Aiel male channeler?

[Guest Fire Lord]

Hi guys, just a thought, we've seen channelers from pretty much everywhere. My question is, how come we'ven't seen an Aiel male channeler? Obviously, they don't have to go to the Blight anymore, but you would think with that whole bunch of them in the Wetlands some would come forward. True, all of those are warriors and most probably not interested in channeling, but I would think one or two would have the spark. And what about those back in the Waste?

And how dangerous would be a an Aiel warrior who can channel? Aiel are deadly, so are Asha'man in their own way, so a combination...

Any thought?

[Jonn]

It really would be an issue Rand has to take up with the Wise Ones of the faithful clans. He is the Chief of Chiefs but an issue like men chanelling is something that would involve both the Chiefs and the Wise Ones to come to a concensus about.

 

Obviously there is no need to throw their lives away. They vow to go to Shayol Ghul anyhow to try to kill the Dark One, but everyone knows that this is an impossibility. It's more of a tradition based on necessity. Now that the necessity for getting rid of potential madmen is gone, the tradition should be re-evaluated.

 

If Rand is able to convince the Aiel leadership that there is a better way to use these men to fight the Dark One, a more viable chance to strike in an organized fashion with trained warriors weilding the One Power, certainly he'll have a great weapon at hand come TG.

[Luckers]

Yes i've always felt that post-cleansing or even pre, ignoring the Aiel men who can channel... and indeed, to a certain extent the women too, was just weak on Rand's part. By that i mean not badly written, just stupid for rand.

 

What about the Sea Folk? he should have made testing the men and requiring the sparkers to come to the Black Tower a part of the Bargain... but no.

[Guest cwestervelt]

Don't forget who negotiated the Bargain for him. There is no way that Meranna and the other Aes Sedai would have included that in the discussions in any serious way. No matter what Rand's instructions to them, they would have found some way to make sure it didn't go through.

[Gurney]

John

It really would be an issue Rand has to take up with the Wise Ones of the faithful clans. He is the Chief of Chiefs but an issue like men chanelling is something that would involve both the Chiefs and the Wise Ones to come to a concensus about.

 

I don't really believe it would be an issue that the Chiefs and Wise Ones would need to decide on. From my understanding, no man who can channel is TOLD to go to the blight, they just feel it is their obligation since they do have the ability.

 

As for Aiel men channelers, it would be great to see. But because of the way their society has always been (and there only being one more book in the series) I doubt we'll see it. Ohh, and what I mean by there society is like their sense of honor. If they can channel, instead of hiding it or causing hurt to the people...they leave.

[Luckers]

Don't forget who negotiated the Bargain for him. There is no way that Meranna and the other Aes Sedai would have included that in the discussions in any serious way. No matter what Rand's instructions to them' date=' they would have found some way to make sure it didn't go through.[/quote']

 

That's true... but part of that comes from the fact that Rand didn't think his way through it before making his demands. If he had thought of this the simple answer is merely to have someone else sit in on the bargaining.

 

Frankly i find the alliance with the sea folk rather pointless... yes its nice to have water forces, and for carrying supplies along the coast and all that, but really, what use are they going to be in the Last Battle.

[Jonn]

John

It really would be an issue Rand has to take up with the Wise Ones of the faithful clans. He is the Chief of Chiefs but an issue like men chanelling is something that would involve both the Chiefs and the Wise Ones to come to a concensus about.

 

I don't really believe it would be an issue that the Chiefs and Wise Ones would need to decide on. From my understanding' date=' no man who can channel is TOLD to go to the blight, they just feel it is their obligation since they do have the ability.

 

As for Aiel men channelers, it would be great to see. But because of the way their society has always been (and there only being one more book in the series) I doubt we'll see it. Ohh, and what I mean by there society is like their sense of honor. If they can channel, instead of hiding it or causing hurt to the people...they leave.[/quote']

 

A valid thought, that they simply go, but I think the Wise Ones and the Clan Chiefs would have to seriously consider a directive that comes from Rand.

Ji'e'toh is certainly an individual code in many ways, but we well know that it hasn't stopped Chiefs and Wise Ones from directing how their people implement the code.

The Aiel are pledged to follow the Caracarn. If he says something should be done and it is supported by the CLan leaders, it will be done.

[Luckers]

Not nessasarily. Aiel rulership is dictational.

 

Moreover i suspect we will see the Aiel men channelers in the form of dreadlords forced to the dark by a the thirteen & thirteen method.

[Jonn]

Not nessasarily. Aiel rulership is dictational.

 

Huh? You mean dictatorial?

 

A warrior's duty is to do what is best for the clan and the society he or whe serves. The individual's interpretation of ji'e'toh though' date=' if unchecked, could actually be contrary to what a Chief or Wise One would rule. There are many examples of this. In Shadow Rising alone, Amys and the Dreamwalkers speak several times about having to convince warriors to do what was best for the clan despite that individual's strong ideas of honor. There is a sense of absolute rule once a Wise One or Chief speaks, but unless that is done, a warrior does things according to their own beliefs, or as mediated by his or her relations, society heads and more minor figures ie sept chiefs.

 

In other words, they are open to self-interpretation of the code, unless told otherwise by a higher authority.

 

It's a theme with the Aiel, the struggle between the individual's interpretation of ji'e'toh and what the larger body defines it as. Often times, the individual's interpretation wins out over the authority's intentions.

 

It's far more complicated than a situation of absolute rule.

 

Moreover i suspect we will see the Aiel men channelers in the form of dreadlords forced to the dark by a the thirteen & thirteen method.

 

That would be a possibility I suppose, but I think it would be too much of a distraction to go into that element with much detail.

 

Somehow I get the sense that the whole issue will get a simple mention on the side, that, yes, the Wise Ones and Chiefs start to send groups of sparkers to Rand for preparation to aid him. They know the Last battle is coming, so why not gather all of the weapons they can and present them to the Car'a'carn for service?

 

I can't imagine warriors going to the Black Tower to learn to channel, when they have been training all of their lives to fight in the way that was taught to them from childhood. There must be some, though, with the ambition to become more powerful than a batallion of trollocs, just by themselves.

 

Again, I can't see RJ spending more than a paragraph to mention it in passing and then later again to explain some detail about the clash at the Last Battle.

[Luckers]

I don't get you John... im arguing against absolute rule, and you counter-act they by... arguing against absolute rule?

 

Whilst the question would be one the Wise One and Clan Chiefs would have to debate, in no way does their decision bind all of Aiel culture.

 

That would be a possibility I suppose, but I think it would be too much of a distraction to go into that element with much detail.

 

That wouldn't be a problem... it wouldn't need to be explained, they just start rocking up in fights and people are going to pretty much get the fact that they are the aiel men who have been going north. As for the wise ones and the normal aiel... i dont see it ever being covered... not even touched upon.

[Jonn]

I don't get you John... im arguing against absolute rule' date=' and you counter-act they by... arguing against absolute rule?

 

Whilst the question would be one the Wise One and Clan Chiefs would have to debate, in no way does their decision bind all of Aiel culture.

 

That would be a possibility I suppose, but I think it would be too much of a distraction to go into that element with much detail.

 

That wouldn't be a problem... it wouldn't need to be explained, they just start rocking up in fights and people are going to pretty much get the fact that they are the aiel men who have been going north. As for the wise ones and the normal aiel... i dont see it ever being covered... not even touched upon.

 

I probably just didn't get what you were trying to say then.

 

About the forced Dreadlords...You'd have to explain that they were forced, and that they are Aiel and that they were born with the spark and had gone north.

It takes a great deal to do the 13 and 13, so then begs the question as to who the Shadow would bother turning, which would make the individuals rather exceptional in strength, and the fact that they are individually selected makes it a situation where elaboration on their character is needed.

 

I think it's just another story element that would clog it up, especially in the last book.

 

It just doesn't need to be dwelt upon and if you take the time to mention it, you're going to have to do so a bit and I think it's a detail that should be edited out if even mentioned in the early draft.

 

In Lord of the Rings there was a whole section of the main battle that took place between the Dwarves and Humans against Orcs from the North. Elrond and his Elves were fighting as were Galadriel's elves, but the focus was rightly put on Gondor and Frodo. The other battles, although major in scope, were only mentioned in passing, and the details were only given in the appendices.

 

As big as the scope RJ uses, I think there is a limit to be drawn and justification in leaving some details out. While it's a neat idea to think about Aiel forced Dreadlords, it's just another reach that doesn't really need to be mentioned unless there's an important character bit to come from it. At this point the narrative has too many arcs going to add any more.

 

Don't get me wrong though. It would be a neat little addendum.

[Luckers]

About the forced Dreadlords...You'd have to explain that they were forced, and that they are Aiel and that they were born with the spark and had gone north.

 

You see, no you dont. All that would need to be done would be to have them start to turn up, it would be perfectly acceptable to keep their origins a mystery at first--possibly by having one of the Forsaken encounter them, think of them as Moridins creatures, and wonder where they are from.

 

RJ quite often leaves it up to his reader to make the connections. Even if he did want to he could do it second hand, by having one of the characters guess their origins (Semirhage would be a prime candidate for this, but any who know of the the 13/13 thing) You wouldn't need to show it happening.

 

Also, the dificulties of doing it are negated by having a group of thirteen female channelers, and thirteen myrdraal off doing only that--they would need to be Aes Sedai, Ishamael could easily have taught any darkfriend female channeler from cany culture... including places like the Land of the Madmen, the Sea Folk or, as is most likely, the Aiel themselves.

[metaphor]

I have been hoping for a long time that Aiel male channelers will be Rand's secret weapon, one that nobody is expecting. But we've never even seen hints of it, so I don't know if it's possible.

I fully expect some Aiel channelers who went to the blight to turn up as dreadlord though.