[Basic] Operation Domination - Game Over - Mafia Wins

[Rita Skeeter]

I won´t make any long posts but here are some of my thoughts about SH, Asmo, Mesaana and Sammy.

 

SH - I have already explained why I think he is scummy. Moridin did everything he could to defend him on Day 1 and SH defended Moridin. That´s it.

 

 

Asmo - my main concerns about Asmo is that he can´t let go of Graendal, a player that I believe is town. He attacks those that believes that Graendal is town. Also he defends SH a lot. I went back to check some quotes but I realised that some of them can in fact be seen both as townie and scummy so I will wait with Asmo.

 

Mesaana - I made a mistake day 1. I thought that the votes for Moridin came pretty quick and I believed that it was to take pressure of Graendal. So I voted Graendal and Mesaana immideately followed me. Now when we know that Moridin was scum that is an interesting move. (I know you can say the same about me.) She let her vote stay on Graendal all day, even after both doc claims. Instead of voting Moridin she asked the cop to view one of them. I don´t like when people try to direct the cop. After this she has parked her vote on Graendal - again, someone that I believe is town.

[Rita Skeeter]

My main suspiciouns about Sammy is that he is trying to stay in the middle. I´m tired right now and don´t know how to explain that feeling. Fencesitting perhaps?

 

Here he says that the SH/Moridin dynamic is interesting. Sort of bind them together, right?

 

I find the SH/Moridin dynamic interesting. I'll bite.

 

unvote. Vote SH

 

 

Here someone else takes over Sammy and new players don´t always agree with the old one but it´s noteworthy that he now attacks Lanfear for tying together Moridin and SH. Sort of the opposite from what he did in the previous quote.

 

*lounges in his throne*

I'm baaack! And more interesting than ever. This whole reincarnation process is really, really trippy, 'ya know?

 

I am also disconcerted by the speed of this train, if Moridin turns out to be town, I will be 100% sure that there are some scum on this train, if he's not, some scum may be on it to distance themselves, but they will most likely be later votes that happened around now.

 

I'm really not liking this comment. It stinks. You can't be 100% of anything unless you know more than you claim. Plus you're trying to put the heat on people who vote later for him, which translates to you trying to scare off other players from voting him OR you're trying to protect one of the first voters by putting the suspicion on the later voters.

 

 

I think you know what Moridin is going to flip if we lynch him and I think all your comments are preparing the ground for tomorrow for you to pull out a gigantic 'I told you so' to gain back some credibility. Either way we have a lot to gain from your coroner report.

 

 

Vote SH

 

I won't even comment on SH's comment, other than to say that SH's powers of deduction are utterly amazing. *sarcasm voice*

 

I'm getting the same vibe that Cyndane is here - that Rand knows more than he's telling.

 

Lynch SH, then Moridin. Moridin is either defending a buddy or defending an unknown entity way too hard.

 

On second thought, that doesn't make sense. We can deal with SH later.

 

Unvote: Vote Moridin.

 

Your powers of deduction are also most astute. *cue sarcasm voice*

First, you're in favor of lynching SH to see whether it can tell about Moridin, then you flip to say lynch Moridin, then SH. Why are you tying them together like they're two peas in a pod? It's almost as if you've got it set in your head that they've gotta be teammates without stopping to consider the alternatives. And your willingness to give SH an "I won't come after you 'til tomorrow card" is pinging majorly right about now.

 

Dunno if Red's moved my vote or not cuz of the replacement, but I like it right where it was. Vote: SH (or Rand or whatevs you wanna call him)

 

During the night he joins Asmo and Demandred in trying to make Graendal look bad. He can´t understand why Graendal found Moridins claim as Poet/admin noteworthy.

 

New day: Here he wants to look at how the new SH is going to defend himself. He says it looks bad for SH that Moridin defended him but have a feeling he is town. It´s like he is waiting for others to see if they will vote SH or not and then follow.

 

Right now, I'd like to see how the new SH approaches his defense. It does look pretty bad for him that Moridin would come out and defend him like that, but I'm getting the vibe that it might have been a scum ploy that backfired. I don't get why a scum team would risk outing two of themselves on day 1 on that type of a play. Add to that the three quick votes that came right at the start of the day, and I'm not convinced that he's scum.

 

Here he votes Graendal after Dashiva´s claim.

 

I am a IP-tracer, in other words, a Finder. Make of that what you will.

 

And you say Graendal is scum? Well, that's simple enough. Vote: Graendal.

 

 

Here he opens up for the opportunity that Darshiva might be lying. Why is that? This is the post that makes me most suspicious about Sammy. I believe he knows that Graendel is town, knows that Darshiva is lying - because he is scum.

 

Halima he is lieing, he is taking out the biggest attacker of Asmo, Asmo is important to the mafia it seems.

 

You're saying that Dashiva's lying? He claimed Cop, so unless he's paranoid or something, I'm inclined to believe him (her? It's been a while, and I don't remember Dashiva from the books). And even if he is lying - you get lynched, you flip differently, we've found ourselves another mafioso.

 

Again some fencesitting: Graendal was a little scummy but Asmo´s attack on Graendal is a little scummy...

 

Re: Graendal

 

I voted for her with the assumption that Dashiva had indeed viewed her as scum due to the cop claim when it came out. Graendal didn't do herself any favors in my book with the way that she reacted either - she went from accepting a lynch on herself if that's what it would take to find scum to fighting tooth and nail when Dashiva had implied that he viewed her.

 

Dashiva's play - not so keen on that he needlessly revealed without finding scum, as it means that Halima's gotta WIFOM it the rest of the way. But Graendal's sudden change in heart with Dashiva stuck out to me a lot. If she was town, if Dashiva had indeed fake claimed, I'd have thought that she'd have taken it for the town if it would have meant catching a liar like she was professing she would on day 1.

 

Asmo, I'm getting the feeling that he's trying to stir the pot and trying to get others to argue with him. When I read his arguments, I felt like I was running in circles. The fact that he was tunneling on Graendal is also suspicious to me - it seems to me like he has it out for her specifically and is not going to be satisfied until she goes down. I think it goes above and beyond the nature of what I'd expect from their two characters from the books.

 

I need time to think and go back and read more deeply because I'm not sold on the Graendal vote at this moment in time. I think that her behavior was odd after Dashiva's hinting, but given that she wasn't viewed, I'm going to give her the benefit of the doubt for now. Unvote.

 

I have to go resume work shortly, so expect more from me this evening.

 

And today. Graendal is a good choise but he is willing to see what she says. Opens a new door for unvoting if necessary.

 

I am not good at picking up meanings from smileys, and judging from the hints that Graendal was dropping in the last phase, I believe that she's only allowed to communicate through smileys. Nor do I understand the significance behind the bolded names in the vote count.

 

Graendal sounds like a good choice to me. If we aren't going to be able to get solid communication from her, she is a liability.

 

However, I am open to hearing what she has to say through smileys.

 

Graendal, do you believe that the players whose names you've bolded in the vote counts you quoted previously are scum?

 

 

I hope you get what I mean with all those quotes. So for short - I could vote SH, Sammy or Mesaana. In that order.

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

Oops, somehow I accidentally unfollowed this topic when I posted last night. Weird.

 

I'm continuing on my reread at the moment. Thoughts as they come up. Et cetera.

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

Some things from pages 13-14 (still Day 1):

 

Behind on my reading; I'll catch up soon. Had some technical difficulties involving a dead battery. But even what I've caught up to makes me want to vote Shaidar Haran. If he's actually Rand, then both his slip and the subsequent flailing are highly scummy. Every game I've played with him, when he's made a slip like that he's been scum. I know we're not supposed to be using meta, but it's way too obvious. And Moridin is being scummy too. I've only got three more pages to be caught up; be there in a few minutes.

 

Well at least this game you will realize that I make mistakes as both scum and town, I am going to go check how close I am to getting lynched.

I'm getting deja vu of the Super Smash Bros game. Where you said practically the same stuff. And you were scum.

 

2 things.

1) Opportunistic metagaming here by Balthamel.

2) Metagaming is dumb most of the time. Can it be useful? Yes. But basing an entire case on meta is dumb. People can change their meta to screw with you. You may not have as good a read on their meta as you think. Someone may not even have a solid playstyle yet if they're still getting started playing mafia. I know it took me a while to get a rhythm down and I still wouldn't say I have a definite playstyle and I'm not a n00b by any stretch of the imagination.

Point being, I didn't like this metagaming on D1 and I don't like metagaming Graendal or anyone else now. It's the lazy way out of true scumhunting and honestly I think it helps scum way more than it ever helps town.

 

 

VOTE DEMANDRAD.

 

Just a very scummy feel about his posts.

 

I don't believe Rand has made a scum slip. He made an identity slip. Two completely different things. I say this knowing at least 3 of you will accuse me of defending Rand. Isn't he like 15 years old? He's going to be screwy by nature.

 

Noticed this. I'm still looking for a reaction to this from other players. So far it looks like most people ignored it, but I haven't gotten a sense of whether or not it's deliberate burying or if it was just poor timing with the Moridin thing. Just wanted to point this out.

 

Also the last bit of Osan'gar's post. I pretty much agree. You might say "duh" but I think it's worth pointing out objectively. I believe Rand was the first one of the entire game to screw up like that, and he got a lot of crap for it. I still remember when I was a teen, and I have teenaged siblings. I'm not really all that surprised by how he reacted. The Moridin stuff I'm not going to say was due to being flustered because Rand had plenty of time to collect himself by then, but the initial "flailing" was pretty understandable if you really think about it.

 

 

I know he claimed doc, but I'm leaving my vote on Moridin. I'm convinced that he's playing more scum-like than anyone else in the game so far, and I think that the doc claim is a smoke screen. Not bright to try and lynch a claimed doc, I know, but I really don't think he's the doc.

 

Shady, Shady, Shady... I gave you a serious pass on your flailing, opting instead to go for Moridin and his more scummy defense. Now you're telling the doc to reveal to counterclaim Moridin's claim? Let's pretend, for a moment, that Moridin is scum claiming doctor. Doctor reveals, Moridin dies, and then there is one less scum in the game. However, there are still three or four more scum in the game, and they are now aware of who the doctor is.

 

On the other hand, doc doesn't reveal today. We lynch somebody who is not claiming healer- likely you- andsee what kind of information we get from the lynch. We then let a night action go through. Somebody dies, but somebody was going to die anyway. The next day, we then look at the evidence and decide that, hey, Moridin is [town/scum use whichever is appropriate]. That way, we don't lose our doc.

 

Forgot to add that, while I am still voting for Moridin, I'm pretty sure that the game is going to play out this way. Nobody (except possibly me) will vote to lynch a possible doc, which is probably how it should be.

 

I know we know Ishy and Moridin were both scum at this point, haha. I'm mostly just trying to keep tabs on Ishy's posts now to see if I can dig anything out.

 

1st paragraph--Distancing. While also trying to keep Moridin alive.

2nd paragraph--So condescending...No, really. Overly so, especially when in hindsight you know he's scum. Acting like calling for a counterclaim was just soooo scummy. Honestly? I think it was Halima who said she subscribes to the school of thought that the doc/cop should always counterclaim a fake reveal. Acknowledging that there are differing beliefs about this. Some people firmly support the logic Ishamael was spouting here, and some think it's stupid. The way my former self called for a counterclaim was odd, yes, but calling for a counterclaim isn't inherently scummy, imo. Just because there ARE people who think that's the right thing to do.

3rd/4th paragraphs--for all the "I'm keeping my vote on Moridin" jazz, he sure seems to want Moridin alive and SH (me) dead (as the only other real lynch candidate). Like "stupid me, I think Moridin's so scummy and not the doc but it's not smart to risk lynching the doc today so everyone else who is so much smarter than me will lynch you and then we give Moridin a chance to show us what he's got (ehehehe) and figure out his alignment tomorrow. Yeah. Sounds good to me."

 

 

Okay. More reading now.

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

MMkay up to the beginning of page 19 (I'm gonna try not to overload thoughts on here because there are lots of pages, but we'll see).

 

So Halima's got the CC? Wasn't expecting that. And seals my vote. Unvote, vote: Moridin

 

I don't think I said? No, I didn't yet, but I think Cyndane and now Mordeth have good points about Sammael. In light of that, I wanted to point this out as well. He's not the only one with a questionable reaction to Halima's CC. Granted, what are you supposed to say, really? But something that stuck out to me at any rate. Was he not expecting it because he thought Moridin was gonna make it through D1 and SH was gonna get lynched instead?

 

Other odd reactions (imo):

 

Tsk tsk, Moridin darling.

 

Not that I'm at all surprised. You've not kept your identity as hidden as you think.

 

Semirhage's obsession with identities is weird to me. And what does Moridin's non-alt identity have to do with him being scum? I think Moridin's behavior as Moridin was scummy. I don't know who he was, and I don't need to.

 

Naturally, everything happens while I'm sleeping. *sigh*

Unvote, Vote Mordin.

For obvious reasons, lol.

 

Just cuz I don't think I recall seeing much of Aginor except popping in to bandwagon at opportune moments.

 

Moving on from that. I've cut this post down for length's sake. Leaving the parts that caught my eye and my thoughts in blue.

 

Sleep.. You always get in the way.

 

Alright well now we have a real doc one way or the other so one of them scum. Heres hoping its Moridin.

 

Ping. I think it's obvious which one is more scummy.

 

I didn't quote Mesaana's post because I wanted to just +1 this. Mesaana later maintained that lynching Moridin was super-risky (talking pure theory here, I agree, but you have to take stuff game by game. People and circumstances affect a lot of what works and what doesn't). I'll stick that quote in later.

 

Those last 3 votes on Rand Haran there were actually rather fast.

 

Unvote for now.

Tsk tsk, Moridin darling.

 

Not that I'm at all surprised. You've not kept your identity as hidden as you think.

 

I also don't like this pairing of posts. The first one was before the cc, and could be an attempt at stalling SH's train. The second part- that "Not that I'm all surprised" line bothers me somewhat, because I don't remember Semi doubting Moridin's claim at all. Perhaps she's not surprised because she KNEW he wasn't the doc, but was hoping there would be no cc.

 

And +1 this. Though I know Moggy's saying she thinks I'm scum and I don't agree with THAT haha.

 

 

Mesaana's quote just below here; her vote was on Graendal at the time:

 

Alright. Welp still good with my vote.

 

Way I see it is that we know one of them is the scum so now that we have one pegged between the two of them we can have our cop view one, telling us which is the real doctor at a later point in the game. While they are alive we can continue to get reactions and information from everyone else. This should also help the Doc figure out who to view. If he finds the real doc then he can view the people who were for believing that person over the other person and vice versa.

 

All in all should help catch scum and minimize the risk of losing our Doc on D1.

 

Why does she want Moridin to stay alive so much?

 

 

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

Putting this in a separate post because it's not so much scumhunting.

 

You implying that the D1 lynch of a derpscum was due to imbalance?

 

Lol @ "derpscum"

 

Yes! We got one!

 

lol

 

I think we can say we got two, wouldn't you agree Demy?

 

Still get a general town read from Graendal at that point in the game but I just think this whole interaction was lol-worthy.

 

You did! Who's the other one?

 

*facepalm*

 

Is it Demandred with his no counterclaims business? He said why and that is a good reason, but he could have been using it as a cover? Could it be yourself trying to set up a lynch right after we got a successful one to make it seem more likely for it to be true? Could it be Balthamel because he is not telling us his gender? :)

 

The first two cases were actually real questions btw. :)

 

Every time I start thinking you might be town, you post something like this.

 

Discrediting alert, discrediting alert. (not that he had to work too hard haha)

 

 

And in a completely different vein:

 

Let's put it this way. To claim WIFOM is a mafia game is redundant at the least. The game is completely made up in WIFOM. So if you are going to claim someone is introducing WIFOM to a game (which IMO is hilarious) then it better be some serious WIFOM. Not your ordinary everyday mafia wifom that pervades every single game we play.

 

It's an action word like FLAIL, or 'ask your friends in the QUICK TOPIC. It's prone to hyperbole and overly miss used here. These are great words to use by horrible scum hunters and scum themselves to look like they are scum hunting. The words are indefensible and scum know this. That's why scum use them all the time. It's a crutch when a real argument can't be made and you know you need to post something.

 

That's why you look scummy.

 

I really like this post. A lot. I know there are a few words/phrases like that. People throw them around and bam, instant effect on how other players look at someone. And when you try and fight that word/phrase, people think you're overreacting or getting defensive or the person who used it acts all innocent. But words do have power and I like how this post points that out.

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

Going through Page 20....thoughts without quotes....

 

I started getting a town read on Cyndane right around here, and a mafia read on Asmodean. My read of Cyndane still pretty much stands at this point (I don't need to finish the reread to know that) but I'm still shaky on Asmo.

 

Lots of Graendal/Asmo back and forth with some other players' input as well.

Page 22, Asmo starts his insistence that he thinks anyone going after me is just going for an easy speed lynch. I suspect that's most of why I'm not sure if I think he's mafia or not. But just because someone is right about my alignment, it doesn't make them town. He could be mafia trying to put himself on the right side of the issue so if/when it ever gets resolved, he looks better.

 

But in general he's dogging Graendal really hard, and I don't think he ever stopped. And as much as I hate Graendal's play since she decided to "be herself," I still am pretty sure she's town and a lot of Asmo's issues with her seemed forced. Like, I really haven't agreed with much of anything Asmo has put forth as being scummy as far as Graendal is concerned.

 

And insert a quote here from p23:

 

Asmo - just shut up. You're coming off as a complete tool, and nothing in any one of your posts has done anything to convince me of a single point. I'm pretty sure you're going to have a hard time convincing everyone Graendal is scum when her actions have shown her to be pretty town imo. If you're town, all your blathering is just clogging up the thread, and there's no real meaningful scumhunting in any of your posts. If you're scum, just wait your friggin turn we'll get to you soon enough. For now, wait over here.

 

*puts asmo in the corner and puts a pacifier in his mouth*

 

I've got a little dotted line leading from you to Demandred on my chart. Guess we'll see how it all turns out, huh?

 

I just want to keep tabs on this. I think it's interesting. Not sure of Moghedien at this point but Asmo still strikes me as more scummy and I'm wondering if he knew Demandred was scum. Either that or he may be onto something with connecting Moggy and DemandScum.

 

I'm curious. Asmo said he had a reason for doing what he was doing (going after Graendal) and basically told Halima to stay out of it, and I don't think Asmo ever gave a good reason for that.

 

Page 25, second post, ping from Moghedien. Trying to shove the idea of using character/role info as part of scumhunting under a rug. I agree with the sentiment of not relying on that. I know a lot of mods forbid character claims or else supply players with fake reveals to avoid a scenario where players who know the source material well end up breaking the game. However, Moghedien closed that thought by saying the game would probably be imbalanced if Graendal's theory was right and therefore we should just forget about it because the game is probably actually balanced. Translation: "nice theory Graendal, but shut up because you're wrong. Don't look at anyone's character claim because you just can't know how it's set up so maybe that unlikely-sounding claim is actually not a lie."

 

AAAAaand I'm back up to where I joined in. Skimming now because I have a fairly fresh memory of what all went down. Just looking to see if anything sticks out in light of Demandred being scum.

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

Okay, phew. Done with the long posts for now, sorry about that.

 

Final thoughts for now.

 

I think Asmodean is probably town.

 

I don't know if anyone noticed, but Demandred's role was framer, so I'm doubting there's a godfather on the mafia team, although I had the suspicion at first that Demandred was trying to hide a GF when he was saying that they're not all that common. I think the rest of the mafia dead so far have been vanilla? So I'm guessing any mafia left are PROBABLY not roled because this is a basic game, after all.

 

The reason I mention this even though the cop is dead: the idea of me being GF, at least, and that being the reason for Moridin defending me, is kinda bogus now.

 

Moving on. I'm leaning town on Moggy and Mordeth right now, but I'd be absolutely willing to vote Mesaana or Sammael today. Aginor I'm kinda suspicious of, and I dunno where Bel'al is but for the time being I'm not looking at him because there's nothing to look at. Coming back to him later works just fine for me.

 

For now I'm gonna go with Sammael.

[ShaidarHaran-Mafia]

Also sorry about the length of the posts. They weren't as organized or useful as I thought they'd be.

[Asmodean-Mafia]

Love the posts SH, and here's why: whenever you, or an player, posts a detailed case, you are taking a position that we get to analyze. This is a strong pro-town practice as the more you've posted, the more chance we have to call you on a break in logic. It also keeps you from changing your logic later.

 

A very large part of my casing Graendal is to provide the town with that same opportunity.

 

It would be INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL FOR THE TOWN if ALL PLAYERS would post detailed thoughts on the game. In my mind, anyone who refuses is suspect.

 

As far as my play goes, I'm going after Moggy, just as I said I would. My case on Graendal stands, but as many players have expressed that they feel Graen is town and they can't all be mafia, I'll defer to the greater wisdom of the group and not beat a dead horse.

 

So, back to Moggy. Moggy first pinged me on Pg. 4, post #79...

[Asmodean-Mafia]

Pretty sure I know who Shaidar Haran is

Go ahead and say then. I won't tell you if you are right or wrong, but I am interested who you think I am. Also with Ishy on this one, joke vote that I don't get or voting becaus you know who I am?

 

The latter.

 

And you're scum.

Go ahead and say then. I won't tell you if you are right or wrong, but I am interested who you think I am. Also with Ishy on this one, joke vote that I don't get or voting becaus you know who I am?

 

The latter.

 

And you're scum.

 

Beating the grass to kick start this game?

Either that or double-blind meta-gaming. I'm curious to see where this goes.

 

As we can see, Moggy was the first one to meta SH's real identity and to vote him. This is before SH actually slipped, which proves that attention was being paid to him. Attention that easily could have been discussed in a QT with Moridin as a quick plan was put together.

 

In her next post, Moggy confirms that she is not joke posting, but actually full-on metagaming to place an actual vote on SH.

 

We see two immediate reactions to this very noticeable play:

 

1. Osanagar - who was Town - remarks on the suddenness of the vote by asking if Moggy is "beating the grass" - I'm taking for granted that everyone knows why this phrase is used, who invented it, and what it means.

 

2. Ishy - Mafia - also posted, and immediately distanced himself.

 

In summary, SH was a target before all of the "evidence" against him ever happened. This is premeditation, cut and dried - he was set up. We know that Moridin jumped on that train, and wound up swinging mafia. Osangar felt it was out of the ordinary enough to remark on, and he was town. Ishy distanced himself, and he was mafia. But Moggy was the root of all of it.

 

More on the way...

[Asmodean-Mafia]

Had there been a lot of instant bandwagoning I would have changed my vote, but since there wasn't I am happy with my vote where it is.

 

This.

 

And you're going to sit there and accuse Rand Haran of flailing?

 

Pot. Meet. Kettle.

 

Someone please kill this turkey.

 

Seriously, you didn't post this much the first three days of play. The last 12 hours has been nothing but you flailing. Over two whole votes. Why so scared Grandael? Catching flack from your teammates in the QT?

 

Pfft. Puhlease.

 

Posting more =/= flailing

 

Your over the top defending of SH only makes me feel that much more comfortable with my vote. Too many people have rushed forward to defend the al'Thor boy to dismiss as coincidence.

If you had wanted to point out an example of Graendal being a hypocrite, you could have just shown this:

 

Well this has gotten interesting.

 

I do think those who hopped on that train could be looked at closer. They were the first ones to bring a train past the regular 1 or 2 joke votes. Maybe trying to get it to snowball?

 

Sounds like the same thing Peacesells was trying to do in the Mandalorian game on Myndjack. Peacesells? Is that you?

 

pretty sure I know who the person in question is, but this is an alt game for a reason, there is no need to out people especially on day 1, Rand was a seperate case where he outed himself, also I forgot to quote it but same to whoever outed Wombat really poor day 1 plays.

 

And say whatever you like about periods and question marks, but this is role fishing, plain and simple. Scummy.

 

Kill Graendal, she is scum.

 

Ok Nolder.

 

And the capper...

[Asmodean-Mafia]

The fact is, there's been way too much reaction to the train on SH to ignore. A flip on him could tell us some more about all those that have rushed to his defense.

 

Now let's go ahead and string up this overgrown fade and get it over with.

 

Points of interest:

 

1. Totally throws Graen under the bus, though later she's gonna be Graen's best friend. Makes you wonder...

 

and

 

2. Her last line could have easily read "Let's go ahead and lynch this townies so that Moridin and I look all townie and stuff!"

[Asmodean-Mafia]

The game, as we all know, went on to lynch Moridin as scum. However, during that time, I did mix it up with Demandred, and attracted Moggy's attention in doing so:

 

She first tries to draw attention to me with some weak-ass coding nonsense.

 

I then move on to attack Graen, and Moggy jumps out against me again:

 

I don't believe Rand has made a scum slip. He made an identity slip. Two completely different things. I say this knowing at least 3 of you will accuse me of defending Rand. Isn't he like 15 years old? He's going to be screwy by nature.

I won't "accuse you of defending Rand," but I will say this: I know several players in the 14-16 range, including myself, and the phrase "screwy by nature" does not nearly describe us in general. EP? Absolutely. Rand? Sometimes. But not all of us.

 

 

Yeah, EP is in Okinawa serving in the Air Force. Absolute youngest they accept even with a waiver is 17. Pretty funny tho.

 

If I'm not mistaken, our deadline is in 8.5 hours and SH is the vote leader. For the sake of avoiding Red's wrath and because enough folks have a scum read for a day 1 lynch:

 

Unvote Moridin - Vote SH

 

Another coding fail on a vote? Asmo you were already starting to ping me, but now with two seperate voting code fails that could be a mistake or could be intentional, you're def starting to draw my eye more and more.

 

Okays. Sorry for being late. I think it's the best play to reveal now, so that night actions can be arranged properly even if we don't get a lynch through. I am Jenn, the Healer. Moridin is a lying liar who lies. ​

 

Close enough. Didn't want it to come to this but L2 is too close for comfort.

 

I'm the Doc. Carry on.

 

 

Demandred is, too:

 

unvote

 

No counterclaims, please

 

 

Based on their reactions to the claim, Graendal and Ishy aren't mafia.

 

Unvote, Vote: Moridin

 

First of all, Demandred was discouraging a CC because that would then expose our doc. I agreed with him, and frankly wish you hadn't cc'ed.

 

I also don't like how you clear Graendal and Ishy on the basis that they doubted the claim. I doubted the claim as well, yet you didn't mention me. More importantly, doubting the claim is another way of subtly encouraging the real doc to cc. I have a town read on Graendal, but in Ishy's case this could have easily been what he was trying to do. Not saying I have a scum read on him, just that you shouldn't have "cleared" them on that basis.

 

Sleep.. You always get in the way.

 

Alright well now we have a real doc one way or the other so one of them scum. Heres hoping its Moridin.

 

Ping. I think it's obvious which one is more scummy.

 

Redacting my FOS on Moridin. It's too risky to lynch an un-CCed Doc. Besides, in a previous game (BG's Super Smash Bros.) the Cop was scummy all game and still turned out to be who he said he was. We spent days waiting for a CC, but it never came. I'm willing to believe Moridin.

Okays. Sorry for being late. I think it's the best play to reveal now, so that night actions can be arranged properly even if we don't get a lynch through. I am Jenn, the Healer. Moridin is a lying liar who lies. ​

 

Close enough. Didn't want it to come to this but L2 is too close for comfort.

 

I'm the Doc. Carry on.

 

 

Demandred is, too:

 

unvote

 

No counterclaims, please

 

 

Based on their reactions to the claim, Graendal and Ishy aren't mafia.

 

Unvote, Vote: Moridin

Wow, that clears a lot up. It leaves me with no reasons not to unvote and vote Moridin. Stinks that they drew the doc out so early, but at least we get a day one scum lynch.

And Demandred is definitely on the radar for tomorrow. I can leave Mr. Haran for day three.

 

This group of quotes makes me highly suspicious of Balthamel. Especially the last one, trying to direct our lynch tomorrow off of SH who is even more suspect now, onto someone I have a faint town read on.

 

 

Those last 3 votes on Rand Haran there were actually rather fast.

 

Unvote for now.

Tsk tsk, Moridin darling.

 

Not that I'm at all surprised. You've not kept your identity as hidden as you think.

 

I also don't like this pairing of posts. The first one was before the cc, and could be an attempt at stalling SH's train. The second part- that "Not that I'm all surprised" line bothers me somewhat, because I don't remember Semi doubting Moridin's claim at all. Perhaps she's not surprised because she KNEW he wasn't the doc, but was hoping there would be no cc.

I must say, I don't think I have ever gotten quite as much enjoyment from a mafia game as I have reading up on the last few pages. Flail away, scum! Flail to your heart's content!

 

Hooray at catching scum as well. And maaaaaaaan that scene was long.

 

One question Red. Q Bert themselves? ???

 

I'm not even going to quote all the stuff I found scummy from the last few pages, I think it's obvious what direction we're gonna be going in once day breaks.

 

:)

Asmo - just shut up. You're coming off as a complete tool, and nothing in any one of your posts has done anything to convince me of a single point. I'm pretty sure you're going to have a hard time convincing everyone Graendal is scum when her actions have shown her to be pretty town imo. If you're town, all your blathering is just clogging up the thread, and there's no real meaningful scumhunting in any of your posts. If you're scum, just wait your friggin turn we'll get to you soon enough. For now, wait over here.

 

*puts asmo in the corner and puts a pacifier in his mouth*

[Asmodean-Mafia]

I don't really feel like we need more quotes to remember Moggy's staunch defense of Graen shortly after this, but i can certainly post them if necessary.

 

Moggy:

 

1. Started the vote on SH before any evidence.

2. Supported Demandred several times, and echoed many of the same points.

3. After I came out against Demandred, she attacked me.

4. After i came out against Graendal, she attacked me again.

and last

5. Everything she has done seems to be done with a purpose - there are no "head-scratching" posts from her. This implies that she is playing the game to push an agenda, and not to solve a mystery. That's scum play.

 

Unvote Graendal - Vote Moggy

[Graendal-Mafia]

Love the posts SH, and here's why: whenever you, or an player, posts a detailed case, you are taking a position that we get to analyze. This is a strong pro-town practice as the more you've posted, the more chance we have to call you on a break in logic. It also keeps you from changing your logic later.

 

A very large part of my casing Graendal is to provide the town with that same opportunity.

 

It would be INCREDIBLY BENEFICIAL FOR THE TOWN if ALL PLAYERS would post detailed thoughts on the game. In my mind, anyone who refuses is suspect.

 

As far as my play goes, I'm going after Moggy, just as I said I would. My case on Graendal stands, but as many players have expressed that they feel Graen is town and they can't all be mafia, I'll defer to the greater wisdom of the group and not beat a dead horse.

 

So, back to Moggy. Moggy first pinged me on Pg. 4, post #79...

 

(^.^)b

 

Pretty sure I know who Shaidar Haran is

Go ahead and say then. I won't tell you if you are right or wrong, but I am interested who you think I am. Also with Ishy on this one, joke vote that I don't get or voting becaus you know who I am?

 

The latter.

 

And you're scum.

Go ahead and say then. I won't tell you if you are right or wrong, but I am interested who you think I am. Also with Ishy on this one, joke vote that I don't get or voting becaus you know who I am?

 

The latter.

 

And you're scum.

 

Beating the grass to kick start this game?

Either that or double-blind meta-gaming. I'm curious to see where this goes.

 

As we can see, Moggy was the first one to meta SH's real identity and to vote him. This is before SH actually slipped, which proves that attention was being paid to him. Attention that easily could have been discussed in a QT with Moridin as a quick plan was put together.

 

In her next post, Moggy confirms that she is not joke posting, but actually full-on metagaming to place an actual vote on SH.

 

We see two immediate reactions to this very noticeable play:

 

1. Osanagar - who was Town - remarks on the suddenness of the vote by asking if Moggy is "beating the grass" - I'm taking for granted that everyone knows why this phrase is used, who invented it, and what it means.

 

2. Ishy - Mafia - also posted, and immediately distanced himself.

 

In summary, SH was a target before all of the "evidence" against him ever happened. This is premeditation, cut and dried - he was set up. We know that Moridin jumped on that train, and wound up swinging mafia. Osangar felt it was out of the ordinary enough to remark on, and he was town. Ishy distanced himself, and he was mafia. But Moggy was the root of all of it.

 

More on the way...

 

O.o

 

The fact is, there's been way too much reaction to the train on SH to ignore. A flip on him could tell us some more about all those that have rushed to his defense.

 

Now let's go ahead and string up this overgrown fade and get it over with.

 

Points of interest:

 

1. Totally throws Graen under the bus, though later she's gonna be Graen's best friend. Makes you wonder...

 

and

 

2. Her last line could have easily read "Let's go ahead and lynch this townies so that Moridin and I look all townie and stuff!"

 

|0

T

^

 

I don't really feel like we need more quotes to remember Moggy's staunch defense of Graen shortly after this, but i can certainly post them if necessary.

 

Moggy:

 

1. Started the vote on SH before any evidence.

2. Supported Demandred several times, and echoed many of the same points.

3. After I came out against Demandred, she attacked me.

4. After i came out against Graendal, she attacked me again.

and last

5. Everything she has done seems to be done with a purpose - there are no "head-scratching" posts from her. This implies that she is playing the game to push an agenda, and not to solve a mystery. That's scum play.

 

Unvote Graendal - Vote Moggy

 

 

(^.^)b

[Lanfear-Mafia]

I still think the best place to be is Belal.

 

And I don't like the people who agreed about it then went on to other things.

[Guest Semirhage-Mafia]

I still think the best place to be is Belal.

 

And I don't like the people who agreed about it then went on to other things.

 

I'd be fine voting for Belal personally. Since he's been completely inactive, I do wonder if that's going to be of the most use. Either he's a serious lurker, or isn't playing and hasn't been replaced.

 

I'm leaning more toward trying to unravel some of the interactions with Moridin D1, though. I was thinking about voting Shaidar Haran, but Asmo's case against Moggy made me look twice.

 

I'd like to hear what Moghedien has to say in response.

[Guest Moghedien-Mafia]

I found Asmo's case on me to be incredibly weak, incidentally, and I really don't feel there was that much specifically to respond to.

 

I did have a town read on Demandred before he flipped as scum, meh I was wrong.

 

I have a scum read on Asmo cause he was bulldogging and tunneling on players most of the game, and his multiple coding errors made me feel something was up. Plus, he's using my defense of Graendal (who I still believe to be town btw) as evidence AGAINST me, when we haven't had an alignment flip on her yet. Lordy that's dumb.

 

Also, I never said I was full on meta gaming with my initial vote on SH. Incidentally, the person I thought SH was ended up being someone else (I thought SH was EP at first, I've never seen Rand that flirty at the start of a game but I have seen EP act that way and be just as spammy as SH was being). Either way, my vote was to kick start some action. SH, who at the time I thought was EP, was flailing without any true pressure on him, so I felt adding some pressure could help open things up. Turns out, it did. I'm not saying I'm solely responsible for everything else that happened, but there would have been no reason for Moridin to come forward and defend SH if people hadn't of been voting him.

 

Incidentally, while we're on the topic of SH, I also like his last few posts, altho the wifomy part about GF's was kinda weird, didn't really seem necessary for him to bring that up.

 

Let's see what else...

 

Asmo spends a lot of time quoting all kinds of posts of mine, without really being clear about what in each post is scummy. Seems like he's trying to setup a case that looks a lot stronger than it is by multiquoting a bunch of stuff. And the things he DID call me out for were either weak reasoning, or completely false, as I've already shown in a couple of examples.

 

As for me pointing out Graen's hypocrisy, I lol'd when I saw him try and use that as evidence. Really, I lol'd at a lot of his "case". But that in particular was pretty dumb. Just because I have a town read on someone doesn't mean I'm not gonna call them out for something I see as bogus.

 

That's about all I see to directly respond to at the moment, but I want to add that I really find Asmo's behavior this game to be extremely anti-town, and even purposefully obtuse at times, and I think his case speaks for itself, it's weak as weak can be. But whatever, I'm vanilla as I already said earlier, and I haven't been as active in this game as I would normally like cause I'm too lazy to sign in on my alt most of the time, so yall won't really lose much by lynching me, and if you do it will only prove how insubstantial Asmo's case was.

 

Oooh one more thing, Asmo's "Well since everyone else seems to think Graen is town, I'll trust everyone else and switch to someone else who is already voting me" is just scummy. As was his attempt to claim credit as the leader on Moridin's lynch. As was his bulldogging of players when we had much better leads as far as scum goes. The proof is in the pudding people. Lynch this cat.

[Guest Moghedien-Mafia]

Besides Asmo, the other player I would also agree with a lynch on would be Mesaana, for things already mentioned by both me and other players.

 

I'm not seeing much that anyone has brought up on Be'lal besides his inactivity, did I miss something else that someone has said about him?

[Red2111]

due to the incomminhg Hurricane in my area i'm extending the Deadline until late Thursday evening. i don't expect much to happen, but we'll be feelignt he effects from Isaac as early as this evening in my area, so i don't expect to be online until then.

 

 

Deadline

 

Thusday, August 30th @ 5pm CST

 

Vote Count

 

Graendal (1): Sammy

SH (2): Hamila, Mordeth

Belal (1): Lanny

Asmo (2): Aginor, Moggy

Mordeth (1): Mesaana

Sammy (1): SH

Moggy (1): Asmo

 

No Vote: Belal, Graendal, Cyndane, Semi, Balth, Rahvin, Aginor

[Lanfear-Mafia]

Besides Asmo, the other player I would also agree with a lynch on would be Mesaana, for things already mentioned by both me and other players.

 

I'm not seeing much that anyone has brought up on Be'lal besides his inactivity, did I miss something else that someone has said about him?

 

Belal's inactivity has been enough to go off of given our current state. I've seen quiet lucky scum who might just be inactive win games. The fact he hasn't been replaced when many others have reads to me a good reason to vote.

[Lanfear-Mafia]

That should say lurky.

[Balthamel-Mafia]

Been out, I'm in here for about five minutes before I leave again. I agree with Asmo about Moghedien, but I also REALLY don't like Bel'al flying completely under the radar for so long. Vote Bel'al.

[Aginor-Mafia]

Have a hard time understanding how Asmo hasn't been lynched yet.