There was only one general from the war of power in the last battle.

There were multiple generals. LTT was just the commander-in-chief.

Ok regarding Andor's 200,000 man army- it would take months for them to get that many men together, trained and equipped. Not to mention you couldn't hide that many men. wouldn't be much of an issue to simply take the Aiel and rout

what army was already standing, and harry any attempt to form another army. These Andormen don't seem to take t he Aiel too seriously, similarly neither did the Tairens. They learned better though.

 

That is certainly correct. The Andorans had zero chance of removing the Dragon's forces. Even if they could unite, which there is no reason to believe that they would. People seem to forget that half the population of Caemlyn was ready to accept a king in Morgase's place.

Refresh my memory...when was that stated?

In the only precedent we have in regards to Tarmon Gai'din, the Dragon (LTT) could not do it by himself.

 

For example, in the case of the champion of the light, when the he/she turns to the Shadow, the Dragon did not win. He merely "drew" according to RJ. Meaning the Dragon cannot win only by himself.

 

The Last Battle has already started...that's why Trollocs seem to come from everywhere.

So is Rand going to destroy those hordes of Shadowspawn by himself? As well as fight the remaining Forsaken?

 

Did Lews Therin Telamon "win" the War of Power by himself? He wasn't even able to seal the Dark One's prison by himself.

 

Rand is not the Creator. He is not a god. He is needed to win but he also needs others to win. To think anything else is illogical.

1. She knows that Traveling is a possibility, and therefore a danger;

2. She SHOULD know that the Seanchan have taken women who know the traveling weave prisoner. If she doesn't, THAT is Egwene's fault;

3. She knows about Raken and To'Raken;

4. We don't actually know if she knows about the Waygate or not. She might very well.

5. Her borders are with countries not overrun by the Seanchan of the Shadow, which ought to strongly suggest that she show a little more imagination;

6. She has said herself that Caemlyn IS Andor. Border raids are not the danger;

7. All of these points notwithstanding, going might be a risk she had to take, IF there were a compelling reason to do so. There is not.

8. "Wah, wah, others do it too!" is not a defense. Yes, many other leaders have been negligent. Not the Borderlanders; they knew the cost but had that compelling reason that Elayne does not. But Tear and Illian, certainly.

Traveling might be a danger, but how can she guard against it? The Seanchan could potentially attack any part of her country and she can't spread her troops out everywhere - they'd be too thin on the ground to do any good. Gateways allow her to respond rapidly, but she can use them from Merrilor as easily as Caemlyn. She knows about Raken and To'raken, but so what? We have no reason to believe the Waygate is unguarded. Her northern border is with the Caralain Grass, a big, empty region. If the Borderlands fell, the Shadow would have a clear run to Andor. Caemlyn is not Andor - her storyline shows the lie in that old saying. And also, if someone attacks, you generally want to stop them before they get to the important places, like your capital city. There is no benefit to her staying put in Caemlyn. She would be able to do her normal, day to day duties, but would be absent from a summit to decide a course of action at TG. The latter is decidedly more important.

QFT

 

Kinda stupid trying to bring armies to intimidate the Dragon when a large portion of the armies you are bringing are sworn to the Dragon himself?..It really makes no sense.

So what message do you think is given out by having Rand's own armies there to oppose him? When even your allies and bannermen consider your plans foolish and reckless? Who would still proceed under those circumstances?

 

 

And if he disregards her as he intends to...what can she do?

 

The Steward of Illian and Tear are a lot more scared of the Dragon than the Amyrlin. She knows that, she also knows if push comes to shove the Aiel will support Rand. He is their own blood and their chief, their ties are a lot more than hers to the Aiel. So basically all she is counting on is the support of Rand's lover...er..How stupid of a plan is this?

Rand's reasoning for the Field of Merrilor is to force the nations of the Westlands to agree to the Dragon Peace. However, if he does not have a plan to follow after he would break the seals, no nation would follow him. Darlin's letter alone shows that. The Aiel are not slaves, they have minds of their own and if pushed to a certain place they would leave Rand. Just look at the council of war in tGS. As Nynaeve concludes, without the Aiel, Rand cannot outright force any nation to do his bidding as he did with Tear, Cairhien, and Andor.

 

At the moment people are holding Rand responsible for everything and anything bad that happens no matter how ridiculous it is to blame him, so it doesn't really matter what countries he's officialy in charge of.

Does the same not go for Egwene? Just look at the nature of this and most threads these days,

The Tower does not have nearly enough soldiers to help with the Borderlands. At the Field of Merrilor, Egwene can both try to change Rand's mind as well as organize the defense.

The Tower constantly boast about it's power and how it can make monarchs jump when they say frog, yet you are trying to tell me that they aren't able to organize sending armies or at least sisters to the borderlands to aid the defends? No, it seems rather obvious she intends to use the armies to "force" Rand in the case he wont dance on her leash, she even thinks about replacing Darlin because he wont move his entire army there in fear of the Seanchan.

 

Now, my question is, how on earth does she hope to achieve that goal? intimidating Rand and/or "force" him with armies that are for all practical purpose sworn to him?

The White Tower has less than 100,000 soldiers. It is impossible for them to defend the entire Blightborder when the separate invasion forces of the Shadow have more than their combined army.

 

When did Egwene think about replacing Darlin? If I recall correctly, she merely wanted him to bring the majority of his forces. I might be wrong though

 

Rand did not destroy the Waygate nor did he use the weave he did on the Waygate at Shadar Logoth. As simple as that. Of course she would. She can't be seen as accepting the throne from Rand as that would do away with her legitimacy but that's another argument.

 

I'm not saying she should've accepted his help, I agree with her decision there, I'm just merely pointing out that he had put guards at them, and I doubt they were ever replaced after she came into power. Rand can hardly be at fault there really, last he was in control of the city the Waygate was as safe as he could make it. Putting on the ward would really serve no purpose in Caemlyn, as it would still give the Trollocs plenty of time to slaughter the citizens, and he didn't have any means to destroy the Waygate until long after Elayne took control of the city. So guards was by far the best solution, she just didn't replace those.

But what we can understand, she had no idea about the Waygate. Rand did have several means of destroying the Waygate as well as using the weave that kills all Shadowspawn that pass through it. Elayne attempting to win her throne separate of Rand has nothing to do with it.

 

No, Elayne has no one but herself to blame. She has advance notice of an invasion of Shadowspawn, knows for certain that the Seanchan are coming and can strike anywhere, and her only response is to "beef up" her border defenses, with what can at most be a few tens of thousands of troops, spread around the border of the largest kingdom in Randland. To leave her country, taking with her so much as a single soldier, is almost criminally negligent.

 

And I say this as not exactly the biggest Egwene fan out there. Not Egwene's fault, Elayne's.

How is it her fault? She does not know the Seanchan know Traveling nor does she know about the Waygate. She was informed there would be an invasion so she did what was needed. When one hears hoofbeats, one thinks of horses not zebras just like Elayne focused on securing her borders. According to your logic every single ruler at the FoM is criminally negligent. The Borderlanders most of all it seems. Doesn't make sense to me.

Why wait until AFTER the meeting with sending support to the Borderlands? No, she clearly wants to use them to intimidate Rand, which truly baffles me. She mentions him forcing her hand, does she intent to use force against Rand and his followers? Fighting among each other when TG for all practicality have already begun and the Borderlands being overrun are just idiocy.

The Tower does not have nearly enough soldiers to help with the Borderlands. At the Field of Merrilor, Egwene can both try to change Rand's mind as well as organize the defense.

 

And how can you put Rand at fault for the invasion? He put guards on the Waygate when he was in control of Caemlyn, but Elayne was rather quick at throwing out anything related to Rand as soon as she entered the city. Which I suppose includes the guards at the Waygate and I doubt she replaced those.

Rand did not destroy the Waygate nor did he use the weave he did on the Waygate at Shadar Logoth. As simple as that. Of course she would. She can't be seen as accepting the throne from Rand as that would do away with her legitimacy but that's another argument.

I believe the reasoning behind bringing the rulers armies is to quickly address the situation in the Blight once the talks with Rand have concluded.

 

Egwene is not at blame. Neither is Elayne. Possibly Rand might be at fault. Elayne did know Andor would be invaded so she beefed up the borders. She could not know the Shadow would come through the waygate.

There's a whole religion based on Robert Jordan's Wheel of Time in Asia.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Is that so?

There are several references in the Dragon Age games.

 

Also, in George R. R. Martin's series, A Song of Ice and Fire, one of the noble houses in Dorne is House Jordayne. The name of the lord is Trebor which is Robert backwards. He rules over the Tor. Tor is the publisher for the Wheel of Time. Finally, House Jordayne's motto is "Let it be written."

 

It's basically a homage as both Martin and Jordan were good friends and Jordan's endorsement of Martin's series was very beneficial.

Ummmmmmm almost nothing the Aes Sedai do is right.   They think that without the tower the world would fall.. guess what the white tower didnt exist in the Age of Legends, and it was 100000000 times better then the third age. 

There was also no war at all. If it weren't for the Aes Sedai, humanity wouldn't have survived the Breaking, if it weren't for hte WHite Tower humanity wouldn't hve survived the Trolloc Wars or the War of a Hundred Years.

 

And no, I'm niot mistaken.  In the age of Legends, the Aes Sedai were led by a type of Channeling guild called the Hall of Servants, which was led by the "First Among Servants" aka The Dragon.

Yes. What's your point? The Hall of Servants worked much of the same way as the White Tower. Lews Therin was the High Seat, basically the same thing as the Amyrlin.

 

Half of the tower seem to believe that they should gentle the Dragon reborn and leave the world defenseless when the DO breaks free.

Look at it this way. Every time a person declared themselves as the Dragon Reborn, they try to conquer the Westland and leave death, destruction and disorder in their waake. They are called False Dragons. When Rand declared himself, two other False Dragons were abroad: Logain and Taim. What else would be the Twoer's reaction but to gentle them all?

 

Once Rand fulfilled the prophecies and it was clear he was the true Dragon Reborn, everyone knew he must live to fight the Dark One. No one of the Light doubted that. It was just their methods that were on the somewhat foolish side.

 

Also, they seem to think that keeping their little tower intact is more important then anything else.

Seeing how the White Tower is the only institution that has had any sense of constancy and it has kept the Westlands together (look above).

 

I'll admit that a lot of Aes Sedai are good people, but most, Like Elaida, care only for getting as much power and credit they can during the Last battle.

That goes the same for everyone. People like that are in the nobles, asha'man, Seanchan, Whitecloaks, etc.

 

Look at how they view the Ashaman.  Even after they realize that the taint was destroyed, they looked down on them and treat them like animals instead of people.

Not that many people are aware of that fact and to those who hear it, it's the equivalent of a rattlesnake telling you that it's venom-free.

 

I also hate how they beleive that their way of teaching is the only legitimant way of learning to channel.

You're mistaken. It is a widely believed thought that you can't relearn a way to do something once you've done it another.

 

Guess what, the Aiel were around since before the breaking, though known by another name and hated war >>;, You can't tell me that since that time they didn't have channelers.  So, since they have had channelers before the the breaking and the white tower was not created til after, how is the white tower better at teaching the then them?   Hell, Aes Sedai are a step away from declairing that using the one power without their permission is punishable by death.

We don't know if the Aiel could channel in the Age of Legends. Also, the Aes Sedai are definitely better channelers than the Wise Women who only channel rarely. You can see that from tSR and tFoH. Your last sentence is illogical.

 

I Find it funny, how the Aes Sedfai are proven wrong about the one power every 10 seconds.   "YOu can't heal severing", "You cant unravel a weave", There is no way to detect when the oposit gender channels".   Face it, Aes Sedai claim that anything they cant do is impossible and tells people they are not allowed to do it.

Look at it this way, if someone told me 110 years ago that we'd be able to fly, you'd think it was impossible. If someone said there'd be vehicles that could transport you into outer space, you'd say it's impossible. Most things re thought to be impossible until innovation and invention happen.

 

Hell, just one of the lost talents, like Traveling, makes the Ashaman twice as powerful as the white tower.

Look at Jordan's comments about male and female strength in the power.

As previously stated, the Broken Crown is indeed the monarch of Saldea's crown.

 

Perhaps, the name is referring to the physical attribute of the crown or it may be a possible reference to something else in Saldea's history. After all, the crown of the king of Illian was called the Laurel Crown before Rand became king. Now it is the Crown of Swords.

 

Min had a viewing about Davram Bashere. Something to the effect of "I see something dark around him. If he dies or turns against you..." However, the latter seems unlikely as Bashere is one of Rand's most trusted advisers and he is obviously not a Darkfriend as his wife was nearly killed because he had hidden a seal to the  Dark One's prison.

 

The remaining conclusion is that Tenobia dies and Davram dies also, or Tenobia and Davram both abdicate (or any variation of the two) and Faile becomes ruler of Saldea. In the event of that happening, Faile would be ruler of Saldea and Perrin would be her consort.

 

And yes, it seems the eldest child inherits as Tenobia's father ruled before her and Faile tells Perrin about her past and why she ran away in TSR (her two older brothers died, leaving her to assume the dutie of learning how estates are run, etc)

Bosh, Muad, that all could have been done with Mat and the Windfinders, not to mention that Bael and Bashere could have ended the civil war with nary a drop of blood.

 

All she needed to do back then was ask the father of her children for a loan, and *wham* Caemlyn City's back in the standings. Hell, maybe even a real starter, because I'm sure Rand I-can't-touch-a-bloody-woman Al'Thor would have even waived the transfer fee.

 

That could have taken Caemlyn City way back up in the league tables; maybe not up to the level of AS Tar Valon or Rhuidean SV.

 

But certainly better than the bloody mess they are right now!

 

Except if anyone who is an outlander or is openly allied with the Dragon Reborn helping Elayne gain the throne would cause more problems than it would "solve."

 

It's been said before that any outside help would cost her the throne and her supporters causing the civil war to grow even more chaotic. that is the reason why she took down Rand's banners and told Bashere and Bael not to interfere.

Ok, I really can't let this stand.

 

We've all been reading the same material, folks, in some cases for years. We've seen it all play out.

 

And I cannot think anything other than Elayne's been running that side into the ground since she got to Caemlyn.

 

So what, you'll say, she's got one of the best managers in the sport! And I'll scoff at that, I don't think Ms. Trahelion has done anything worthy of the name yet.

 

Face it, every time her boys get suited up to go out on the pitch, they know they're going to get massacred. Best hope she's got is that her boy toy the Dragon Reborn will give her a loan or nine; maybe not from FC Al'Thor, but the man's got other teams, like Black Tower, to transfer some players to her. Light knows she'll need it, if Caemlyn City's going to have a chance in hell of finishing in the top half of the league table, mates.

 

So she had no part in curing the weather nor winning the civil war that Rand actually started?

Taim is the only one who had threatened the Aes Sedai in Caemylyn.Fain would have no reason to attack  the Aes Sedai.

 

As for the atack on Mat, it most likely wsa Sammael because he is the only non-Rand allied channeler and Forsaken to have contact with the Shaido. He is also one of the few who knew Mat's location.

 

However, one problem with that. Why would the Aiel attack Mat? It makes no sense for them to be separated by "Caddar" and from Sevanna to only obey the commands of Caddar. (Incidentally, they could be the people who murdered the Tinkers)

I think Perrin will rule the region either as the sole ruler (with Faile) or under Elayne and Andor.

 

At the end of KoD, 100,000 displaced refugees were under the leadership and they could be the basis of a new nation.

I've always thought it was Sammael that sent the Aiel but it's only because he's the only Forsaken known to deal with the Shaido. It couldn't be Taim because he's never met Mat. Who knows?

 

As for the "Aiel" who attacked Demira Eriff in Caemlyn, they were most definitely sent by Taim. It was the only way he could strike at the Aes Sedai in the city without Rand knowing.

 

They are not really "Aiel" because they were described as being "a squat fellow with villainous eyes." Aiel are tall and lean. They are also said to have "mocking black eyes", and no Aiel has black eyes.

 

The message "Tell the other witches to stay away from the Dragon Reborn" is another sign they are not Aiel as the Aiel do not see Rand as the Dragon Reborn, only the Car'a'carn nor call Aes Sedai "witches.".

 

It was basically done to foment discord between Rand and the Salidar Aes Sedai.

Ares, your whole argument hinges on Rand not being able to get forkroot.  Think about where and when it was first discovered.  Any village wisdom will probably be able to get some.  It would take Rand time, but Perrin spent 51 days pursuing Faile.  Are you seriously going to tell me that if he went to Rand right away the Dragon couldn't have put together a plan to get forkroot faster than that?  Please.  I'm sure he could have had it much more quickly.

 

The Seanchan were the only ones who had enough forkroot tea to subdue the Wise Ones. Sure forkroot might be common but how long would it take to gather enough to take the Wise Ones?

 

Even if he had to raid the Seanchan he could have done so easily.  Its hard to stop lots of Asha'man pouring through gateways at 2am when you aren't expecting any sort of attack and haven't heard of any hostile force within hundreds of miles.

 

So killing civilians (which is what the people in the manufactory were) is a better alternative for bargaining with them with absolutely no cost of life?

 

You continuously overlook Perrin making a deal with Rand's enemy like its trivial.  Perrin could and should have worked to find Rand.

 

Ever heard of the enemy of my enemy is my friend? Rand is trying to make a truce with them so what is your problem. Both wanted to stop fighting with the Seanchan and fight against a larger enemy. What's the difference? Perrin did not know where Rand was.

 

As far as locating Rand RJ was the author.  It would have been up to him whether Perrin found Rand, but the mechanism for doing so is there regardless of how you try to pretend its not.  Perrin could have had one of his Asha'man drop off messages at every court Rand is known to visit, and he could have used the visions to try to find him. 

 

So you want the author to defy logic to fulfill what you think "makes sense?" How about the three ta'avern flight to the summit of Dragonmount and hold a conference? Jordan follows logical progression. It goes against Rand and Perrin's plan. Perrin was supposed to secure the southwest while avoiding attention from everyone especially the Shadow. If he "dropped messages" at every court, it would soon become widespread.

 

If Rand could obtain forkroot how is Perrin working with the Seanchan better again?  Its not.  Perrin could have and should have gone to Rand and he didn't.  It was a bad mistake that led to a three book story arc with Perrin isolated from the rest of the characters we cared about.  This was only made worse by the fact that it didn't need to happen and the reader knows it.

 

He did not know where Rand was. Rand and his plan meant for them to limit contact with each other and for Perrin to be incognito. How long would it take to gather enough forkroot to stop the Wise Ones. Perrin had wagonloads and it didn't even incapacitate ll of the Wise Ones.

 

Okay. we'll play it your way. Say Perrin wanted to find Rand at the same time as the cleansing...Chances are he'd be a dead man.

 

This shows how little you understand their culture.  Becoming damane means you are a slave with no free will.  Both dat'sang and Gai'shain are cultural concepts for the Aiel.  Both brings a measure of dishonor, but the Aiel do not hold with slavery.

 

Aiel are da'acovale. That is essentially as much slavery as being a damane, so if there have already been Aiel who are da'acovale, I doubt they wouldn't fight against being damane.

 

Wise ones are sacred and the idea of making them mindless slaves would be horrifying to all Aiel, not just the Shaido.  Even though we haven't seen them for several books the bulk of Rand's army are still Aiel.  How are they going to feel about the Shaido wise ones being made slaves?  Not well I can assure you.

 

The Wise Ones with Perrin did not approve of it, can't blame them, but they view the the Shaido as no longer being Aiel (like every other non-Shaido Wise One) and were willing to let them be damane. I'm pretty sure every other Wise One would agree.

 

Remember the part where I said over and over that it didn't matter if Perrin succeeded, the attempt was the important part?  The right thing for Perrin to do was find Rand.  He didn't even try.  If he had who knows what would have happened?

 

What is the point of trying when it would 1). Definitely not work. 2). Tire out the Asha'man when they could be better used to scout. 3). Ruin the plan he and Rand invested so much into. 4). Let the entire world (and the Shadow) know where he was. 5). Potentially end in Perrin's death.

 

One thing you are overlooking is that Perrin is a Ta'veren.  He draws what he needs to him.  That could have made it possible for him to find Rand, even if the visions failed and Rand didn't get any of the messages Perrin could have left from Caemlyn to Tear to Illian to Caihrehien

 

And he did draw what he needed to him. The Seanchan. Ta'avern is not some Deus Ex Machina that gives the person whatever he wants when he wants.

So it is very understandable when he "obsessed" with his wife's safety.

Understandable does not necessarily equal enjoyable or interesting to read.

 

Yeah. You're right. However, the "debate" is because people say they dislike Perrin because of his "obsession."

he was well obbsessed before his family passed away.

 

Refresh my memory. Perrin met Faile in TDR, the book before TSR (where he found out his parents died). So his "obsession" had to have manifested between the 33rd chapter of TDR and chapter 29 of TSR.

 

As I recall, at first Perrin wanted nothing to do with Faile and was wary of her and in TSR he tried to send her away and then became estranged from her, so...Unless, you are referencing the ending of TDR where he goes into the Wolf Dream to rescue Faile, which is not what I'd call an "obsession" more like a heroic act, your previous statement has no basis.

 

Once again, not a good reason to dislike Perrin.

The problem I have with Perrin is how obsessed he his with his wife.

 

His thought process....

 

Faile, need to eat, Faile, Faile, need to tie my shoe, Faile, need to rescue Rand from the evil Aes Sedai, Faile, Faile, Faile.

 

He doesn't do anything without first thinking what she thinks.  I used to dislike her, not so much now, because of it.

 

Well, you have to realize that Faile is the only family he has left. He's an orphan as he found out that his entire family was murdered in TSR. So it is very understandable when he "obsessed" with his wife's safety. Not only does he love her dearly, she's also the only person he trusts and the last part of his family. That's why it's believable when he worries about if she's okay when Colavere becomes queen and when she was kidnapped by the Shaido. Losing almost everything you hold dear makes you not want to lose anything more.

 

That's not really a good reason not to like Perrin though.

I've been monitoring this topic but it seems to be repeating itself. Sheikh Chilli will make a rant against Rand using different "reasons." Someone will shoot them down. Then later, Sheikh will spout the same "reasons" (or sometimes he'll bring out new ones) and they'll be refuted.

 

You don't have to like Rand but you hating him for reasons that are clearly illogical makes no sense.

Perrin is definitely my favorite with Mat a close second behind. Rand's a pretty good character also though.

 

Perrin is a man of duty (no toilet jokes please) and Mat is a man of his word. Both admirable qualities.

 

Personally, I think Perrin is the most dangerous of the three in battle (sans the One Power). The battles he's in (and leads) are amazing.

 

I actually like his relationship with Faile. She's there for him and he tries to do the same. The scene where he finds out he's an orphan and she helps him cope with it is awesome.

 

Call me weird but in terms of personality I put Mat at the far right because he's the most "merry," Perrin in the middle because he's solid but some times slips into the dark side and Rand at the far, far left because he's.....Well, you know how he is.

Cadsuane is an enigma to Rand. Every Aes Sedai or rather woman who can channel has an agenda. Rand's skilled enough to deduce what all their motives are. However, with Cadsuane he knows nothing about her. She's not affiliated with the White Tower or Salidar and she doesn't attempt to bribe him or bully him, just provoke him. She also isn't impressed with the Asha'man channeling which is unique because almost every Aes Sedai has a negative reaction.

 

As for Morgase, she's a very important side character. You must remember, most of the world and some of the more important players and rulers believecRand killed her. Morgase showing up and allying with Rand would not only help his cause but clear his name. Also, Perrin having a former queen as his servant is interesting along with the fact that Perrin is heading towards Galad and the Whitecloaks. If Morgase wasn't there, it might be more bloody.

 

And as for Rand...In the fight against Toram he was essentially playing with him. The only reason he lost was because Rand reacted to the fog that started killing people. That was a pretty great scene. I was actually glad Cadsuane slapped Rand. Balefire is too dangerous to be used. There's a reason both the Light and the Shadow made an unspoken truce not to use it in the AoL. The scene where Fain attacks him and the one where the soldiers carry him inside was awesome and well-written. Also, Rand did some pretty amazing things in the book: conquered Illian, killed Sammael etc.

 

aCoS is in my top 7 WoT books. I like the books from TSR and on more than I liked the previous ones but it was the first ones that got me hooked.

I used to be a fan of perrin. Until he turned out to be dumber than a sack of potatoes. He has been pussified by faile. Lost alot of man cred. what a wuss

 

I kinda liked lan as well until his malkieri BS flew out the window the moment nynaeve cast her eyes on him. I don't have any fan faves anymore although i kinda like elyas machera.

 

What's with everyone starting out so nice and ending up as trash?

 

The only one who gets better and better is padan fain. I wish padan fain was a forsaken. Man it would have been over a long time ago. The DO would have been ruling WOT by now.

 

Yeah, well, being married kinda changes your perspectives on things. And FYI, Perrin is one of the smarter people in the WoT. For example, his plan to defeat the Shaido in Malden was genius. Even the Seanchan said so. People change. Death, hardship, marriage, children change people. If the characters did not change from the beginning, no one would like them. If Rand went through all that he's gone through and remained the innocent farmboy, no one would be a fan. Perrin has realized what's important in life (his wife) and the fact that he's drawn to battles yet he hates how the battlelust takes over him.

 

I will agree with you that Padan Fain is an awesome character. The fact that he's on no one's side but his own, adds to his badass-ness.