i find it strange to be called a troll or my views on rand al thor as disheartening. Like i have said so many times over again. I never had a problem with rand al thor's character until he degenerated to a total halfwit with massive temper problems. I don't know why everyone thinks i am supposed to feel sorry or sympathise with the raging tool. Is it because he is supposed to save the world as everyone puts it that one should sympathise with him? Yeah he's in pain. He's hurt. He's hated etc This justfies him acting like a total jackass. yeah right.

the thing is i find the whole business of someone dying so that he can save the world as completely laughable and still do. But that's another story all together. However what's more funny is seeing the 'saviour' has total unredeeming qualities. Don't get me wrong. I will read the books to it's logical conclusion like everyone else. But that's how i feel anyways about rand al thor. I know it's not conventional wisdom to dislike central characters in a book but hey i can't help it if i find rand's character as repulsive.

my faves have changed as the series progressed. currently it has to be mat. perrin is a total wuss and has his man cred baten out of him by faile and rand is just a emotionless lunatic

I wonder if he's some kind of sleeper agent...Sent to sow dissention and dislike...It is quite hard to believe that he's a fan of the books at all. Beyond the base elements of it. The One Power, the battles etc.

;D dissension and dislike? wow i knew i liked padan fain's character but i did'nt realise i was starting to take on his personality traits too  :o 8)

i started reading the wheel of time since i was 18 years old. i am fan of the books. I have converted alot of my friends many of them who don't even read novels to begin with to WOT fans. However i am not a fan of rand al thor. Never was beyond book 5 and looks like never will either. I think the idea of a  total unfeeling pitiless clown as the saviour of the world is probaby the 'sickest', biggest most outrageous idea ever seen in a book. I have read so many books where the central character all died in battle or sacrifices and you can't help feeling sad over it.

Fat chance of that ever happening over rand al thor. 

the dragon reborn almost killed his own friend. saviour? nah. lunatic is more like it. No matter how many excuses you guys make for him, no matter how may times you try to justify his actions the fact that he looks at his friends like pawns and nearly killed his own friend renders him as a complete unfeeling shadow. He lacks compassion and empathy save for his three trollop lovers.

There is nothing redeeming about rand al thor.

Oh by the way phariah raistlin majere was not meant to save the world. In fact he wanted to be a God at one point.  

um.. ya but he actually saved it  ::)

 

Rand is a man fated to break the world some believe close to another true shattering of the world :'(

yet he is gonna save it even with his life if need be same way Raistlin did ;D

only after realising the consequences of his dumb ass move of gaining godhood. raistlin did'nt want to take down takhisis out of kindness of his heart but because it was his ambition and lust for power.

perhaps you need to read the books again.

Anyone who uses his own friends and treats them like shit is no saviour. . . . He's just a rabid dog with the sole sick purpose of saving the world.

Isn't that sort of contradictory?

you forgot that i mentioned the word sick in there? and the world's greatest joke? perhaps i should have used inverted commas over the word saving the world?

Excuses excuses excuses. Oh poor rand. he's hated. he's in pain. he's misunderstood. he's the saviour of the world. he's this or that. blah blah blah.

Anyone who uses his own friends and treats them like shit is no saviour. Anyone who even remotely comprehends hurting his own friends, the same friends he grew up with is a saviour of nothing. He's just a rabid dog with the sole sick purpose of saving the world. It is the world's greatest joke. I hope demandred or padan fain put an end to this tool. wishful thinking i suppose although one can dream.

Oh by the way phariah raistlin majere was not meant to save the world. In fact he wanted to be a God at one point. 

vam,

it's not a question of minor characters or major characters. Everyone here has their faves. And when they appear on a chapter you read such chapters more carefully and with more eagerness. So yes i will read rand's POV obviously but not with the same eagerness and excitment i would read as say padain fain.

I find him, logain and elyas as more interesting characters than the rest. Sure they may not have the same air time as rand al thor but it does not matter to me really

I just think that if you hate a character that bad you need help. Go out in the real world and find some real people to hate, trust me there are plenty. Like for example I hate Anne Coulter, Bill O' Riley, and Tom Cruise.

 

ever heard of the term hyperbole?

 

So are you saying that you really don't hate Rand, that you are just using intentional exaggeration, to cause an argument?

i don't hate rand as in pure unbridled hatred since he's just a fantasy character. His character defintely sucks. I just used the word hate coz it was more eye catching :P ;)

I am not going to comment on why you should or should not hate Rand. That is a personal choice, and even though I think your reasons for doing so are stupid I won't argue with you. With that said I think you have to admit that Rand is an interesting character, and that makes the books interesting. He has his own inner problems to deal with and he feels that he has to use his friends. He realizes he should not but does not let that stop him.

 

I think that all of these factors cause him to be more interesting than many other characters. He is a person and therefore makes mistakes including some regarding his attitude towards others. In my opinion this is much better than a hero that is kind and never does anything that could cause his friends injury. Therefore I think that love him or hate him, Rand Al'Thor is a well done character. He is the reason that I am continually rereading this books and I would not be surprised if the same was true for you.

The only interesting characters left for me are padan fain, logain and elyas machera. I would love to see where these guys end up. Rand can burn in shayol ghul for all i care. Go and use your choedan kal and die already!

Viceman,

rand has no empathy or no compassion anymore. He uses his own friends as if they are doormats. He thinks anyone who dies for him is just collateral damage.

Ares,

your whole gist seems to be he's the dragon reborn and therefore he has carte blanche to act and do whatever he likes. Having rand as a saviour is like having a wolf guarding the sheep. 

I just think that if you hate a character that bad you need help. Go out in the real world and find some real people to hate, trust me there are plenty. Like for example I hate Anne Coulter, Bill O' Riley, and Tom Cruise.

ever heard of the term hyperbole?

 

 

hey Perrin hey Loial whats up let have some cookies and milk while we sit here bsing around, dont worry that the shadow is building up or we need to organize, don't worry that we will have trollocs streaming forth from every way gate into the heartlands , don't worry that the shadow is bad enough but i have these nobles that would kill me before TG just for some more power... nah have a chocolate chip one its good

 

a better response would be,

hey welcome back loial! I am so glad to see you. I missed you. you look tired. here have a rest. maidens bring something for the ogier. loail you look terrible. sit man. tell me what happened. ' story ends'

well thank the light you are okay. by the way Loial i need your help with something. but seeing as you look tired i would like to take you to a stedding to get refreshed. i will send an ashaman with you as protection. once you are refreshed and ready i will let you on the plans. 

hey perrin i need you too. you are one of my closest friends. i value your friendship and advice. i need you if i am to stand a chance. But first the ogier needs his strength. You too perrin. It looks like you have knackered yourlf from traveling all the way from emonds field

But no he needs to treat his friends as if they were merely objects. To be used and thrown away. Like i said such a friend deserves an axe to the head. I don't know about you guys but robert jordan has turned rand al thor to really messed up character. A character with no empathy or sense of compassion. I don't know why alot of people are so enamoured with this tool. Perhaps they like twisted anti heroes. Not me. If he dies at the last battle i say good riddance. One of the worst 'heroes' saviours or whatever you like to call them ever seen in a fantasy book.

Okay i must calm down. This is fictitious character we are talking about :P

So let me get this straight. You guys think the ends justify the means?

 

Lets see ... save the world but be reviled as one of the biggest jerks the world has ever known, or let the world burn, and let everyone you've buried your feelings for suffer for your incompetance ...

 

I'm gonna have to go out on a limb and say the whole 'saving the world' path is the better one.

 

Wanting the supreme evil being to win just because you don't like the hero is just childish.  You're offered the choice between an icecream cone and a kick in the groin, and you take the kick because the cone doesn't have sprinkles.

that kind of a person is not a saviour. he's a weakling with a pathetic character. So people hate and despise you. Perhaps you should try and set a good example and change people's opinions of you. Just like how egwene seems to be doing in the tower.

Oh by the way perrin, and the ogier are some of his closest friends and yet to rand they are nothing but pieces of meat. rand is no saviour. At least to me. He can't even mourn for moraine without forcing himself to do so. what a wuss!

Well, to a man you certainly are ;D

 

I also find it funny that you cream yourself over Hawkwing, when he was an irrational ass who thought Aes Sedai are the devil incarnate (say what you want about Ishamael, but only if you concede Rand is under mitigating pressure - you can't have it both ways), as well as "an unpleasant person", according to Mat's memories - and you know those are true.

 

Seriously, you're in love with an ideal. I think you should get over yourself.

hawking was awesome. say what you want but he's 10 times the leader rand al thor will ever be. So what if he hated aes sedai. he was manipulated by ishy. artur could not channel and ishy was the dark one's general. cant blame him for that.

rand al thor acts like total unfeeling tool and he does not have the excuse of someone manipulating him

So let me get this straight. You guys think the ends justify the means? Oh i am rand al thor. The saviour of the world. You better do as i say or i will blow your brains out. Oh i do this to protect the world you live in. Damn.

I would not even have a problem with rand roughshodding over dumb ass people like weiramon for example. But rand al thor has passed a zone which frankly turns him to a total unfeeling tool.

For example. loial the ogier was on of his closest friends. You see their friendship in book 2. Go to LOC. He treats his own friend like a piece of meat. Props to perrin for standing up to the fool who was using his friend like that. There is no excuse for that. Treating friends like that. Then you go to knife of dreams he cant even find even the slightest bit of happiness for the ogier's marriage.

Again book 5 moiraine's death. He had to force himself to mourn her death. Struck me as pitiful and fake. That after the whole hilarious BS about not killing lanfear because she was a woman. So it's not just nobles he treats like shit but his own companions too. Strikes me as completely pathetic. If he's the sort of person who was instructed to save the world then i will gladly welcome the great lord of the dark taking over.

It's says smething when you can't even warm to the book's central character. Hell i like padan fain more than al thor now. At least there's abit of consistency with fain.

ares,

you made a lot of good points but i still don't agree with many of stuff rand does. i think it's better to lead people with courage, fairness, and good ideals rather than scaring people to submission or roughshodding them.

rand is just too much. The way he uses his friends especially perrin has just made me dislike him so much. Honestly rand al thor might be the first character who is central to a story whom i despise so much. I just can't warm to him anymore. It's quite a fall from book 1,2,3 and 4. At this point i would feel no remorse, no sadness if he gets destroyed at tarmon gaiden. Fat chance of that happening though.

durinax,

can you blame arthur hawking for being ishy's puppet. the guy was a forsaken. the most powerful of them all. Only LTT is closer to him in power. Artur hawking was an awesome leader. Rand will never be as good as him.

I used to be a fan of perrin. Until he turned out to be dumber than a sack of potatoes. He has been pussified by faile. Lost alot of man cred. what a wuss

I kinda liked lan as well until his malkieri BS flew out the window the moment nynaeve cast her eyes on him. I don't have any fan faves anymore although i kinda like elyas machera.

What's with everyone starting out so nice and ending up as trash?

The only one who gets better and better is padan fain. I wish padan fain was a forsaken. Man it would have been over a long time ago. The DO would have been ruling WOT by now.

Rand is the classic reluctant hero. His transformation from farm boy to world leader is astoundingly brought out by Jordan. It's what makes the books, the books IMO. That sense of having no other choice, and to die for it in the end. Which most people will cheer, instead of weep. He doesn't want to die. But knows the end is inevitable (as far as we know) He has gone too far. Min acknowleges that he feels no fear; and when he lost his hand, it was time to go on.  Sorelia's question about being strong or hard is very prevalent. That metaphore is spoken more after that.  It is this fear, this dread, which Rand must deal with; it is as Lan taught him, "duty is heavier than a mountain, death lighter than a feather". This part of the story, is the story, along with Perrin and Matt. Jordan had a wonderful way to present Rands story. It got lost IMO. But that is another discussion.

 

I also hate Rand as he is now. I like to think of Rand as the innocent young boy he was, as they all were. And which is the comparison which we judge Rand, and the others, fair or not.

he needs to be bitchslapped and hard by the way. Trouble is i don't know who will give him the thrashing he deserves.  I am already dreading reading his chapters in TGS.

This fool is acting too high and mighty...

 

My ideal scenario is Rand is off as usual doing his thing of acting like Big Boss. 

 

 

What do you expect him to do he's the dragon reborn. The world's fate rests on his shoulders. He didn't want this. All he wanted was to be a simple shepherd yet he is thrust into leadership and power unwillingly. Look at all the shit he has to go through

 

Besides your probably just jealous that he has 3 wives :P (hey who wouldn't be jealous)

well i can marry 4 if i want too :P 8)

just because he is supposed to be this mythical saviour does not give him the right to roughshed over everyone. He needs to brought down a level or two. Semirhage should have aimed that fireball a little to the left

This fool is acting too high and mighty for his own good. He needs to be taken down a couple of notches.

 

My ideal scenario is Rand is off as usual doing his thing of acting like Big Boss.  Suddenly he meets demnadred face to face. Rand says i defeated so many forsaken. I am going to take you out too. He disregards his backup who are by the way just around the corner. A big battle ensues. rand realises demandred is a whole different ball game. Rand is in the end stilled. Demandred is going to adminster the killing blow. Rand is saved just in the nick of time by logain and his followers. demandred escapes.

 

 

Rand is dazed. He has been taught a lesson. His ego is crushed. He knows he's Demandred's bitch from now on. slowly he cries back to nynaeve and asks her to restore him fully. Nynaeve does so. Not before laughing at rand and telling him to start acting wisely.

 

The end  :P

 

 

 

How do you think you would act in his postion? And yes, I realize what I'm unleashing by asking that question. :)

well for starters, i would not think of using my friends as he does everytime he sees perrin. it always pissess me of seeing him doing that kind of crap. if i were perrin i would bury that axe in rand al thor's head and split his aiel face for good.

i would be like artur hawking. fair and noble.  i would be a cool dragon reborn. who rallies people by convinction, strength and leadership rather than frightening people to death.

and when i die they would glorify me. as it is i hope everyone curses out rand's name when he dies after tarmon gaiden.

cant believe i once liked this animal. belal should finished this clown and the dark one take his soul

This fool is acting too high and mighty for his own good. He needs to be taken down a couple of notches.

My ideal scenario is Rand is off as usual doing his thing of acting like Big Boss.  Suddenly he meets demnadred face to face. Rand says i defeated so many forsaken. I am going to take you out too. He disregards his backup who are by the way just around the corner. A big battle ensues. rand realises demandred is a whole different ball game. Rand is in the end stilled. Demandred is going to adminster the killing blow. Rand is saved just in the nick of time by logain and his followers. demandred escapes.

Rand is dazed. He has been taught a lesson. His ego is crushed. He knows he's Demandred's bitch from now on. slowly he cries back to nynaeve and asks her to restore him fully. Nynaeve does so. Not before laughing at rand and telling him to start acting wisely.

The end  :P