An interview with Jason

[Majsju]

Some time ago, an idea popped up in my head. While most people here knows that Jason is the creator and owner of Dragonmount, there is not so much things known about him as a fan of tWoT. And since we have him to thank for having this place to hang out at, I figured I should try to change that.

So I went to him with the idea that he should write up some kind of *Hello, I am Jason' thingy. He liked the reasoning behind my suggestion, but was not really comfortable about just writing a post all about himself, so he suggested we should do it as an interview instead. I brought in assistance in the shape of Luckers, and we started working. The hope was tha we would get this done before the release of TGS, and we just made it, at least for Europe and the US.

 

So, dear members of Dragonmount, meet Jason.

 

You are one of those who have read tWOT since more or less the very beginning. How did you first encounter the books?

 

Actually, in my mind, I started fairly late. Or "In the middle".  But I guess that depends on who you talk to. 20 years is a long time to have a series published, and with new people finding it all the time, when I started in that period might feel like a really long time ago to some, or it might feel much more recent to others.

 

I was first exposed to the series when I was about 15 years old. 1993. I was a member of a Science Fiction Book Club. When I joined the club, I was able to choose 6 books from a small catalog that they would send me. I quickly chose the my first few choices, and then saw that I had three picks left.  Inside the catalog were the first three WoT novels. I knew nothing about them, and had never heard of Robert Jordan.  But I liked the cover to THE DRAGON REBORN.  So I picked that one, but realized it was book 3.  So I got the first two to go with it, and that completed my first six picks in the club.

 

Well, two years later, they were still sitting on my shelf.  Although I was a voracious reader at the time, and enjoyed a good, thick fantasy novel, I was a little hesitant to read EYE OF THE WORLD.  To this day, I don't remember  where that hesitation came from. I know I really wanted to get to book 3 so I could see that that glowing sword was all about. Perhaps I didn't want to bother with the books before it? lol

 

Finally, when I was 16 or 17 years old, I picked up EYE, and become completely hooked. I remember thinking at the time that I was glad I waited. For many people, there's a big difference in maturity between 13 and 17.  Certainly for me. Those extra few years helped me relate much better with the main characters. Instead of being a 13 year old imagining what it would be like to be a 19 year old kid like Rand, I was 17 and felt like I was him.

 

Once you had started reading, what was it that at first got you really hooked?

 

Clearly it was the writing.  Jordan's ability to make his world feel alive in a way that many authors don't do as well. As I said above, I felt like I related to the characters -- Rand in particular -- because in some strange way, we were going through the same things.  No, I'm obviously not channelling (but I still try every now and then), or having to fight the Forsaken, but we were both growing up, leaving home, watching childhood friendships drift apart, learning that the girl-next-door isn't going to be the one you're going to be with for the rest of your life ("...at least, not in the way you want.")

 

And it's not just me. EVERYONE who loves this series feels that way to some extent.  Over the years of running Dragonmount, I've spoken via the site and email to thousands of fans. And I'm always amazed at how some people identify so strongly with one character while other people identify with others.  That right there is part of Robert Jordan's magic, I think:  His ability to take us, the reader, and make us somehow feel like our regular lives are just like that of a fictional character in a fantasy world facing challenges that go well beyond what any real-life mortal will ever see.

 

You mentioned being member of a Science Fiction club. Before you started reading WOT, was there any other fantasy you read, or was it just SciFi?

 

Yes, I had been reading fantasy for quite a while before this.  As a young kid, about age 8 or 9, I read most of the Narnia books.  From there I devoured and CHRONICLES OF PRYDAIN, which I just re-read recently and still love.  I remember being 11 or 12 and being so sad that the story was over and that there was simply no material left to read about those characters. But at the same time, I knew even then that it was better to have a good ending rather than and endless recycling of story.  (Which is why I'm currently a big proponent of letting A MEMORY OF LIGHT be the final story in the WoT saga. Ever.)

 

After Prydain, I read the Dragonlance chronicles and legends, as well as some other DL spin-offs.  I read some Forgotten Realms books. I read lots of David Eddings. And then I got into Robert Jordan. At after that, it was just hard to read any fantasy novels without being being disappointed.

 

Jumping forward a couple of years, you created Dragonmount.com, and by doing so you created one of the first forums completely dedicated to tWOT, and as far as I know the only one from that time that still exists, now that Wotmania sadly has closed.  Why did you decide to create Dragonmount? And when you did it, what kind of visions did you have for the place?

 

You know, I've honestly never thought of DM  as "one of the first WoT forums." I don't know remember if there were other freely-available WoT message boards around at the time, but I do know that DM was far from being the first place to talk about WoT online.  In the Fall of 1998 I was in my third year of college. Path of Daggers was not yet published.  I went online and was looking for a place to go to discuss the books with people.  At the time I had been fairly active with some online gaming clans, so I was very social online. I found the rec.arts... newsgroup, but by then they were really established in their ways and it was hard to approach them.  Also, I didn't quite know how to use a newsgroup reader, which I think (?) was required back then.  Stone Dog had a great website, but I am not sure how active his forums were, or even if he had any.  There was a digital magazine called Dragonsworn, which was so cool that I wanted to be a part of its staff, or just... be... like them. (The name "Dragonmount" partially comes from that desire back then to be like them. I even wanted their name, and truth be told, if they had not been around, I guarantee this website would be called "Dragonsworn.com"). 

 

Also at the time, the Wheel of Time computer game was in development. So there was a fairly big community at www.wheeloftime.com.  But I also found that hard to approach for some reason.  It really frustrated me that I was a big fan of the series and I couldn't find anybody to talk to about WoT.  So, I figured, I would just make a website, put up a message board, invite people to share their ICQ and AIM names, and then I would have people to talk to.  I had taken a 1 hour class in basic HTML design at my university, so I hacked together an UGLY webpage (which I think is hidden online somewhere if you look hard enough), and I advertised it on the WoT sites I knew of. I emailed whoever owned a WoT site at the time that I could find, which was A LOT of people.  Remember, this is back when geocities.com was extremely popular, and everyone had their own website.  Today, it's all about Facebook. Back then, it was all about geocities.

 

When I sent that email out to advertise Dragonmount.com for the first time, I had hundreds of hits within an hour. Thousands within a day. My ICQ and AIM list exploded.  I couldn't believe it.  I had been hoping for a big response, but I wasn't really prepared for one. So it was pretty amazing to see this idea actually living up to the vision that gave it birth.

 

Speaking of visions, was there anything that you really wanted, but simply could not make happen because technology or/and economy said no?

 

Hmm. Good question. I don' think technology was a limit.  I mean, sure, had I been smart enough to think of Facebook or Twitter or Gmail back then I would have wanted DM to be a site that used that technology.  But really my aspirations at the time for the website were mostly just to consolidate WoT fandom to a place where both new readers and old vets could come and discuss the books.  I knew even then that I wouldn't be able to please everyone, so I took a middle-of-the-road approach to how I presented the site.  I had a lot to say about the series, but most of it had already been said.  There were already chapter summaries out there, and theories galore, so I (mostly) didn't try to replicate that. I figured I would invite the people who HAD already done so to come and contribute to the content here, or even make this their WoT home if they wanted to.

 

I mentioned above that prior to starting DM, I was involved in online gaming clans. I really enjoyed the notion of a "clan" and how there were smaller groups of friends who would be a part of a larger website.  I took that idea and came up with the idea of the "Organizations" at Dragonmount.  Everybody who signed up at DM would be a member of the site. But you could also join an "org", or an online club, such as the White Tower, Black Tower, Band of the Red Hand, etc.  Like most of the most successful features of DM, the orgs were almost an afterthought that I added at the last minute.  (RJ's blog, the twitter account, and now the Storm Leaders, were some other awesome ideas that just showed up out of nowhere and were met with huge success).

 

Dragonmount is probably the closest thing to an official wheel of time fan page around--did you realise this was happening, or did you wake up one day and think 'wow, we've got something here'?

 

I knew pretty early on that "we had something" good going.  The volume of response from fans very early on confirmed that. While DM has never been "official" (except for RJ's blog), I think I figured out pretty quickly that fans were coming to the site as their primary place to get news.  Back in 1999 a company called Precedence (now out of business) created a WoT card game.  They were using us as big part of their marketing plan, and would direct a lot of traffic to our site for people to get info on their game.  Shortly after that, Winter's Heart got announced, and we received a reputation as being a credible source of WoT info because we were the first ones to announce the title, post the cover art, etc.  Also, other groups, like Simon & Schuster approached us about being involved in their eBook for the prologue.

 

Even before DM, the Wheel of Time had a very large online presence. As a matter of fact, I'll take it a step further and say that WoT had one of the most wide-spread online fandoms pre-1998. When the book-sellers and other companies figured that out, they searched for places to start, and found DM.

 

Through Dragonmount you have come to have regular contact with the Jordan estate--how did that first come about, and were you surprised to be seen as an organising influence on WoT fandom?

 

Heh.  Well.  I've told this story a few times, but it never gets old.  The first contact I ever had with Robert Jordan was through a Cease and Deist letter. Meaning, his lawyers sent me a formal letter telling me to shut down operation of the project I was working on at the time.  (I was producing an animated movie based on the prologue to EYE OF THE WORLD).  Once I touched based with the lawyers, they said that RJ just wanted to make sure he was involved in such efforts and that I wasn't making any money off of it.  They said he was available to be a consultant on the project and that I could email him directly.

 

I don't think I need to say how COOL it was then to have Robert Jordan's personal email, and to be EXPECTED to write him.

 

Oddly, believe it or not, he was generally very brief in his emails, BTW. He was always working on some books or something. ;-)

 

You met Jim Rigney, got to know him and was even invited to his home for his funeral. How often did these things make you take a step back, draw a deep breath to not be completely overwhelmed? 

 

Yes and no.  Let me explain.  The first time I met him was at a book signing like most people get to meet him.  It was on the Path of Daggers tour. DM was brand new, but was already gaining some steam. I met him at the San Jose book signing, where he read the opening page or two from chapter 24, "A Time for Iron".  It was the only time I've ever heard him read from his books.  I'd give almost anything to have a recording of that. To read the books is one thing. To hear somebody read it another.  But to hear HIM read it was an experience unlike any other.  Seriously.  If you were ever lucky enough to hear him

read his own story, then you know what I mean.

 

On that same day, when I met him in person, I totally froze up when I went to get my book signed. I know that sounds silly, but A LOT of fans have told me that they've had the same experience.  All questions about the story and wild theories went flying out the window and the best I could manage was a heartfelt "Thanks for the books" and shook his hand.  Oh, and I think I gave him a DM t-shirt, which I doubt he ever wore. LOL  (RJ doesn't seem like a t-shirt sorta guy? What do you think?)

 

Anyway, when we started emailing (around 2001 or 2002), I was nervous at first.  But he was quite friendly and we had no problems talking about off-topic things.  Actually, most of our email chats had nothing to do with the books or WoT.  As those emails evolved, I got a little more brave in terms of asking about story-related stuff, but never so pushy as to ask something that he didn't have time to respond to.  About the most I ever got in terms of unpublished info about the series were things related to the "dragonmount" prologue we were working on. He gave me some extremely detailed info about dragonmount (the mountain), and about Shayol Ghul.  He told me about some of the technologies from the Age of Legends; mostly the glow-bulbs that were used as light sources hung on walls.  Things like that.  Actually, I forwarded those emails to Brandon Sanderson several months ago when he was working on GATHERING STORM.  They proved to come in quite handy, as you will see. :)

 

When KNIFE OF DREAMS came out, we had been emailing about once a week or more for 5 years, and had managed to get together for a small group dinner once. (2003 @ Comic Con).  We did another dinner thing in 2005 during the tour, and that was the last I ever saw him in person.

 

So at that point, I wasn't overwhelmed anymore when I had a chance to meet him or be involved.  He called me once at my house, and it wasn't until afterwards that I thought "Holy sh**, Robert Jordan just called my house asking for me, and I wasn't surprised or freaked out."  (He called because he wanted to confirm some plans to meet up while he was on tour)

 

This comfort around him all changed when I went out to his home for his funeral.  *sigh*  Obviously it was a really hard weekend. For me personally, even though I wasn't his family member, and didn't have nearly as deep a connection as most of the other people there, it was difficult to be in his home and not feel his presence.  On the outside Harriet was charming, wonderful, and sweet.  But you could tell she was filled with grief.  Visiting their home is an experience unlike any other I've had before.  It's not like visiting your friend's house. Or your grandma's.  Unless your friends and grandma have THOUSANDS of books, thousands of statues and little trinkets, HUNDREDS of melee weapons, and live in a community that feels like it truly is the Two Rivers.  I did my best to document the experience for all of you, and I think I did a decent job.  But still, to be there and sit in his yard on a cool evening... to sit in his chair at his desk .... to drive in his Porche sports car (heh)  was something that I truly feel blessed to have experienced.  I wish all of his fans could have that. By being there, I really believe that I understand his books just a little bit better. 

 

 

And moving on to the books;

 

You say you identified the most with Rand when you first started reading, has that changed now that you have a family, with all the changes that, as well as age brings?

 

Nope. Like Rand, I have grown as a man and as a leader. I don't mean that to sound arrogant, but I suppose it might be read that way.  What I mean is that just as Rand has grown less naive, and learned hard lessons about life and learned to be stronger and more confident; so have I.  But the truth is that the comparison only goes so far, of course.  In her re-read of the series on Tor.com, Leigh Butler pointed out that in EYE OF THE WORLD, Rand is the most generic of the main characters and that's probably to give readers a chance to self-identify.  For me, that comes in the form of seeing myself as the leader of this WoT community, as well as somebody who has to deal with angry Aes Sedai every day. ;-)

 

Oh, and, it doesn't hurt that we're the same height. I was born in 1978 and Rand was born in 978. lol

 

All that said, there are just as many DIFFERENCES between us, of course.  Like, for example, let me think, oh, I'm not a RAVING MADMAN hearing voices in his head, nor do I have an unrealistic obsession with protecting women, and I don't have three wives. ... I have four. Haha, just kidding.

 

If you had to name one moment or plotline in the series as your favourite, what would it be?

 

Just ONE?  Hmmm. This might change every time you ask me, but for now, I'll go with the scene near the end of Path of Daggers where Rand gives Fedwin Morr a poisoned cup to make him "sleep".  Fedwin is a teenager, and an Asha'man who has gone mad.  He gives him the drink and holds him as he dies.  Min is there with them, and tells Rand he can cry.  Rand does not.

 

And since we obviously can not have an interview without mentioning Asmodean at least once, who was your very first suspect?

 

Lanfear. 

 

All of us have once in a while come up with some theory we are absolutely convinced are true, only to see a later book completely rip it apart. Which favourite theory of yours did you get to see ripped apart?

 

Right after reading PATH OF DAGGERS, I had this theory that Cyndane was Lanfear reborn into the body of llyena.  'Cause if YOU were the Dark One, and you wanted to really, REALLY punish Lanfear for getting herself killed, the worst punishment I could think of would be to put her in the body of the woman who stole the man she loved.  The physical descriptions were close.  But once I really looked into it, (and had RJ outright reject it over email), my hopes were crushed. :(

 

During your emails/encounters with RJ did he ever reveal some inconsequential little thing you can tell us--nothing plot related, just like a 'Latra Posae Decume liked cats' type of thing?

 

Not really.  He told me about glowbulbs from the Age of Legends.  He told me a lot about the geography of Dragonmount and Shayol Ghul.  And he confirmed for me for sure that Min's viewing of Rand's injured hand was fulfilled at the end of KNIFE OF DREAMS.  (duh)  But that's about all that I recall offhand.

 

What noise did you make when you were told you were getting an advanced read of tGS?

 

Well, as weird as this sounds, I wasn't terribly surprised.  The first time Brandon and I ever spoke over the phone was just a short while after he was given the job. I don't think he had even started writing. He just said that he would ask Harriet if I could get an early copy.

 

And to be clear: it wasn't an advance copy. (Those were not made for TGS).  At one point a run to Kinko's was made, and the "book" was printed on 800+ pages of regular paper.

 

How often do you re-read the series, or how many times would you say you've read it.

 

This is going to sound crazy, but I've only read the whole series twice.  And the most recent books once.  I know; I bet you were expecting a different answer from me huh?  But just because I've only read the books a few times, don't think I don't have a deep, deep understanding of them.  I frequently check passages, and not a day goes by where they're not on my mind. I am aware of preety much all the theories out there, I've read the entire WoTFAQ, I check Encylopedia WoT on a regular basis, and I'm a stickler for how the characters "sound."   

 

Now that I think on it, I've read EoTW more. Probably 4 or 5. In addition, I've listened to the audio books for EotW and Great Hunt 2-3 times. 

 

Once the series is all done, I'd like to do a full re-read.

 

Have you ever accidentally found yourself saying something like 'blood and bloody ashes' or 'burn you'?

 

Of course. My wife once looked at me crazy when I exclaimed "Mother's milk in a cup!"

 

You say you identify very strongly with Rand (except for the raving lunacy), do you then hope for redemption in Rand's future? Or do you see him as more the tragic hero?

 

I shouldn't really comment on this as I've read TGS, and some events in there directly relate to this question.  But I will say that, before reading TGS, I had always believed that yes, Rand would be a tragic figure. I didn't necessarily think he'd die per se, but I do think that his legacy will not be as straight forward as people (including him) will think.

 

Actually: here's another looney theory for you.  I'm calling this now.  At the end of the series, Rand lives, but it is not HE who is remembered as the dragon.  Logain will be the one who is remembered as the Dragon Reborn over the course of the next thousand years.  (LIke I said... looney.  Not likely to happen, but I enjoy it)

 

If you had to choose between one of the following slogans to be the Dragonmounts slogan, which would it be? a) Taim is NOT Demandred. b) Mother's milk in a cup! c) Bela is just a horse!

 

I'll go with "Mother's...".  As I said above, I've used that before. :) 

 

If you were a woman, which Ajah would you be?

 

LOL. Um... Probably Blue.  Or Yellow.

 

You mentioned how you really were in the Two Rivers when you visited Jim Rigney's home. Have you ever felt something similar in other places, even if it is just looking at the neighbours nasty garden and thinking that it looks a bit like the Blight?

 

Not as strongly as that.  At times when I'm out in nature, in the mountains or forest, I often feel like I've stepped into a world of fantasy.  Most people who live in the suburbs or urban area do, of course.  But specifically for WoT?  Nope. Just Charleston.

 

You have been in the film industry for quite some time. Does that affect how you read the books, like do you see the scenes play out as you read them?

 

Yes, I do. RJ writes in such a way that is hard not to see the scenes play out for you in specific and interesting ways. His use of imagery is one of the strong points in his writing. Even the slower chapters play out nicely in a cinematic way.

 

Has there been anything/anyone in the books you have been disappointed with, or even disliked?

 

Definitely. Some of the characters bug me. Gawyn is one.  I wanted to throttle him in TGS. 

 

In your time amongst the WoT fan community whats the weirdest idea you've ever encountered/weirdest thing you've heard said?

 

Oh geez. Well Melissa might kill me for this, but I confess that one of the most unusual and eye-raising things I ever heard of were the actual ceremonies her site holds where you are raised or bonded.  Not that it ever stopped me from being involved in one...... lol

 

I remember Robert Jordan used to say that he would sign anything you wanted him to, or take photos with anybody as long as there was "no male nudity".  :D

 

And although it's less funny today, but there were some tough biker dudes who once told RJ that if he died without finishing the series they'd desecrate his grave. O_o    Like I said... not so funny now.  I think they meant it at a joke though.

 

I hope.

 

You have also met Brandon Sanderson, is he every bit the fanboy he seems to be on his blog?

 

Totally. There's no doubt that he loves these books and has a deep, intimate knowledge of how they work. You can tell that he's dying to just talk about all these cool revelations at the end of the series, but has to hold back.

 

Had you read any of Brandons books when you learned he was chosen to finish WOT? If not, how long did it take you to pick up Mistborn?

 

I had not read him before this.  The first time I heard of him was when I was at RJ's home.  I was there the morning that Elise printed up Brandon's Eulogy for Harriet.  I remember Wilson showing it to me and I read it thinking "Huh. This is nice."

 

Once I heard he had accepted the job (I heard a few days before the news went public), I went to the store that day and bought Mistborn.

 

We are now seeing the end of tWOT at the horizon, with the planned release of AMOL in 2011, and then Harriets encyclopedia to wrap things up a year or two after that. What are your thoughts about the future of Dragonmount.com after that?

 

This is hardly the end of WoT. The main sequence of books will be complete in 2011. And then 2012 for the encyclopedia. But even beyond that, WoT will still be in print, and, if anything, Tor is only going to put out MORE editions of it (new cover art, etc).  Not to mention the possibility of other prequel or "outrigger" novels.  So there will always be more readers, and more people who want to discuss the series.

 

Secondly, it's quite possible that one of these days somebody will make a WoT movie. And if there is a major studio-backed effort to make a film based on the books, then we'll see a huge invasion of newbies interested in the material. Even if the movie isn't any good, people will flock to the books to check them out.

 

So I honestly don't see WoT, or dragonmount, going away anytime soon.  Things will change though.  We won't be able to speculate on who killed Asmodean anymore (Brandon promises to answer it somewhere in books 12-14). There won't be as many theories, but there's always going to be something to talk about.

 

I guess you could say that 2011 will bring us into a new Age. But there are no endings to the Wheel of Time.

 

 

Thanks for asking all these great questions. It was a lot of fun."

 

Thank you Jason, for taking your time to answer this.

 

[Quibby]

If I may be so bold... putting up with this particular collection of nutcases and dramatis personae automatically awards you with the honorary white coat with optional extra-long sleeves.