In Tel'aran'rhiod, the dream becomes what you believe. Mat believes he is lucky, so combined with his "luck" ability, and him making himself lucky, he would be incredibly hard to hit with anything. He might just get "lucky" and the person's heart would stop or their ball of fire would hit one of his enemies. Having the memories of old generals have taught him concentration and focus, making him more prepared for Tel'aran'rhiod. Many victories in the world of dreams have been surprise attacks, or unexpected moves. Mat's double luck would make him perfect for executing and avoiding these tactics. Of course, he would have to have a ter'angreal ring that would allow a non-channeling man to enter Tel'aran'rhiod or learn to dream into Tel'aran'rhiod. With Perrin to teach him, I think Mat could become a god in the world of Tel'aran'rhiod.

No wish can be made, or question asked that touches the DO because the wish/boon would unravel. Moiraine says this in book three.

I think based on your OP power and ta'evern significance, you can make certain wishes. Wishes be in accordance with the significance of what you can offer (one life may be of more value than another life). Nothing can touch the DO and while the eelfin/aelfin are strong, I doubt they could give you another of the CK, unless you were the DR himself. I also think that they are a form of pattern benders, because they got more joy from mat's eye since he was ta'evern. Maybe the pattern only lets you make some wishes as well?

This is a very touchy topic, but I'm going to give it my best shot.

#1  Ishamael/Moridin. This is obvious, Rand's main Archrival and Na'eblis. Insane power, a philosopher who creates dreamshards and is completely devoted.

#2  Demandred. He is basically defined as a lesser version of Lews Therin which comparatively, makes him one of the strongest Forsaken. A master tactician, he rivals Mat and almost leads the armies of the shadow to victory. He possesses a sa’angreal stronger than callandor (not counting amplifying the power of the dark one) and complete dominance of Shara (a nation about 400 channelers, and a gigantic military force). He kills both Gawyn with the shadow rings and mortally wounds Galad (who had the foxhead amulet at the time). He also fights days on end in the final battle, constantly channeling and is recognized by graendal as stronger than semirhage and mesaana.

#3  Graendal. Let’s get the bad stuff out of the way first, she interfered with and completely messed up the plans of a ton of other Forsaken. However, she excels in every category of strength. A master of compulsion, she twists the minds of the great captains, causing thousands of casualties and almost crushing all of the armies of the light. She possesses an angreal and was described fighting most of the lights strongest channelers including Alivia, Aviendah, Amys, and Cadsuane. Rand (with all of Therin’s memories) states that Graendal is so incredibly intelligent, it’s useless to try to plot against her. He eradicates an entire city-fortress with balefire to destroy her, yet only kills aran’gar. Ishamael thought she could kill sammael and it took 8 books to kill graendal.

#4 Sammael. He doesn’t really have a defining feat, but he was a top general in the war of power and is reasonably skilled with the one power. His warding skills are top notch, and is regarded as highly competent. He took illian and wasn’t a pushover. Nothing amazing, but he was decent.

#5 Rahvin. This guy took over Andor without anyone noticing, and got the queen to be his glorified harlot for a while. On the same level as sammael, he took over a kingdom and is a powerful channeler. Good with compulsion and balefire, he killed Asmodean, Aviendah, and Mat, but got erased in an epic balefire fight with Rand. Rahvin had only a bit less of the one power than Rand, and almost won his fight.

#6 Semirhage. She is a master torturer and permanently turns people to the shadow by stimulating their pain and pleasure nervous systems. She was the best healer of her age and can heal almost any wound. Her ambush almost kills Rand and she takes one of his hands. A black sister lets her escape captivity and she puts a male adam on Rand. If Rand hadn’t been able to use the power of the dark one, it would have been game over. She also expertly manipulated the seanchan and turned them against Rand.

#7 Mazrim Taim. He managed the black tower and went to the Forsaken, bringing about 100 dreadlords with him. A false dragon, he could use almost as much of the One Power as Rand. He fought Egwene, both armed with Sa’angreals, and got a mutual kill, which is the best kill any Forsaken has got. He is a good tactician and uses balefire casually. He doesn’t have the wisdom of the other Forsaken, and Demandred basically tells him to be a good boy and go fight Egwene.

#8 Lanfear. In terms of raw strength, cunning, and skill, lanfear should get #5 or #6. However, she has dangerous tunnel vision and can’t really complete anything. Graendal describes her as a meddler and her compulsion at the end of book 14 breaks, killing her. If not for her, many of the Forsaken would be alive, and Rand would be dead.

#9 Aginor. While his contributions in this age are almost non-existent, and he gets killed accidentally by a black sister, it could be argued that he is #2 or #3. He bio-engineered the trollocs, giving an almost limitless amount of mindless soldiers to the shadow, the myrdaal were created accidentally, but by him, even if it was unintended. He also created the gholam, a power resistant human looking creature that can fold itself into tiny cracks and crush spines with it’s bare hands. He has about as much strength as demandred, but is physically weak and not good at military strategy.

#10 Asmodean. This guy gets a bad setup, yet manages to turn the shaido against rand, which annoys him for a while. He was highly skilled and might have beat rand if lanfear hadn’t betrayed him. Good plots and strong, he really got unlucky with how his situation played out.

#11 Be’lal. He took over Tear and guarded Callandor. He has good achievements, but what puts him near the bottom is that he was killed by Moiraine, who isn’t even especially strong, and his death helped solidify Rand’s control over Tear.

#12 Balthamel. He fights Rand at the eye of the world and loses. After being reincarnated he skulks around the rebel Aes Sedai camp and meddles, assassinating many Aes Sedai and influencing the black sisters in the camp. He is in no way weak, and kills a few asha’man and Aes Sedai. He frees Moghedien and gives Egwene crippling headaches and nightmares. Strong in the one power and cunning, he is a reliably powerful member of the Forsaken, but doesn’t have any big achievements.

#13 Mesaana. She kept the white tower divided for a while, and was moderately powerful. She had a good plan which might have worked if the dreamspike hadn’t been in Tar Valon. Graendal rates her as a third rate member of the Forsaken, not matching the power or cunning of the others.

#14 Moghedien. Not much strength or skill, Moghedien gets almost immediately beaten and captured by two accepted. She teaches the Aes Sedai important techniques. After being freed by another Forsaken, she does almost nothing, making no impact. A lot of her importance comes from her scheming and spying, yet most of her schemes backfire or do almost nothing.

On 8/15/2020 at 6:29 AM, DojoToad said:

When Semirhage was captured and Rand lost his hand, why wasn’t balefire considered to restore Rand?

 

I understand ruling it out - after all having a captive Forsaken could be quite valuable. But it never was discussed in either KoD or tGS. 

 

Anyone else find it odd?  Just never came up...

I think that it is more strange that she wasn't just KOS'ed. She is an incredibly powerful forsaken with the ultimate torture resisting skills. Just a tiny weave of balefire to take care of the Forsaken in the basement. Wasn't anyone worried a black sister might help her escape?

Personally, I think the worst romance is not the siuan-byrne, not the egwene-gawyn, but the morgase-tallanvor. It kinda came out of nowhere and is weird that morgase is falling for someone half her age. Morgase was irrelevent nt in book four, so I don't get why they keep using her, even after reading all of the books. It doesn't develop the plot and is just flat out weird. While there is some logical develoment, it doesn't advance the story.

Hi my name is Melodious Androl and I am a big fan of the series gracing this site with my presence. I read the whole series and love to debate topics (especially Forsaken) so send me a link to a forum if you have a topic!

On 10/2/2020 at 11:19 AM, Elder_Haman said:

I like the ideas, but I don't think the Gholam-Semirhage idea is good, it takes away a good mat moment and doesn't make that much sense for the continuity, semirhage would have to not kill mat which seems impossible, then get rand after. It does fit where tylin gets tortured before murdered, which makes mat angry. Also I think sammael would need some channeling, because his wards are the reason rand doesn't just bomb the place, and so he couldn't be assasinated. Demandred stays, he's good. But have moghedien and graendal the same person, have moghedien killed while in captivity by moghedien, anyone can kill her, and give more reputation to one of the forsaken. Finally, one idea is to have balthemal ressurected and him and sammael (non channeling version) working together to take over illian. Also add some crazy shadowspawn that aginor makes, he literally made the trollocs, which created myrdaal, so he should show off his skills instead of being accidentally killed by a no-name black ajah.