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A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

FetFnask

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  1. As Tarmon Gai'don grinds on, the Light will become weaker due to fatigue, starvation and so on. It is more likely that the Shadow will get the upper hand the longer the Light waits.
  2. As far as I know, we do not know. My reasoning is that it would be a possible bonus. Worst case scenario, they just get demoralized and/or disorganized.
  3. Ok, I see your point I think. I do believe this is Rands choice (and probably Perrins and Mats as well) since he is the one who will actually do it. And I believe being the active part is the wisest choice. Delaying only increases the odds of Rand or another key player getting taken out by the Shadow. If, as you say, the DO buffs the shadowspawn, well... that will happen either way when the seals are broken. Taking on trollocs with +50 HP would be easier early on in the war rahter than later. Destroying the shadowspawn will probably more or less destroy human civilization again, ie another Breaking. Actually defeating the DO will be the only way to possibly avoid this. mjasghar786 is correct. Delaying will only strengthen the Shadow, not the Light. Trollocs feed after battles and Dreadlords do not care about civilian casualties. Every day Rand delays will be the potential death of thousands of people. From a resource perspecitve, breaking the seals and facing the DO asap is the only logical choice.
  4. I'm sorry, I don't get your point.
  5. Sure, but that isn't what I was concerned with for this topic. Just the wager of doing it sooner rather than later. It will be a gamble either way, imo, so sooner is better. This is what is going to happen in AMoL I think, there isn't room in the book for anything else.
  6. I disagree. One day is one day more for death and destruction. Not if Rand deals with the DO straight away. If we assume that his chances of beating the DO is equal whenever he decides to break the seals, then it stands to reason that it is pointless to waste resources fighting what is, essentially, a mundane proxy war. Yes, IF Rand breaks the seals and let's the DO influence the world without a confrontation. That is not what I meant though. Rand needs to break the seals and go to SG asap. Agreed. My point was that it is Rands fight with the DO that matters, not the armies. In much the same way that it's Frodo, the Ring and Mount Doom in LotR that matters and not the armies of Gondor and Rohan. IF Rand has a plan, he should implement it as soon as possible to avoid the destruction of lives and infrastructure. Worst case scenario, given the defeat of the DO, is that the armies have to fight the shadowspawn and DFs with the DO out of the picture.
  7. So, it's almost over, huh? I've been reading and discussing WoT since the early 90s and there are just a few months left to wait. A strange feeling indeed. Anyway, I have a... not theory, but an idea how Rand et al should/could reason regarding breaking the seals right away (or not). The way I see it we basically have two active decisions and one passive: Rand break the seals straight away before the war really breaks out (and goes to fight the DO). Rand break the seals after most of the war is over or at least at the last possible moment (and goes to fight the DO). Do nothing and wait and see what happens. Option three (3) seems stupid both from a dramaturgical and strategical point of view, so let's ignore that for this discussion. We can also identify two outcomes of Tarmon Gai'don: Shai'tan is defeated and die / get resealed / something. Shai'tan breaks free and the pattern goes to NUL. Considering this we get four outcomes: 1. Rand break the seals straight away (and goes to fight the DO). Shai'tan is defeated and the shadowspawn armies at the very worst (from a Light perspective) get a lot weaker or perhaps even die off en masse. Shai'tan wins and all hope is lost. 2. Rand break the seals at the last possible moment (and goes to fight the DO). Shai'tan is defeated and the remaining shadowspawn armies get the effect as above. Shai'tan wins and all hope is lost. The way I see it, from the perspecive of the Light, option 1 is clearly the best since, ceteris paribus, it is the best possible use of resources, lives and infrastructure both in long and short term. A war of armies can actually be avoided if the shadowspawn die off with the Dark One. If not, well, then at least the are severely demoralized. If Rand and his band of merry men fight the trolloc hordes first and then Shai'tan, massive losses will be had no matter the outcome. Caemlyn will not be the only great city to be reduced to a BBQ. Armies and nations will, without a doubt, be wiped out. Librarys will be burnt, people will flee. Famine and disease will reduce the population and possibly another Breaking like event will occur. This is even if the Dark One is defeated. I say, why not try to avoid that? Of course, this does not consider the probabilities of the two outcomes at the different courses of action, but we cannot know them and therefore not quantify them. What we do know is that the two options are there. Thoughts? EDIT: Added "(and goes to fight the DO)" for clarity.
  8. Sunny, I believe that some people get pissed off when you bring real life issues into what they consider escapism. You are judging these books, and all other books/movies/whatever I'd wager, by your own personal brand of Utopia. You are clearly a feminist, a socialist (of sorts) and a pascifist. I predict that you will not enjoy WoT and I honestly suggest that you do not read further. I've never been a believer in the myth that WoT is gender equal in any way. Almost all the movers and shakers are men throughout the series. There will be no equality. Especially not the way you see it. I suggest trying out fantasy that does not even pretend. Something that revels in the brawn, the beard, the blood and the booze. Read the First Law Trilogy by Joe Abercrombie. You will have no other choice but to read it without having Utopia in mind. That being said, it is not the equivalent of a dumb action movie. Try it!
  9. I have a suggestion. You should bring up a theme to discuss in each post. What you think about dialogue, exposition, scene discription and som on. It would be interesting I think.
  10. I could tell you, but that would spoil it. =)
  11. Love your comments generally, the only thin that annoys me is that when you dislike a character you don't give them a chance. This for example: "All of a sudden Lan can sense Trollocs if they come within a quarter mile? So why did Lan just let the monsters walk in Emond's Field and burn down the blacksmith's forge and Mat's home? Was he too busy brushing his teeth to warn the town?" A quarter mile? That's about 400 m, right? Tell me what he could have done to stop a small horde of giant beastmen running at Horse Speed or what time he had to warn the village in any way that would have mattered. Tell me that he didn't actually do it. Horses can gallop at about 30 mph. That's 0,5 miles per minute. 0,25 (quarter mile) per 30 seconds. So he had 30 seconds to react. Silly to believe that he could do anything other than draw his sword and shout at the rednecks. And their drunken reaction to the scary looking foreign samurai waving his sword about and screaming about monsters from legend? Laughter and jests, no doubt, for about 10-15 seconds until the creatures actually appear and rampage through the village.
  12. The Aiel: The heart of the issue is, what is it to be Aiel? Is it the Three-fold land? The spears? The social structure? The caidin'sor? I believe that it is ji'e'toh. That is the core of the Aiel. Blacksmiths are Aiel, gai'shain are Aiel. Wise Ones are Aiel. The one thing they all have in common is ji'e'toh. When they realise that, they can decide their place in the world. What they should do now. I still believe that the Aiel can never be rid of their toh without throwing down their spears. They will repay their toh towards the Aes Sedai they incurred by abondoning their task by fighting in the Last Battle. But the toh they have towards themselves that they incurred by breaking their oath of non-violence they can only be rid of by doing no violence. It is like an alcoholic who vows to himself to drink no more. He goes for a week, two weeks, without drinking. Finally he succumbs and gets wasted beyond belief. In his drunken stupor he sets fire to a house. He realises that he must repay the owners of the house fully. When he has done so, can he morally motivate a continuation of drinking? The house is repayed and the owners are happe considering the circumstances. I say no. He has broken the vow he made to himself. The only way to make things right is to stop drinking. Same thing with the Aiel. So what should they do instead of fighting just for the sake of fighting? In my opinion they should rediscover their history. Take up the Way of the Leaf and go out into the world. Find the Ssteddings, talk to the Ogier. They should know a great deal about the old days. Assist the Ogier with rebuilding the cities. Talk to the Tuatha'an, join them in finding the Song of Growing and help heal a world ravaged by war, starvation and dark taint. Learn crafts and professions and help the weak and poor. Learn medicine and cure the sick. Learn about the One Power to strengthen their efforts. Bring life to the Blight. It's a big world out there for a people who has gained alot of ji during the Last Battle. There is much to be explored, discovered and experienced. I think all this will follow when they realise that ji'e'toh is at the heart of what it means to be Aiel. The Seanchan: The might of the Throne is the damane. I think this is quite clear and if I recall correctly this has been said in the books. A consolidated Seanchan backing the beachhead that thay already have in the Westlands will grind down any resistance sooner or later. Sure, the a'dam only works on women now, but that can change. One ould even make the argument that the Ladalin segment shows this. "Those cursed a'dam! Each channeler the Aiel lost to capture was eventually turned against them." (enphasis mine) The omission of specifying a gender could mean a unisex a'dam (adding an e've?) Aviendha as Oncala reflected that "The Raven Empires techniques and skill with shaping the One Power were growing." The point is that they have an untouched production base in Seanchan. Much like the USA during WW2. Even without Soviet the allies would have ground the Reich down eventually. War is ALL about logistics if both sides are somewhat equal in strength from the getgo. The only way to stop the Seanchan from taking over the world as we see in Aviendhas flashforwards is to destroy the damane. They way to do that has been overtly hinted at several times during the series. Damane are the ones born with the spark. The wilders of Seanchan. Sul'dam are the ones who can learn to wield the One Power (in the Westlands.) However, the Seanchan are not aware of this fact and should it be made known that the sul'dam are actually channelers themselves the powerbese of the Seanchan would be in grave danger. Added to this is that the current Empress (MSLF) Fortuona, is a sul'dam herself and is married to Mat Cauthon, a man who dislikes women being treated the way that the damane are. When the fact that sulädam are cahnnels hit Seanchan, both in the Westlands and in Seanchan Proper civil nrest is sure to follow. Rebellions seem quite commen and it is almost a guarantee that they will blossom during the troubled times that are sure to take place. Rebellion in Seanchan and the weapon that is the damane/sul'dam being confused, frightened and thus less effective bring instability to the empire. Combine all this with the Shadows manipulation of events in Seanchan Proper (a murderer openly ruling Seanchan and so on) and the only logical course of action for Fortuona is to return to the homelands to restore order and reestablish dominance. Fortuona is the key. She has the power to cause all this with some sign language. But she already knows and doen't really care. She choses not to channeö, that is enough. So what means can be used to persuade her? I think there are four key elements: - The deus ex machine that is the ta'veren powers of Mat, Rand and Perrin. - Rands sword, Justice. It once belonged to Artur Hawkwing. Bribe? Awe-factor? - Mat and the Horn of Valere. He blows it and Fortuona can have a chat with Artur himself. - Fortuonas love for Mat. One, some or all of these things should suffice to blow the lid. Let the sul'dam out of the bag. It will take care of the Seanchan problem.
  13. I was writing on the Aviendhas Arc thread and the idea that Nakomi was Jenn struck me. I did some research and the idea appeals to me. As mentioned above, native american mythology describes the godess Nokomi/Nokomis as an earth godess. Different sources says different things, but that seems to be her role. She is not a fertility godess, more of an old crone. Giving advice perhaps? Caring for her people? Verin does not seem likely to me. The funny thing is though that when we first hear of the Jenn Aiel it is from Urien of the Reyn. He is out and about, looking for Rand, and he happens upon Mat, Perrin, Ingtar and Verin. She asks him alot of stuff and he says that Rhuidean lies in the land of the Jenn Aiel. And that only Aiel that wishes to become Wise Ones of Clan Chiefs may go there. "I . . . can tell you only what is known to all. Rhuidean lies in the lands of the Jenn Aiel, the thirteenth clan. I cannot speak of them except to name them. None may go there save women who wish to become Wise Ones, or men who wish to be clan chiefs. Perhaps the Jenn Aiel choose among them; I do not know. Many go; few return, and those are marked as what they are - Wise Ones, or clan chiefs. No more can I say, Aes Sedai. No more." Could the Jenn still be there? They fortold their doom and created the ter'angreal to guide the Aiel, so that that would remember their history. “Our days dwindle,” Mordaine said. “A day will come when the Jenn are no more, and only you will remain to remember the Aiel. You must remain, or all is for nothing, and lost.” The flatness of her voice, the calm sureness, silenced Charendin, but Mandein had one more question. “Why? If you know your doom, why do this?” He gestured toward the structures rising in the distance. “It is our purpose,” Dermon replied calmly. “For long years we searched for this place, and now we prepare it, if not for the purpose we once thought. We do what we must, and keep faith.” We have now passed the point where that matters. Rand made sure of that. Aviendha seem to agree. Could the ter'angreal have been repurposed? We have no evidence that the Jenn are gone. They MIGHT have done it. A prophecy involving Avi? Also the Jenn used Dream to call the chiefs for that meeting. It is fairly obvious that the entire sequence from Nakomis appearance to her departure is in a dream. Avi closes her eyes to rest in the paragraph before Nakomi, and then she falls asleep after. It also does away with the need to explain the weirdness that happens. No Saidin, no inverted weaves, no creator. Only TAR. Jenn and TAR. It fits nicely.
  14. Nice summary and very well done. Should be added to the FAQ IMO. For me the key to this whole thing is Nakomi's conversation with Aviendha. "It seems to me," Nakomi said "that by breaking our ancient oaths to do no violence, our people have gained great 'toh." at the end of the conversation "And so," Nakomi said softly, "once Sightblinder is defeated, what is left for us? . . . Why continue the old ways? How do we find honor in raiding, in killing one another, if wear4e no longer preparing for such an important task? Why grow harder? For the sake of being hard itself?" That's the crux of it. The Aiel have to find something to be when it's all said and done. If they don't, then they'll turn to fighting the Seanchan and be utterly destroyed. Thank you. =) And I agree that Nakomi is the key, or one of them. I think she is right. I do not believe she's an agent for Sightblinder. The Aiel has great toh. They must see that by continuing to do violence after the Last Battle they continue to incur more toh. Policing the Westlands after the LB will mean violence. They must lay down the spears to regain their honour. Perhaps Rands helps with this by giving them the song and giving them the task, nay the honour, of singing life into the lands again and even into the Blight. To help them they have their moral and honourable cousings, the Tuatha'an and the Ogier. This will not be easy, but the Aiel are determined enough to prevail against all odds. Just like the Tuatha'an. Both Aiel and Tuatha'an have toh towards the Aes Sedai in a way. Aiel put their spears away, join the Tuatha'an and they find the Song of Growing together. Then they become the Jenn Aiel. They return to their roots, Da'shain Aiel from the Age of Legends. Somthing just hit me. Could Nakomi be Jenn? What do we know about the Jenn? Also, what about those hissing sticks?
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