Yellow Ajah: 9
Gray Ajah: 5
Green Ajah: 5
Blue Ajah: 3
White Ajah: 2
Red Ajah: 2
Brown Ajah: 0

Picked Blue as the one I identify the most with.  Go figure.

 

Actually, it is much more likely that RJ planned Egwene's death.  Brandon's comment was only that most of the deaths were RJ, he had been able to decide a few.  We know for a fact that RJ wrote the epilogue (apart from Cadsuane's POV), and is this Rand refers to Cadsuane being cornered (which couldn't be the case if Egwene was going to be alive).

Brandon has also said that Cadsuane's becoming Amyrlin was specifically in RJ's notes, but he doesn't know how she'll deal with it, since she was apparently planning to remove the Oaths and retire into the Kin.

Is this what you're talking about?

Terez

There was some discussion about Brandon's suggestion that RJ wrote the entire epilogue, since we knew from his tweets while he was working on it that he had to modify the epilogue material, and we knew from Peter that Brandon wrote the Cadsuane scene (and possibly others; this has never been clarified). In the comments on this post on Facebook, Isabel asked some questions and got some answers from Peter. The last quote is from Dragonmount, in response to some fan assumptions about how much had been written by RJ.

Isabel (9 January 2013)

One question: regarding the Cadsuane scene. It is said that this was added by you. Is that correct? Was Cadsuane's fate in RJ's notes?

Peter Ahlstrom (9 January 2013)

Team Jordan said I could say that Brandon himself wrote the words of that little scene. Brandon is still being closedmouthed about what specifically came from the notes, but in general, Robert Jordan left quite a few notes on where people ended up at the end of the book.

Isabel

Am I right to assume that her implied fate wouldn't have been put in, if the notes say something different? (assuming there were notes on it)

Peter Ahlstrom

The notes about fates at the end were not contradicted.

Peter Ahlstrom

What Brandon was given from RJ specifically on the last three books was 200 manuscript pages containing some finished scenes (including the final scene) and some summaries of other scenes, some lines of dialogue here and there, some "I might do this, or I might do this," etc. It's definitely not the last 120 pages of the book.

I couldn't find anything else on Cadsuane in the epilogue, but I'm hardly an expert as to all the random interviews, chats, whatevers.

I was extremely surprised at her death.  The circumstances were fitting for a character as strong as hers, but I felt like her character had been left open for more development.   She still appeared to fluctuate between great leader and stubborn stupid (though perhaps that was poor characterization in the last 3 books).  I also felt like there are a lot of important issues to face Aes Sedai in the upcoming future -- e.g. regarding the Seanchan and regarding the issues that Nynaeve brought up in her testing -- and that it seemed only natural that Egwene be the one to lead them through that.

Brandon Sanderson leaving it open for debate is very suggestive.  Then again, that would also imply that he chose to kill both Gawyn and Egwene, because I cannot imagine one surviving without the other.  And Gawyn's death felt pretty natural and planned.  Probably the most natural in the entire book.

Bittersweet.

On the one hand, it is an ending, at long last.  And it had its moments.

On the other hand, the book feels rushed.  It feels forced, with too many new events and too many resolutions crammed into a single book.  The pacing is choppy.  The out-of-character moments and jarring modern terminology from the previous 2 novels show up again. 

And ultimately, it felt unsatisfying, with a lack of closure except for a handful of characters.  I'm not asking for everything to be wrapped up with a little "happily ever after" bow on it, but it would have been nice to get a better glimpse of the future.  To get the reactions of everyone involved as they dealt with the cost of victory and planned for the future.  Instead many of the character deaths felt like a quota being fulfilled, and other characters simply never (or barely) appeared.

Part of me really wishes that the act of writing this book had been drawn out.  I wouldn't have minded waiting longer and/or buying more books if that's what it took to truly do the ending justice.  But a longer process would be completely unfair to Brandon Sanderson.  This was an impossible task, and he gave it his best.  But if I had to rank this book against the others in the series, it would land just about at the bottom.

---

On a non-writing quality related note, I have to say that the death that shocked me the most was Egwene's.  I mean, I knew she was a goner as soon as Gawyn went down, but I felt that she still had more character development left in her future (especially re: Aes Sedai issues brought up during Nynaeve's testing) and it's hard to imagine the White Tower surviving without her.

And the survival that shocked me the most was Talmanes.  I thought for sure that he and the Band were going to be decimated in Caemlyn after the end of ToM, and that feeling was reinforced by his Myrddraal-inflicted wounds.  Don't get me wrong, I love the character, but that felt for sure like it was heroic sacrifice time.

I may have just put it on the Aes Sedai page then, and probably on the Tel'aran'rhiod page. (Again, I'm being lazy, sorry.) It's an RJ quote.

 

I can't wait until the new database is done; it should solve all of the remaining 'can't find it' problems, especially once we really go over and perfect the tags. (It will be a search engine, but you can also view full interviews, and there will be tags on each question/entry that work like the categories on the current database, but more specific, since making more categories doesn't inhibit the process in any way, unlike with the current format.) And speaking of that, I should get to work...

That's pretty awesome. Thanks for your (and whoever else is working on that project) hard work.

If you go over them, you'll see RJ usually referred to other stuff like Min's viewings and Hurin's skill as 'abilities'. In written medium, there's also a distinction between 'Talent' and 'talent'.

 

Having said that, feel free to present supporting quotes. I might be misinterpreting what I read.

 

It could be simple confusion since in-world it's nearly always Aes Sedai who refer to 'Talents', and nearly always in the context of people who can channel. Is seeing ta'veren a Talent, a talent or an ability? Siuan calls it a Talent, but she could be wrong--on the surface it doesn't seem to be tied to channelling, and Loial could also sense ta'veren, though perhaps not in the same way. It's easy to see how Aes Sedai might link random supernatural abilities to Talents, where RJ makes a semantic distinction.

 

-- dwn

If I remember correctly from TEOTW, Loial didn't conclude that Rand was ta'veren until after he'd heard his story. The same goes for the other two -- Loial has to hear their stories before he concludes that they are ta'veren. In my opinion, that's not so much sensing it as recognizing its description from his studies.

The Player of Games, Iain M. Banks. Terrific book, highly recommended.

One of his best for sure. I'm glad that some other people on here read Banks, the guy's created an amazing sci-fi universe.

 

Have you read his latest release, Surface Detail? I would put it up as his second best book, behind PoG. Compelling story, some awesome scenes with Culture warships, and it actually's got some nice philosophy in it.

Not yet. I just started reading Banks, and I'm going with the books available from my local library for now -- they've only got Consider Phlebas, Inversions, The Player of Games, and Excessions. I've read the first three. I like him enough that I'll probably buy some of his books when I get the chance, so I'll try to remember that recommendation.

The Player of Games, Iain M. Banks. Terrific book, highly recommended.

Home Fires, Gene Wolfe. Book was so-so. The premise was really interesting, but the plot was unnecessarily convoluted and distracted from that premise. The narrative's also pretty difficult to follow because it jumps forward in time, so sometimes characters will refer to fairly significant events that happen off-screen in between chapters.

I've heard the Malazan books are good. What are peoples thoughts on them??

The series overall is solid. It's got some amazing high points early on (Deadhouse Gates and Memories of Ice) but, in my opinion, some of the later books aren't as good.

Was Rand getting his hand blown off not proof that victory would be costly?

 

Was the scene of Rand being tortured in a collar and chocking the life out of his beloved Min not terrifying and tension filled? It was still disturbing and scary dispite Min not dying.

Those are good examples that I'd forgotten. Maybe I just haven't read the books recently enough, but what I'm trying to get at is that RJ often stated that the Light was on its last legs, but it's difficult to really see that without actually thinking about what's happened so far. The protagonists have really been rolling along, mowing down almost everything in their paths. We get glimpses of trouble in the world, but I don't think it really strikes home.

Lack of character deaths:

This is something I feel strongly about.

I honestly don't mind that Rand and the other major players have plot armor. What I want is more tension.

One way would be to have less major character dying. That is, characters who aren't important enough to have POVs, but who become important parts of a main character's sequence. Someone the main character bonds with or relies on. For example, Moiraine dying for good at the docks. That would drive home the message that while Rand and co. are going to win, it's not going to be easy and they're going to be bleeding out the entire way.

Death isn't even necessary. For example, the kidnapping of Rand in LOC worked just as well to drive that point home. But later in the series, we don't really get anything like that, or at least nothing that drives home the same tension. For example, Elayne's kidnapping wasn't the same. (Bad example, I know. I was mostly feeling relief during that scene. ) The length of time spent wasn't as long, the circumstances weren't as horrific, and the rescue wasn't bittersweet.

Length/pacing:

It's not as big of an issue for me, since I didn't have to wait between all the books. So I don't mind the length of the series. But the pacing slowed down considerably after LOC, and it didn't have to. A lot of the plotlines in ACOS through COT could have been condensed, while still leaving room for character development and world building.

Reread The Fifth Elephant. Probably one of my favorite fantasy books. I'd forgotten how much I enjoy Pratchett.

Anyways I don't even know why I'm posting in this thread, this site's purpose is for fans of the world RJ created to gather and share their enjoyment of one of the best epic fantasy series I've ever read, and discuss possible theories and whatnot. And yet, more threads are devoted to what's wrong with the series than most topics I've seen addressed. If there's so much wrong with this series, why even discuss it and criticize it when you can move on to the next book/series? It's not like anyone is paying you for your flaming criticisms.

That's ridiculous.

Enjoying the series does not preclude believing that it is imperfect.

WOT is one of my favorite fantasy series -- perhaps my favorite fantasy series -- but that doesn't mean I don't think it could have been better. I certainly wouldn't be wasting my time on this forum if I actually disliked it.

hybrid - I don't understand how you can say, when perrin is captured by WC they will kill as DF, but he shouldn't lash out in an unprovoked attack?!

 

His most effective method of self-defense is to surprise attack the murderers and try to kill them all before they are get a chance to kill Perrin.

if your the one attacking how is it self defence?

Exactly.

jsbrads, don't get me wrong. I think Perrin was justified in acting as he did. But his actions were illegal under Andor's laws. If he's going to submit himself under Andoran law, then he pays the price for his actions.

Finished Inversions and The Algebraist by Iain M. Banks. Both were fantastic. Banks is quickly becoming one of my favorite SF authors.

Great theory: Demandred really is Moridin! *gasp*

No, no. You've fallen for the obvious red herring. The truth of the matter is that Demandred is the father of all fades. The fact that he never smiles is a dead giveaway. What are the odds that two characters who never smile would be in the same book?

Ah, OK. I haven't read the books in a little while, so I've forgotten a lot of minor details.

That being said, my point still stands (I know you're not trying to refute my point, Kael, I'm just clarifying).

No matter how justified Perrin was in killing the Children in retrospect, he was still wrong to do so unprovoked.

Durinax - Bornhald not actually that reasonable, he is a WC and he knew Perrin and Egwene were DF, period.

the fact that he wasn't foaming at the mouth like Byar, and he spoke in a calm voice doesn't change his WC leanings.

WC could not think of a good reason for two kids to be out there and there were wolves in the area, any people must be DF.

Reread Bornhald you will see what i'm saying.

Actually, while you are right that Bornhald is just as fanatical in his own right, Bornhald condemns Perrin to death due to his killing of two of the Children.

It is true that Perrin and Egwene were unlikely to be treated well. But the fact of the matter is that Perrin attacked the Children. It wasn't self defense. He did what he had to do, but he still has to pay the price.

Thank you!

I'll check the encyclopedia, but it seems the dungeon prophecy is the link I was missing. I'll have to look up its wording.

There's also the Slayer POV in WH, when he attempts to kill Rand and Min in Far Madding, in which he thinks of himself as both Luc and Isam.

Having both words seems rather clunky. Maybe Valonian or Valonese?

Regardless, I believe you're right in that we never actually hear a name for citizens of Tar Valon.

P.S. Did anyone else immediately think of a catchy little rhyme as an answer to GYLD's post?

Finished Century of the Soldier. It's a great omnibus, with some particularly poignant parts, but the final book is weaker than the rest of the series -- it reads more like a quick epilogue or a history lesson than the rest of the series. Still, I'd recommend the series (Paul Kearney's Monarchies of God).

Working on The Darkness That Comes Before. It's good so far, but you really have to be in the right mindset to read it.

The fact is they could not do it..the Aiel would have smashed them. Talk is pretty cheap. I could say I am going to take on Randy Coutore..in reality I would not last 10 sec before getting my teeth knocked out.

 

Not sure if the Andoran army is stronger than Tear..both are considered the strongest nations in randland...it is immaterial anyway because the Aiel is stronger than all of them.

Enough with the strawmen.

Suttree merely said that the Andorans would unite to drive out the Aiel, if it came to that. He never said that they would succeed.

I've just finished The Well of Ascension. I'm worried about finishing this trilogy. The Hero of Ages is sitting right next to me. But as I said I am worried. Specifically about Elend. I can deal with him being an Allomancer, but not if he turns out to be more powerful than Vin.

That was my thought as well. I felt their relationship was stronger when they had to contend with being unequal in terms of abilities.

I didn't like that decision at all.

That's pretty much how I found Elantris as well. The first time through you have to finish it to figure out what's going on. But I can't muster up enough interest for a second read.

Thanks, though I can't really take the credit. Mark Grayson posted the first one; I was just following up on his post.