I'm really thinking that she has something pretty big up her sleeve, and it will play a big part in AMoL.

 

I agree with that.  Why does releasing herself from the Oaths that all Aes Sedai take, while still pretending to be Aes Sedai, have to be a part of that?

You're right, it doesn't need to.  But if it doesn't mean something, why did RJ include this whole sequence at all?  And why am I answering this?  I can't seem to help myself.

I don't understand the logical progression of using Verin's POV as a defense of her being bound to the first oath, while at the same time contending that the first oath is so worthless that a bald faced lie such as "Moiraine sent me, Lord Inktar.  She thought you might need me" can be shrugged off by all concerned.  If the oath is that weak, then she is trying so hard with her compulsion subjects perhaps because it comes so unnaturally to her. 

Ah, well, unlike RAW, I won't be disappointed if Verin is a few oaths short of a full load.  I'm really thinking that she has something pretty big up her sleeve, and it will play a big part in AMoL.

No-ones going to convince either side on this one.  On to other threads.

How you work so hard to convince yourselves that Verin "convinced herself" that Moiraine sent her, so she could lie.  That's the same as lying, anyways.  Verin doesn't need to convince herself of anything; she has her own agenda and everything that she does is to that end.  She is not bound by the first oath.

Mmm, i agree most seem to die--though it is correct that we don't know for sure... As for Logain and Owyn... neither are particularily good examples. Logain was kept in a cage, good enough, and Owyn lost everything he knew. Their lives predisposed the worst to their depression. Thats the Aes Sedai's fault more than anything, their attitude toward male channelers is dispicable.

 

In addition, I think Owyn was very far gone in madness, and had become a true danger.  The development of madness stops at the gentling, but it doesn't get better, and in such a state the sink into irreversible clinical depression would seem inevitable.  Thom has a blind spot here; while understandable, his attitude towards the AS over Owyn is truly because of his relationship to Owyn, not the particulars of this case.  Owyn's fate was sealed; perhaps in his case a death sentence would have been more humane.  Each case is different, though; before the cleansing healing Owyn would have been a mistake.

There are differences between ignorance, stupidity, and idiocy.  Of course, there are some stupid AS; having the ability to channel doesn't necessarily correlate to a high level of intelligence.  Channeling idiots are extremely dangerous, as we have seen.

It is the willful ignorance of the AS that has held them back the most.  This is not unusual in bureaucracies or power blocs.  Those groups tend to only attempt to perpetuate their power.  Most advances come from those free to think freely; with as highly structured a society as the AS live in, it is totally realistic that their relationship to the rest of society has deteriorated - even if their position of power hasn't, until the introduction of the Dragon Reborn into the equation drastically changed the situation.

There have always been those that have realized that said structure wasn't the best way; examples have been provided (Moiraine, Cadsuane).  Siuan was wise enough to send the Wonder Girls off to allow them to develop.

I also disagree that Egwene's re-joining the Tower to rise to the AS from within is part of this ignorance; I think that she knows that with TG coming, the AS must be led by an "enlightened" AS, who knows what their role in TG will be.  She believes that a unified Tower at TG is a must.

And yes, poor communication is a recurring theme of this tale.  That is totally realistic; even with our "advanced" technologies today, actual communication is lacking.  We all act on imperfect knowledge; we don't have access to true POVs from our friends and enemies.  While we have that access in the WOT, the characters don't.  In a time when communication can be very slow, it is very believable that a lack of information greatly influences outcomes.

    By the way, marrying Lan was the best thing to happen to her in my opinion. :)

Hers, too!

Ever notice how Tenobia and Faile have exactly the same personality?  I know that "nurture vs nature" thing and all, but they could have SOME differences. 

A chilling thought: maybe the melting was just a symptom; maybe all of the taint didn't go into Shadar Logoth; maybe saidar has been tainted.

The theory basically was that the WOT world was an actual creation by a sentient being; at the time of the creation the being was trapped within it.  Not from being crazy, just from miscalculation.

 

A being creates the entire univers, one power and sets the planets and stars in motion and breathes life into the world and then traps itself due to 'miscalculation?'  All I can say for such an idea is : OH-MY-GOD!

Not THE universe, A universe.  I like the OH-MY-GOD part, though.

No, I don't think that there is any direct evidence to support this hypothesis, although the statement by RJ that the DO and the Creator have equal power I find encouraging. 

Sort of.  It wasn't my theory (sorry, can't remember who, and with the number of posts and topics I haven't been able to find it), I just liked the elegance of it.  The theory basically was that the WOT world was an actual creation by a sentient being; at the time of the creation the being was trapped within it.  Not from being crazy, just from miscalculation.  RJ saying that the DO and the Creator have equal power doesn't eliminate this idea.  Based on concrete evidence?  No.  Eliminated by concrete evidence?  No.  Far-fetched?  Maybe.  But - we'll see (as RJ often said, we will RAFO).  

It seems to me that the Light and the Dark One are working towards a common goal - getting the DR to TG.  There are some on both sides that don't necessarily agree with this goal, so it may get hairy yet.  The question is, what will the confrontation be between the DO and the DR?  Is it really a "confrontation"?  It isn't going to be your traditional encounter - it won't be man vs man (or woman).  The DO is something completely outside the WOT.  I still believe that the Creator and the DO are one and the same; the Creator has become trapped in his own creation; the DR is the key to releasing her/him/it.  The DO will continue to manuever the DR towards TG time after time until a release is effected.  In the DO's time, these encounters may almost seem to be instantaneous; time after time; as the DO exists outside of time.  Time (and BS) will tell.

If Luckers is right, then logically this sort of occurence will escalate in AMoL, making the Light's job much more difficult.  Any ideas on what forms that might take?