I answered my own question, sort of. In the intro thread, it states that roles from the list that follows MAY be included. So I think we can't be 100% sure that any role exists in the game. Is this a this game thing or standard mafia setup boilerplate in 2025?

@DPR I feel like I read somewhere that not all listed roles are guaranteed to be in the game, and some might enter the game as it progresses. Am I just making stuff up now? Thank you.

Shame. I never get mail.

@Ithillian Turambar I think you're getting a bit mixed up. In the quote post above the middle post where you think you see me flip flopping, I'm stating it's likely more tempting for mafia to stay harness the power of chat vs the power of one vote. I just don't think I made myself clear as Shad has already alluded to. Dead townies I've always maintained should take the vote option unless other circumstances dictate the voice is more important.

I was rereading a bit and noticed this - was I not meant to be the 3rd vote for some reason? I totally missed that if so.

I accept this. I am playing vibes mafia and my words are often wordy. I am available for clarifications. Apologies.

This is getting formattingly ugly but @Shad_ this is the post where I feel SD is talking about how this play feels targetted at him. That pot shot comment is referring to mafia making SD look bad by killing Darthe, no? Like do your thing, shake it up, but I feel my arguments are sound.

The play as I see it: Mafia notice Darthe has no SD read during the post. SD makes a 'big' deal of it in thread. NK in on Darthe. SD "Whelp, I look sus now huh?" I feel like SD tangled himself in Darthe business, only so he could later say "I'm too tangled in Darthe business, it's far too suspicious of me as mafia to kill Darthe, therefore I am not mafia." --- So, mafia taking advantage of the SD miss from Darthe's read, is my main theory. The alternative is it's not SD, but I don't think it it's Ithi, less so Turin. A deep dive on Heavy would be my next uh item I guess if the SD train derails. But given what I feel like I saw in SDs language when addressing certain topics, I'm ok leaving the vote for now.

I mean, I don't know what else to call that. SD was calling Ithi's near-death interactions with Darthe as a possible bit of future manufactured evidence to be used against her. Ostensibly SD is doing this to flag that Ithi's interactions are NOT necessarily sus. Given SD's in the same boat, ie, interacted with Darthe near to his death, if there's a successful argument to be made that Ithi's behaviour wasn't sus, SD can hope to then apply that argument to their own clutch of interactions. Given I do find SD's interactions (mentions and non-mentions, really) with Darthe to be sus before this convo regardless, I guess I'm just feeding my own beliefs with this proxy observation. But the pieces fit together for me, so onward I press. I've no better candidate. SD was very quick to point out how this NK was all about trapping him in a situation (which maybe I've fallen for), or Darthe was killed because he knew too much. I think this is too narrow a thought process, and it's very conceivable that SD spent the night positioning himself to appear "too obvious" a mafia patsy.

Is he not? What am I missing?

He's defending his own situation by proxy. SD also talked about Darthe and Darthe immediately died. If he can clear Ithi from that situation, it also clears himself. Wrinkly.

So Townish on Ithi, Turin, ... Maybe shad? I liked the few contributions that were made there. Mafia-ish on Heavy, Peace. Just based on me not liking interactions that were had in these corners. I don't think it's likely for Peace, Heavy, and SD to all be mafia, but I suspect at least one there is. I know huge call, 3/14 odds. SD flipping mafia (oh nooooo) doesn't preclude me thinking more about these players it should be said. Neutral on Leelou and Teph, they've been in the thread but I've not absorbed anything notable from these corners. Null on Gud, dice, Tigraine, and Ed. More from these 4 would be most enlightening. But until then, Vote SinisterDeath

I'm currently landing on Sinister as a slightly panicked mafia. Interactions with Turin felt a little pushed during setup spec chat. Maybe trying to shake something out of Turin, or maybe mafia trying to gain traction/a case on a lynch target (who I am leaning on town on, full disclosure). I just read it and it feels a little forced from SD. During said chat SD mentioned that "It never occurred to me that the mafia could pass a role to X and then night kill them to remove the role" which I find a little disingenuous. That's kind of the premise of the whole thing right? Mileage may vary on this one for folks who themselves didn't "get" this from the game intro, so, take what you will. My next timeline note I have here that just says Heavy vs Sinister. Presumably I didn't like any of it and I certainly don't remember it. But the note itself denotes what I feel to be genuine "conflict", so perhaps something to return to later but no coroner oh nooo. The horror of that might be kicking in. I am leaning slightly mafia for Heavy but I don't think both Heavy and SD are together. And my lean is stronger for SD at this time, obviously. SD then mentions Darthe during stump/spirit musings. On this side of a Darthe NK, it can be read as planting mentions of Darthe in the timeline to later come back and say "if I was going to NK him, why would I interact so much with him?" Then Darthe's death and the jokes ... Ehhhhh not great? The worst part for me is the assumption that the NK on Darthe can only be one of two things (with a third thing snuck in to bury it's priority in your thinking): Either Darthe's list was CORRECT, or this is a TRAP to SETUP SD. I don't like the language or assumptions he forces the reader to make when parsing the arguments. It feels like I'm being lead. Finally... "Mafia KNOW I'm town..." is a horrible statement, not least of which because it is simply not true. Even if you aren't mafia, you might be anything else. But I really dislike what this statement is trying to shorthand. We all know the mafia know the other mafia. It's a very unnecessary sentence. So - yeah, I think SD is popping off the pages with my most likely mafia read. Not gonna lie the details in the conversation between Ithi and SD are very gloss-over-able, but it seems like Ithi is winning and I have a neutral to town lean there. From what I can tell, Ithi doesn't think SD's arguments hold up.

Might actually be the first acronym I understand across this whole thread.

Catching up due to Australia. Dead Coroner seems perfect in that we all signed up for a DPR experience, and I don't think anything else that could have come out of N1 would so perfectly contribute to this particular DPR experience. Vibes mafia only, no mechanical help provided. Anyway. Funny. Darthe was probably the first one I can remember earlier on in the thread to shake some trees and make some noise. I actually had a slight mistrustful read on him because it seemed too much too fast based on what had happened in the thread up until that time (and he fingered me!), but context clues in the thread tell me that's just Darthe being Darthe, apparently. And, well, he's flipped as town. So mafia sees his posted reads early on. They couldn't have known he'd flip and clear his own ass, but they did want him dead. Was Darthe too close to the truth, or way off base and thus the death kicks off a wild goose chase? I'll go back now and check out his posts. I don't recall getting much from them during the first pass though. TBC

But he's ALWAYS MAFIA. It's right there! RE setup speculation - my only takeaways are a) the dead vote block is likely of above average trust, and b) I think dead and voting is more powerful for town than mafia. I don't know how to use any of that yet. And thus ends the train of thought; you are indeed welcome.

Vote Bob

I think if the mafia in question is good at directing a crowd, maintaining a voice might be more powerful than keeping a single vote. But the same could be said for a dead townie so I guess I'm just running in circles here. I think the temptation to stay more present in the game via chatting would be moreso for me if I was playing mafia.

At the very least, I think it's valid to want dead town folk to continue to vote purely to maintain town voting pool (though the ones who come back chatting obviously have their chance to explain why). Also - less people talking means more spotlight per person. And less rereading. Win win.

At any point past say, night 2, after there's whatever critical mass of dead folks, on average there's more dead town than dead mafia, that's just numbers. That means votes from the dead block on average become more trustworthy? I'm thinking out loud here. This might actually mean nothing but the maths potential tricked me into thinking about it. The dead voters can see the thread obviously so can be told to vote X. As a block, the dead vote should be mostly town and directable by any obvious/confirmed town remaining in game proper. If dead mafia are voting with the block....??? Is this anything?

I genuinely don't think I could confirm or deny this. Was I a good mafia player? Bad? I don't remember. One thing you can't take away from me though? I was for sure an absolute mafia player.

A down under yank from a page 3 girl is all I've managed to take away from this conversation. To be fair, decent conversation material. Hello folks. It's been literally a decade since I have played. Expect great things. *Great as in large. **Things as in mistakes.

/re-in *mysterious berf noises*