 

8 hours ago, MasterAblar said:

 

To be fair you could argue that the reason Robert Jordan doesn’t really specify clearly their skin color is because he himself fell into the trap of not describing people of the same appearance as he as thoroughly as people of different skin color. Personally I think that’s the most likely “explanation”.

 

Regardless like I said above skin color has no impact whatsoever on the story so I think Robert Jordan would be mostly annoyed that people are focusing so hard on this point.

As a firm supporter of Nyneave my main annoyance of the casting is that she looks nothing like her in any other respect either. The actress who plays Egwene is of mixed race and has the delicate features you would expect of her character from the books.

Nynaeve is also a very hard character to get right and probably needed someone of the calibre of who they selected for Morraine. 

By contrast the main physical impression you get of Perrin from the books. Is big guy with a beard and if the guy they selected is any good I doubt it will ruin Perrin for them on the show.

All the usual social media hysteria shouldn't hide what is important. Having actors who can credible portray their book characters.  

15 minutes ago, Polskija said:

 

Bows would be effective in Wheel of time with the lack of heavy armor and shields. 

 

They would be effective just as they have been effective in many times in our history they just wouldn't be wiping out entire armies in minutes. Even the Mongols, with tens of thousands of horse archers, weren't as devastating as Mat's heavy crossbowmen, or the two rivers bowmen at times. There is a difference between being effective and being massively overpowered. 

10 minutes ago, JakeSt4r said:

I could go on and on, but the point is, we don't think about all the brutality that happens throughout the books, because there's more to WoT than just brutality. There's humor, romance, and hope thrown in there to balance out the brutality, and those are the things we remember. Nobody thinks about the battlefields strewn with so much dead that the amount of blood soaking the ground turned it to mud. Nobody remembers Mat's dagger causing a man to melt at the end of TGH. Nobody dwells on these things because in the end, there's so much more to the story than people killing each other. 

I like this point. The light balancing the dark, yes I can see that and it is part of what makes it still so entertaining on rereads. All of Nyneave's POV chapters in books four through six are gems (looks at casting again and shakes head). 

But just to reiterate my earlier point, perhaps I have a stronger stomach, but I rarely find anything disturbing in WOT and added to that, to me, it is more the assumptions and behaviours that make it a more sanitised world suitable for young adults, rather than the events written as such. 

30 minutes ago, Polskija said:

 

The early years are mostly because of the armor. People even in battles are mostly seen wearing chainmail and hardly any use plate armors and even Shienarans don't use full plate armors, which in our world became more and more prominent in 1200's and up. Earliest gunpowder weapons (as we see in books) were invented in 1000's. 

From what little I understand from clothing is what the women wear there are examples of high collared dresses of renaissance 1500 and later. 

 

edit: Sort of off-topic, but I'm also a bit frustrated with the lack of shields on the nations. A lot of them are using light armour and two handed weapons while bows and even (TR)longbows exist. Shields only started to leave the picture when armor could withstand arrows. 

People used armour and shields because they were efficient protection and if you had the money (as at least the lords and professional soldiers would have), you'd have the best protection you can afford when going into battle. 

Oh yes, the armour. I just think you have to bear in mind that many fantasy authors have little idea of medieval warfare. Armour is costume and never seems to have any bearing on the fighting. Unarmoured Aiel usually being untroubled by heavy cavalry is one of the glaring examples of this. 

The other flaw in the writing is the overpowering of projectile weapons.

The one thing that reads true in the battle descriptions is the importance of pikemen in good formation.   

10 minutes ago, Deadsy said:

I don't think anyone thinks Min should be cut. People are just being realistic and trying to think of possibilities for what the TV show might do, and Min has been mentioned because Rafe said Rand isn't going to have 3 women.

 

You had me very worried there for a moment but I believe this was his follow up response

"Let’s just say I’m much more interested in polyamory than polygamy. And maybe give me a little more credit than assuming I’m gonna gut that entire story and ruin everything off a one word answer? ;)"

Looking at the thread where this is discussed many think he is going to make the relationship between Elayne and Aviendha sexual as well.  To early to tell anyway in my view. 

6 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

Min is the sole stabilizing, humanizing figure in Rand's life. Of the Three, she's the one that tells him he doesn't need to be stone.

Yep, never understood those saying she could be cut. You cant have all the female characters being super girls and she is so vital in Rand's story. If you think about it as well all three of the girls Rand is attracted to represent a different feminine ideal. So Min brings balance there as well.

I would sooner cut a score of lesser characters or entire storylines that aren't central to the plot. 

10 hours ago, Carebear Sedai said:

 

Sure but walking and riding are entirely different no? I would consider it similar to the difference between walking and driving nowadays, because unfortunately I wouldn't say law and order has solved the dangers (or at least the perceived fear) women face walking alone in deserted areas.  

 

Fair enough with riding she could more easily get away. But it is still a vast order of magnitude more risky than a woman driving alone in the countryside now. It is easy to romanticise the past and forget how squalid and brutal it could be.