Isn't it hard to hate diphtongs when your language is absolutely riddled with it?! Almost every word (ok not really but a lot of them) uses the gliding of vowel sounds.

I recall something similar being asked in the past; the thread might have been culled or is too old.

 

If Rand/Mat/Perrin, the visions seem related to their taveren nature.

If Rand/Moridin, their seeing each other seems to have been caused by their colliding balefires.

 

I also have thought about these swirling colors. They all seem so dense when they refuse to see them for what they are: Randland MSN! And to close: The crossing of Balefire beams incident makes me laugh and remember what Dr Egon Spengler (GhostBusters) says about crossing the streams.. ;) It would be very very bad. Like the end of the Universe! :D

Most women in WoT are strong and willfull. They are also very often very disagreeable. I find them so and it feels that RJ wrote them so. All of them. Quick to anger and slow to forget. Just a whole bunch of "pain in the ass" really. I find myself skipping most parts of the story where the women dominate as I re-read it (over and over it seems). Nyneave is a stinker, Egwene too and Elayne... Perhaps only Birgitte is at least tolerable but then she is written in a more maly way.. ;)

I dislike Aes Sedai and most women in WoT.

List of Loathing:

1. Aes Sedai (inlcudes Nyneave and the rest)

2. Faile (Fail!)

3. Wise Ones

4. ...

The female Forsaken are more balanced. ;)

Yes, I think they want to leave. For the reasons I mentioned. I think it might have been mentioned in the books also. Not that it matters much, anymore. They can Heal them now. I don't think we'll get the answers in AMoL. And none of us can prove anything about survival rates. That's the situation in a nutshell. I don't think the majority of AS are evil. Some are, of course...

The White Tower - an institution of power that has turned on itself. To many webs woven by too many different Aes Sedai and too many secrets within secrets have made the Tower and the women who reside in it introvert and dangerous. I sort of see a rotten apple, one where the shell still looks nice and ripe but when you slice it open the rotten meat shows itself.

The severed women cannot abide staying in the tower because they cannot any longer participate in the myriad of plots and secrets that are what makes the Tower Stand (which, ironically, also is the same reason the Tower gets split IMO). That and the cold shoulder they get from the "not-severed." ;)

Oh well. I'm heading back to the rereading of TEotW. I just love the part where Rand and Tam escapes the attack on their farm. Masterfully written! Full of feeling and intense moments. Great!

So, the White Tower and the Aes Sedai arent stupid, just arrogant and ignorant. In some places those two are synonyms to stupidity. ;)

The Power itself turns the heads of those who wield it. That sets them apart. Being part of a time honored institution explains a bit. The infighting between factions within the Tower creates stupid people. One faction denies that there is a Black Ajah and another denies the fact that there is a people called Seanchan - a people who uses Aes Sedai as pets and weapons. Just like some people in real life dedies the holocaust during ww2 and so on. That does hit some people as being stupid.

Sometimes I think RJ made some Aes Sedai stupid just to get his story to where it needed to go. For instance, in KoD when Elayne decides to arrest the Black Ajah sisters. That idea was very not smart and carried through by one of the smarter Aes Sedai in Randland. It was intentionally stupid. It had to happen to get Elayne into a position (outside the city gates with a considerably large force) where she could attack the hostile forces from behind to capture those in need of capturing and thus winning the race for the Lion Throne. The stupidity in this case could be explained by Elayne's pregnancy but I don't buy it. ;)

So, sometimes I believe that stupid is what stupid does. Sometimes because the stupid is stupid as part of the story or because the story needs a normally smart person to act stupid in order for the story to move forward. ;)

I read some more in my copy of Crossroads of Twilight last night and happened upon a sentence that explains it all. RJ stated that the Aes Sedai community/group/institution is as flawed as any other such groups etc when it comes to stupidity and so on. A way to smooth it over perhaps. ;)

Anyway, interesting points are made in the thread. Keep it up!

Other than my above post regarding Aes Sedai leadership qualifications (only strength in wsilding hte power) I find their general stance in the world foolish. 

 

They think so highly of themselves, as if they are great servents in teh world and bring so much good, "guide" those ignorant fools for the benefit of humanity, fight the Shadow, yadda yadda.

 

But what I see is a group of people trying (and failing) at nothing more than perpetuation of a time and power long past.  They themselves know it's a farce, many oustide the tower know it as well, yet they do nothing but perpetuate.  They reasons to not try anything new or to create new, they cite their history of perpetuation as validation of their perpetuation.  It's asinine.  All those who do more (like Siuan and Moraine) find themselves outside the Tower and all those who have done more recently are oustide the Tower (Like Egwene, Elayne, Nynaeve, etc.)  Yet, even those like Siuanwho fight the Tower cannot cannot make the leap to understanding that the fault IS the Tower.

 

It's like Egwene's stance after beoming the Amyrlin.  She forsakes Rand and others on whom the fate of the entire world rides because the "Tower" is all that matters.  Very foolish indeed.

Yes, the fear of change is irritating but not uncommon in bodies of power, anywhere. And the Aes Sedai know what they want because they want what they know - The White Tower - Safety Blanket Muy Grande. Even if the safety of the White Tower is highly questionable.

Oh well. I am reading my way through Crossroads of Twilight now and am reading totally new pages (I failed finishing that book a couple of years back and stopped reading the series after that). I might have more to rant about after having finished CoT and the KoD.

It is nice though that the White Tower is "stupid" with arrow straight accuracy throughout the story. I would have been disappointed if RJ had allowed the Tower to be great in one part of the story and stupid the next. ;)

When a Aes Sedai bounds a man to be a warder..its right and natural for her, even if she does it against the mans will in most of the cases (and rest of the world exept the soldiers themselfs)

In most cases in the series present, Warders are bonded voluntarily, Rand being perhaps the sole exception. The women held by Logain didn't get a choice.

 

Mmm, sort of a 'when your older than everyone else, you tend to look at them as children' thing.

In my defence, I look on some of you as very smart children.

No, Logain bonded them! - by kissing?!

I do see the need for the Aes Sedai community to "be above" everyone else. They cannot function if nations/groups/individuals/... question their actions. Well crafted by RJ.

I guess threads like this one comes to life whenever someone (like me at the moment) has read too much of the story over a too short time span. It gets easier to see the ties and also the "errors" or what they should be called.

I would have thought that the White Tower knew that if you root out all the males able to channel it might actually lead to a decrease in girls born with the ability as well.

Mayhap the Aes Sedai believe in their supremacy too much and that is the reason to why they come across as "stupid" at times. They won't even consider that what they believe might be wrong and thus what they believe is right is and what they don't believe isn't.

Reading Luckers' post, it make me think...

 

Aes Sedai don't (or didn't) 'recruit' actively for a long time.  They waited for the girls to show up at their door steps wanting/hoping to learn.  Do you think this was a design of the Black Ajha?  Specifically, if only girls wanting power were showing up for training, that motivation could be manipulated to increase BA numbers and thus reduce non-BA numbers. 

Either that or maybe the arrogance that had crept up inside the White Tower stopped it from actively seeking out young women with the ability to learn. The Kin shows how stupid that paricular idea is. The are numerous, have strenght and function without using "White Tower methods." This is one part of "the Aes Sedai are in for a change"-part that I like. Egwene and the others will let everyone who can learn be part of the White Tower, no matter how old. That will boost the number of sisters quickly and perhaps (most likely) wear away some of the inbred arrogance that has set itself into the very walls of the Tower.

Interesting ideas to discuss. I'm not sure if it is Black Ajah strategy that led to the Tower losing its strenght in numbers but it is plausible, I guess. Any other thought on this idea?

What a spark we found under this "topic stone." Although I was a bit wary when the first replies came I am now happy to have started it. It is very interesting to read what others thinkabout certain aspects of the books, especially if you have spent the last 14 years reading them (on and off). Thoughts surface that can't be vented anywhere else! I'll read the more lengthy responses later and respond to them. Now I must return to my re-read of TPoD. Splendid yarn, it do be.

Edited for typo.

I was just thinking about this today, while listening to TSR Ch1, the Amyrlin says she wishes Rand had never heard any of the prophecies of the dragon and thus not gone after Callandor. I thought to myself, that Suian should think the same way as Moiriane (considering the Dragon has been in their plans for their entire sisterhood) that if Rand had not heard them the pattern would still find a way to make him attempt to retreave it at that time.

 

There are other examples but I can't think of any right now.

I agree! The Pattern would steer Rand toward the actions he has to take - Taveeren (sp) affect and change the pattern around them but are also more bound to the same than others, right? So, as you stated, Rand wouldn't have been able to avoid going for Callandor or for any of the other "mission objectives" having read the prophecies or not. But I guess some of these things are "errors" made by RJ, small things that avid readers pick up on. ;) Anyway, Siuan should have known.

I seem to have put my head into a hornets nest here. Beautiful. Now, before anything else goes KA-BOOM - Chill out. I asked a question and asked for opinions. I did not, intentionally, set out to offend and frankly I thought that a remote risk since the phenomenon I asked about was/is a fictious/made up one - characters in fiction.

"more than a hand-full" is hardly all of RJ's Aes Sedai characters. Some are very very bright (Moiraine, Siuan, Elayne, Egwene, Nynaeve and a lot of other Aes Sedai) but some are ignorant beyond comprehension. My thought was, as stated in the first post, that they shouldn't be due to all the tests and such. As for examples, I don't keep a reading journal so I can't give exact quotes but this comes to mind: Even as far in to the story as book 7 and 8 there are Aes Sedai who won't believe in Seanchan, Black Ajah, Forsaken on the loose etc. How is that possible? I know that it has to do with denial or arrogance/ignorance but the way I read it it comes across as stupidity.

Now, I've read some posts that answer mine (not attacking it) and I agree. Sometimes the ignorance moves beyond the borders of credibility. But that is the way the story goes and I had better like it or I had better leave it I guess.

Not trying to offend anyone but I have to ask this:

Aren't the Aes Sedai frearfully dense at times?  ??? I mean, all the way up to the Amyrlin Seat. How is that possible? The tests and such that they have to undergo before becoming Aes Sedai, both the trials as novices and as accepted AND the tests before being raised to the next level, must ensure that the women are not idiots, right? But, when I read the story I get the feeling that more than a handful of these full sisters are a bit behind on the Intelligence Train, a few cards short of a full deck. Why? How?

Any thoughts on the matter?