Lyrical death in Veins of Gold

[dwn]

A different take on Rand's death(s) occurred to me when reading Terez's FAQ article Blood on the Rocks. I posted some preliminary thoughts in another thread, but here's a more formal write-up.

 

Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live, and twice to die.

Once the heron, to set his path.

Twice the heron, to name him true.

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.

 

'Twice to live, and twice to die' is generally thought to mean that Rand will be killed, then resurrected (probably by Nynaeve). Similarly, 'Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost' has usually been thought to refer to Rand's trip through the glass columns in Rhuidean.

 

I think Veins of Gold is a better fit for both lines. I think Rand died--in a sense--atop Dragonmount, and his new outlook and memories are the result of that death/rebirth.

 

1) VoG is Rand's great moment of epiphany or enlightenment, for which death and rebirth are common metaphors.

 

2) Rand drew enough saidin to kill himself. "He knew that much power would destroy him. He had stopped caring." (TGS, Veins of Gold, p. 757).

 

3) Perrin saw Rand atop Dragonmount in T'A'R. Why? A likely explanation is that Perrin saw him because the Dragon is a Hero of the Horn--and all the Heroes exist in T'A'R between incarnations.

 

4) This interpretation also explains Rand's memories. Before VoG Rand had fragments of LTT's life; during--and presumably after--he remembers "thousands of lifetimes, stretching to infinity" (TGS, Veins of Gold, p. 759). Upon being ripped out of T'A'R, Birgitte also remembered all her past lives (at first), recent ones more clearly than older ones.

 

-- dwn

[Leyrann]

But why "once the Dragon, for remembrance lost"?

 

EDIT: Sorry, I already understand.

 

And maybe "twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay" means that he'll enter TAR again, now to defeat the DO (and paying a price, maybe his life (again))? I already thought we interpreted it wrong, because he got the Dragons at the same time. We're lured in it by "once the heron" and "twice the heron".

[dwn]

But why "once the Dragon, for remembrance lost"?

 

EDIT: Sorry, I already understand.

 

And maybe "twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay" means that he'll enter TAR again, now to defeat the DO (and paying a price, maybe his life (again))? I already thought we interpreted it wrong, because he got the Dragons at the same time. We're lured in it by "once the heron" and "twice the heron".

 

Yes, 'remembrance lost' referring to his past-life memories.

 

I don't think that the circumstances of his first death necessarily implies the manner of his second death. If this theory is correct, however, I think Rand's second death will be more like that of King Arthur--who, by some myths, effectively died but was taken away to Avalon to heal his wounds--than that of Christ's death and resurrection.

 

I definitely agree that the way the heron brands were linked to events led us to--incorrectly--link the dragon tattoos to the events in Rhuidean.

 

-- dwn

[Leyrann]

I don't know the myth of King Artur. Could you explain it a bit?

[Terez]

I don't know the myth of King Artur. Could you explain it a bit?

Try this.

[FarShainMael]

A different take on Rand's death(s) occurred to me when reading Terez's FAQ article Blood on the Rocks. I posted some preliminary thoughts in another thread, but here's a more formal write-up.

 

Twice and twice shall he be marked,

twice to live, and twice to die.

Once the heron, to set his path.

Twice the heron, to name him true.

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.

 

'Twice to live, and twice to die' is generally thought to mean that Rand will be killed, then resurrected (probably by Nynaeve). Similarly, 'Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost' has usually been thought to refer to Rand's trip through the glass columns in Rhuidean.

 

I think Veins of Gold is a better fit for both lines. I think Rand died--in a sense--atop Dragonmount, and his new outlook and memories are the result of that death/rebirth.

 

1) VoG is Rand's great moment of epiphany or enlightenment, for which death and rebirth are common metaphors.

 

2) Rand drew enough saidin to kill himself. "He knew that much power would destroy him. He had stopped caring." (TGS, Veins of Gold, p. 757).

 

3) Perrin saw Rand atop Dragonmount in T'A'R. Why? A likely explanation is that Perrin saw him because the Dragon is a Hero of the Horn--and all the Heroes exist in T'A'R between incarnations.

 

4) This interpretation also explains Rand's memories. Before VoG Rand had fragments of LTT's life; during--and presumably after--he remembers "thousands of lifetimes, stretching to infinity" (TGS, Veins of Gold, p. 759). Upon being ripped out of T'A'R, Birgitte also remembered all her past lives (at first), recent ones more clearly than older ones.

 

-- dwn

 

I've thought along these lines for some time, see post 19 here:

 

http://www.dragonmount.com/forums/topic/56841-to-survive-the-last-battle-rand-must-die/page__p__1763550

 

'The price he must pay' may refer to the loss of his hand, with part of that tattoo.

[Leyrann]

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.

 

Just got a great idea about this. Could this be that one of them happens? If it's one Dragon tattoo at VoG, he survives (and gains his memories) and it's two Dragon tattoo's at VoG, he must pay the price, and go over to the Shadow?

 

Just an idea, but what do you think of it?

[dwn]

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.

 

Just got a great idea about this. Could this be that one of them happens? If it's one Dragon tattoo at VoG, he survives (and gains his memories) and it's two Dragon tattoo's at VoG, he must pay the price, and go over to the Shadow?

 

Just an idea, but what do you think of it?

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, because Rand obviously received both tattoos in Rhuidean, and the prophecy doesn't read as an either/or scenario.

 

I'm starting to think more about the heron brands, though. Obviously, he received the second brand during his fight with Ishamael at Falme, which was where he effectively proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn. Therefore, 'to name him true' seems to logically coincide with the second brand. Still, Rand remained unconvinced throughout TDR--indeed that book was entirely about Rand accepting the mantle of Dragon Reborn, culminating in taking Callandor from the Stone of Tear. In this light, Falme was just one of many steps along the way.

 

The first brand is even more hazy, I think. It does coincide with Rand stepping up to become a leader, and it's sort-of close to the beginning of the Hunt for the Horn, which is the plot arc that leads to Falme. Yet it's possible 'to set his path' refers to Rand receiving Tam's sword, which is both when Rand decides to leave the Two Rivers, and when we first learn about the significance of the heron mark. That sword, of course, is what ends up giving him the heron brands.

 

-- dwn

[Asbrodean]

didnt someone say that the area around the bore is a little like TAR in that reality is "bent"

[Leyrann]

Once the Dragon, for remembrance lost.

Twice the Dragon, for the price he must pay.

 

Just got a great idea about this. Could this be that one of them happens? If it's one Dragon tattoo at VoG, he survives (and gains his memories) and it's two Dragon tattoo's at VoG, he must pay the price, and go over to the Shadow?

 

Just an idea, but what do you think of it?

 

I'm not quite sure what you mean here, because Rand obviously received both tattoos in Rhuidean, and the prophecy doesn't read as an either/or scenario.

 

I'm starting to think more about the heron brands, though. Obviously, he received the second brand during his fight with Ishamael at Falme, which was where he effectively proclaimed himself the Dragon Reborn. Therefore, 'to name him true' seems to logically coincide with the second brand. Still, Rand remained unconvinced throughout TDR--indeed that book was entirely about Rand accepting the mantle of Dragon Reborn, culminating in taking Callandor from the Stone of Tear. In this light, Falme was just one of many steps along the way.

 

The first brand is even more hazy, I think. It does coincide with Rand stepping up to become a leader, and it's sort-of close to the beginning of the Hunt for the Horn, which is the plot arc that leads to Falme. Yet it's possible 'to set his path' refers to Rand receiving Tam's sword, which is both when Rand decides to leave the Two Rivers, and when we first learn about the significance of the heron mark. That sword, of course, is what ends up giving him the heron brands.

 

-- dwn

 

I was talking about that Rand lost a hand. That this was "one Dragon" (because part of that Dragon is gone). Maybe that there would be something different if he wouldn't have lost a hand (when he would've had two Dragons). But maybe it's just rambling...