Logistics of Dragon fire through gateways? And Hello!

[Aan-Alone]

I've been a fan of this book series since...I don't remember when actually. I got sucked in via a marketing campaign. The local bookstore I frequented was giving away the first half of TEoTW for free. It worked. It worked so well in fact that I don't even remember reading the three "Alien" series books I bought at the time.

 

I've been a lurker for decades?, recently finished a complete readthrough and discovered "River of Souls" and "The Strike at SG". Strange to find new content after all these years. And reading all those posts about how Sharans COULDN'T be introduced that late in the series, due to various well thought out reasoning, did and still does make me chuckle. In retrospect, I believe this was a masterstroke for whichever author was responsible. Simply because it was unexpected while RoS provides a foundation, however meager, for the Sharan inclusion in the main storyline.

 

I ramble. A common trait on this site. Back on topic.

 

I've been through roughly 250 pages of forum posts and haven't seen this discussed yet. How exactly were Talmanes, Aludra, and Co. executing the logistics of firing the dragons through those gateways? I remember how it was described in the book. I'm talking about how were the two? AM briefed on where to open the lethal gateways? Were they using battlefield maps? A super-descriptive statement from Aludra [IIRC Aludra was in an elevated position and acting as spotter]? Was the battlefield small enough that each AM "knew" the area or did the AMs have to first Travel near where the lethal windows would open [which is crazy dangerous]? Did the AMs remain stationary or rotate between Talmanes' and Aludra's positions?

 

Discuss.

 

As far as Outriggers and expanded content...

Turn RoS into a complete novel. Demandred went through...something...during the 2 years he was in Shara. IMO, RoS takes place right before Demandred shows up in AMoL. I suspect the something Demandred went through parallels Rand's story in many, many ways. Both humanizing and dehumanizing Demandred, as well as the Sharans. I don't think I'm alone in wanting to read more from this perspective.

 

Fav character development...all of them. But most especially Talmanes. The part in AMoL where someone describes his smile as gruesome/hideous? and that he should do it more often...climactic. It's the first time I recall someone using Talmanes' form of humour against him. I wonder if he got the joke?

 

This site is impressive, as far as internet forum sites go. Mods and Admin, I tip my hat to you. Good job and very well done.

 

May you ALL always find peace and shade.

[Scarloc99]

So I always saw it as Aludra would pick the target, and there was either a gridwork map, or at least a deep knowledge of the battlefield, there would have had to be to be able to create gateways in the exact spot. 

This was for me one of the few bits of the last battle that I have consistently enjoyed, I have a very low opinion of that book and BS's writing in general through the series. 

As an aside, the message Talmanes gives Matt about the state of the Dragons really feels like BS channeling his inner trekie as there is a similar exchange, in, I believe the Wrath of Kahn, where Spock tells Kirk how long it will take to repair the enterprise and Kirk explains Days is Hours, and Hours is Minutes or something. 

And as a second aside, I always wondered, was Demandred always intended to be the Sharan dragon, or did he steal this from Rand, could Rand have "completed all the prophecies about him round the world", or was there always a choice that needed ot be made, if Rand had got the Sharans he loses the Seanchan or Aiel for instance. 

[wotfan4472]

I think that Seanchan was the loss if Rand got the Sharans. Because of his heritage, the Aiel would stay regardless. They also had the most contact with Shara, far more than Cairhein, so more knowledge could be gained before approaching them.

 

In fact, I have a feeling the future of the world would be totally different if Shara was under Rand's control instead, especially with the Innacal custom. It is almost like the gai shain custom, only permanent, and is regardless of channelling, which is a fascinating part of it, compared with damane and dacovale, and how they react when freed. 

 

At the end of the day, the Sharans were away to explain all the ripples that were occurring between Lord Of Chaos, and A Memory Of Light. Those ripples were Demandred balefiring entire cities in Shara, since they are direct match to Moraine's knowledge of the effect during the War Of Power, through documents the White Tower library possesses.

Edited September 26, 2023 by wotfan4472

[DojoToad]

16 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

I think that Seanchan was the loss if Rand got the Sharans. Because of his heritage, the Aiel would stay regardless. They also had the most contact with Shara, far more than Cairhein, so more knowledge could be gained before approaching them.

 

In fact, I have a feeling the future of the world would be totally different if Shara was under Rand's control instead, especially with the Innacal custom. It is almost like the gai shain custom, only permanent, and is regardless of channelling, which is a fascinating part of it, compared with damane and dacovale, and how they react when freed. 

 

At the end of the day, the Sharans were away to explain all the ripples that were occurring between Lord Of Chaos, and A Memory Of Light. Those ripples were Demandred balefiring entire cities in Shara, since they are direct match to Moraine's knowledge of the effect during the War Of Power, through documents the White Tower library possesses.

I never thought of the Seanchan as controlled by Rand - though he did secure grudging cooperation.

 

I'm on my next readthrough - just finished the tGH.  I will have to remember to look for the ripples you describe.  I never thought of the balefire being used on that scale before the Last Battle.  Very interesting concept - to me.

[wotfan4472]

The most important moment, is when Faile is still captured by the Shaido, and reality ripples three times.

 

There were also other times similar effects happened in other books. All of those caused by Demandred's balefire.

[DojoToad]

22 hours ago, wotfan4472 said:

The most important moment, is when Faile is still captured by the Shaido, and reality ripples three times.

 

There were also other times similar effects happened in other books. All of those caused by Demandred's balefire.

Damn!  That's why I love this website.  Never would have made that connection on my own.  Correct or not, on this read-through I will be going in as if it is fact. 👍

[Aan-Alone]

On 9/25/2023 at 5:36 AM, Scarloc99 said:

So I always saw it as Aludra would pick the target, and there was either a gridwork map, or at least a deep knowledge of the battlefield, there would have had to be to be able to create gateways in the exact spot. 

This was for me one of the few bits of the last battle that I have consistently enjoyed, I have a very low opinion of that book and BS's writing in general through the series. 

As an aside, the message Talmanes gives Matt about the state of the Dragons really feels like BS channeling his inner trekie as there is a similar exchange, in, I believe the Wrath of Kahn, where Spock tells Kirk how long it will take to repair the enterprise and Kirk explains Days is Hours, and Hours is Minutes or something. 

And as a second aside, I always wondered, was Demandred always intended to be the Sharan dragon, or did he steal this from Rand, could Rand have "completed all the prophecies about him round the world", or was there always a choice that needed ot be made, if Rand had got the Sharans he loses the Seanchan or Aiel for instance. 

Scarloc99, I recall your username from when I first discovered these forums. Peace! Glad we've both yet to feel the Mother's last embrace.

 

I think there's clues as to how it may have been done. I have some ideas I'll post later.

 

I was/will be so very thankful BS was able to complete the series. My first read through of those books, I was somewhat disappointed. I felt I could tell which parts of those books were RJ and which were BS. And this distraction? didn't allow me to enjoy the story as before, when the words were all RJ.

[I'm a Trekkie too and I so want to throw in a "Come. Share your Pain with Me." or whatever Spock's brother says in the 5th outing.]

I've never read anything else by BS that I can recall. And after a pause of a decade or more, I didn't recall noticing any difference in the writing. I noticed character changes, but those characters had it coming and it somehow all felt natural this time around.

I'm not looking for the difference anymore.

 

My take on Demandred's role...it was designed for him, by the Shadow and before the sealing, as a possible counter to the Light's champion. Same form of rule, unbroken, since the Breaking. Had Rand attempted their trials, he would have either failed or been corrupted somehow. Had Demandred gained the Angreal sooner, and come out of Shara as the "DragonSlayer", onto the Randland politic in a somewhat polite manner...very, very different story with maybe a not so happy ending

[Aan-Alone]

On 9/25/2023 at 8:33 PM, wotfan4472 said:

I think that Seanchan was the loss if Rand got the Sharans. Because of his heritage, the Aiel would stay regardless. They also had the most contact with Shara, far more than Cairhein, so more knowledge could be gained before approaching them.

 

In fact, I have a feeling the future of the world would be totally different if Shara was under Rand's control instead, especially with the Innacal custom. It is almost like the gai shain custom, only permanent, and is regardless of channelling, which is a fascinating part of it, compared with damane and dacovale, and how they react when freed. 

 

At the end of the day, the Sharans were away to explain all the ripples that were occurring between Lord Of Chaos, and A Memory Of Light. Those ripples were Demandred balefiring entire cities in Shara, since they are direct match to Moraine's knowledge of the effect during the War Of Power, through documents the White Tower library possesses.

That is a very cool connection and I will have to remember this for my next time around the Wheel.

I seem to recall...someone...going through/experiencing a series of three ripples and feeling as if a fourth ripple would tear reality apart. Was that Faile?

[Aan-Alone]

Clues:

 

1. Entire battle takes place at Merrilor.

2. We have a map, so everyone who needs a map has one. That being Aludra, and the two AM, Grady? and Neald?

3. In the PoVs from Talmanes, I don't think the AM with him ever changes.

4. Channelers can open Gateways to anywhere, in a very precise manner, within a short range of a previous Gateway they made. New Gateway must be opened in/on spot of previous gateway.

5. Cave isn't moving. 😉

6. Aludra and her AM may be going out scouting locations but the position she's operating from is on top of the plateau. I think this is presented once but maybe not all at once. So the location where the "firing coords" are originating from isn't changing either.

 

I think that's enough. My conclusion is the two AM are talking to each other. The scouting AM able to provide enough detail to the cave AM for accurate placement. Or they could have been rotating but no evidence to support.

 

Cerebrum appreciated the exercise. Cheers! And thanks for the participation!