The Aiel's prophecy of "Remnant of a remnant"

[mackoY-kun]

I see that a lot of people here are in denial of the Visions Aviendha saw in the pillars. I think this based on the kind of post I read when they mention them. This is probably due to the fact that we all like the Aiel. But if you consider the things that are said by the Aiel, prophecy and some I'm not so sure.

"He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live."

I'm not sure where I read this but I remember something that goes something like this;

"He will take us back to our place of old"

Then if we consider the evidence from WH22: Out of Thin Air

It was not the encounter with an Aielman that upset him. He had seen many since coming to Far Madding. For some reason, hundreds of the Aiel who fled after learning the truth of their history had ended up there, attempting to follow the Way of the Leaf when they had no more idea of what that entailed except that they were supposed to be lifelong gai'shain.

 

They hint on the inevitable end.

 

Remnant of a remnant; The Aiel as they are, are already a Remnant of the Aiel from the AoL, so only a remnant of them will be saved.

Their place of old were as servants to Aes Sedai and followers of the Way of the Leaf. Servants to servants(Aes Sedai) of the people. If I am correct and "their place of old are as servants, this means there is no future for them as warriors.

Gaishain or Da'covale is a discription that fits what they were in the Age of legends. In Seanchan, property of the High/Low Blood are respected, like the Aiel in the AoL.

 

The Aiel deserters we see in Far Madding and other places, the Aiel Shaido caught at Malden and other places, all look to be blending in with the wet-landers prretty well. Those he "broke" with the sword of peace, are the remnant that he will have "saved", because if the Aiel had remained as a whole and went to war with the Seanchan, they will be annihilated completely.

 

It's sort of a disappointing end for the only group of people I like in the series, but all evidence points to their end. Not even the Andorans or Borderlander or any other nation or people measure up to them in my book.

[FarShainMael]

From

 

http://encyclopaedia-wot.org/prophecies/aiel.html

 

it's actually

 

"When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

 

which sounds a bit more hopeful!

 

As does this:

 

"Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

[Hadilmir]

From

 

http://encyclopaedia...ecies/aiel.html

 

it's actually

 

"When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

 

which sounds a bit more hopeful!

 

As does this:

 

"Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

 

That does not sound any more hopeful. In fact, it reinforces mackoY-kun's point. Taking back their places of old is exactly what those who have cast down their spears to live with the wetlanders have done. The Aiel as a warrior people are finished.

[Xcorpyo001]

People tend to forget that those visions Aviendha had of that possible future are known by all the Aiel since the start of their new way of life in the TFL, but they were misinterpreted.

We know from the second book, when Perrin&co encounter that Aiel dude that wants to 'dance' with Verin, that is common knowledge to the Aiel that if they fight the AS, they will be destroyed.

 

Now, let's say this prophecy was made shortly after the Breaking, at the beginning of Rhuidean. So an AS or the True Ayel or one of the first WO dreamwalker has a vision of a future in which Aiel start a war with a group of people who have women that use the OP as a weapon.

Now, this is a time when the only known faction to use the power is the AS. It will be almost 2000 years before the damane are 'created', as the new order of AS, windfinders, etc.

So even if that AS/WO saw that the female channelers were collared, they didn't had a word for damane yet, so they used the only one they had, Aes Sedai.

 

So Rand kneeling to Tuon(or any other of his decision concerning the Aiel) isn't the major problem here, the Aiel are. Even the WO are ready to attack the Seachan after the Last Battle, so if Aviendha&WO wants to save the Aiel, they have to force them to follow Rand's peace, or tell Rand to ask Fortuona to release all the WO damane if she wants him to kneel to her.

The prophecy doesn't actually say that he will 'serve' her, just that he will kneel, and it can be taken as it is...he can kneel just as he did in front of Morgase and Siuan.

[mackoY-kun]

"Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

 

With this, it actually looks more grim.

 

"Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

 

What was it that was "theirs and was lost"? I know Terez or Luckers already disputed the "song" theory, but maybe this is it?

 

Or maybe it is just their "honored" place?

[FarShainMael]

From

 

http://encyclopaedia...ecies/aiel.html

 

it's actually

 

"When the Trollocs come out of the Blight again, we will leave the Three-fold Land and take back our places of old."

 

which sounds a bit more hopeful!

 

As does this:

 

"Prophecy says when the Stone of Tear falls, we will leave the Three-fold Land at last. It says we will be changed, and find again what was ours, and was lost."

 

That does not sound any more hopeful. In fact, it reinforces mackoY-kun's point. Taking back their places of old is exactly what those who have cast down their spears to live with the wetlanders have done. The Aiel as a warrior people are finished.

 

If so, would that be a bad thing?

 

Please note: I'm not saying it wouldn't be bad; I'm not saying it would. Could go either way. I invite discussion of the point.

[mackoY-kun]

It's just such a big disappointment. I like the Aiel a lot. I think a lot of people do, and for them to end in almost complete annihilation is a sad sad thing. (I'm not a voilent person but neither am I a fan of non-violence. Sometimes, some people just needs a hard rap on the head for them to stop doing bad things. Sometimes, "words just don't cut it".)

[Din]

Whoops, wrong thread.

[FarShainMael]

I just noticed something in that prophecy:

 

"He shall spill out the blood of those who call themselves Aiel as water on sand, and he shall break them as dried twigs, yet the remnant of a remnant shall he save, and they shall live." (TSR34)

 

Of course, we've seen the phrase 'so-called Aiel' before, twice.. said by Taim (LoC11) and Moridin / Ishamael (ACoS20).

 

I detect Ishy at work here..

[mackoY-kun]

Yes, that's quite clear to me actually. "Those who call themselves Aiel"; they are the 12 Aiel Clans. Because they only call them selves Aiel, but they are not actually "Dedicated". As I see it, being Aiel, means being dedicated to the Way of the Leaf and their service to the Aes Sedai.

[FarShainMael]

Oh yes, its meaning is quite clear, that wasn't what I meant. I was drawing attention to the fact that, besides this prophecy, we've only seen the Aiel described in this (somewhat disparaging) way by a Forsaken and a probable (at the very least!) DF.