2 hours ago, Sushiwonder said:

Forsaken! Who will make the cut, who will not? And will 13 remain a magic number?

We all know that when adapting book-to-screen, it's important to truncate and simplify in order to not lose the audience. With that having been said: in the books, there are 13 members of the Forsaken. There are 13 Aes Sedai (or channelers, really) that are required to turn another channeler to the Dark One against their will, accompanied by 13 Myrddraal. I'm thinking they may drop that number to something lower - like... 6 or 7 - primarily to decrease the number of Forsaken we're asking our audience to both remember and care about.

 

So how many Forsaken do you think will make the cut, and who? Do you think it will affect the importance of the number 13 at all?

I think the following, at least, should be included... wouldn't be surprised if we see some of the forsaken "absorb" the plot points of others that we'll lose:

- Lanfear (how can we not?)

- Ishamael/Moridin (I suspect we may only have one body-snatcher - otherwise, there could be mass confusion in having the audience remember who's who and why their character is even important)

- Moghedian (we need a whiny little whipping post to make us feel good about ourselves. Plus: private study sessions in Saidar!)

- Asmodean (male version whipping post - plus: private study sessions in Saidin!)

- Graendal (if for no other reason than to fan service with her extravagant parties, complete with creatively clad or non-clad contortionists)

- Demandred (because: fun with subterfuge. Mazrim Taim it up, baby! Expect a name change with either Demandred or Moiraine's last name of Damodred... and they already announced Moiraine's character name -- so that would leave us with a differently named Forsaken.)

- Ravhin (... more fun with subterfuge! Hoodwink Morgase and wreak havoc in Caemlyn!)

 

Forsaken I have a hard time remembering and therefor could be cut: 

- Aginor

- Balthamel

- Sammael *(Perhaps to absorb Demandred's character - did anybody really care about Sam's blustering, anyway? Nice name you got there... it'd be a shame if I had to... give it to Demandred instead *cackle*)

- Be'lal (New phone... who 'dis? No, seriously, who the hell is Be'lal? He is "grey-man-ish" in his lack of memorability)

- Semirhage (Share her role & character aspects with Lanny, Moggy and/or Granny)

- Mesaana (Ditto?)

I am not sure they cut any Forsaken to be honest. They really are not all around at the same time necessarily and almost all of them play important roles.  I like your list but they are almost all characters that will be fun on screen. I read that the budget for each episode is actually larger than GoT so I suspect they may not cut as much as we think as much as just streamline the story progression.  I mean there were like 20 main characters in GOT at least as well, and additional characters sort of adds depth to the show even if they are not seen that much. Big question for me sort of remains how "adult" will it be. 

22 hours ago, mistborn82 said:

I'm 1/3 or so through tDR so my thoughts so far.

The recap and Rand running away chapters can be dropped or condensed but Simeon's brother might have to be kept as he seems important for the finality of Perrin. I'm not completely sure about this as his storyline will have to be sped up and spread out.

Mat's awesone and most of his stuff should be kept

ENE, I think some of their stuff can be skipped but I think the attack on Egwene and Nyneave should be there. I think Egwene's accepted test needs to be kept, especially as later in the series Egwene is the only Emondsfielder who has little to no concern for her home, whereas the test shows where she started. I think Elayne's test should be shown too, instead of offstaged.

Verin, I think the showrunners should come at her as if they'll get eight full seasons and decide whether they want to make her as important as the books or just combine some named brown sisters. I always took the Verin scene in tGS as there not being notes on how to resolve the BA so Brandon writing Verin to fit that.

Finally Lanfear, it can be filled by a randon BA, maybe Alviarin because her masquerade makes absolutely no sense as part of a larger story, much like the whole Arangar subplot later. My guess is RJ wrote the Dark Prophecy when she had greater involvement with the Tower but he went in another direction.

I'm where Lanfear just tricked them into finding the BA bags pointing to Tear.

Replace Lanfear? I would think her role would be expanded if anything in the story

18 hours ago, SinisterDeath said:

She's the lady that's always bringing Rand back down to Earth.

Elayne teaches Rand to be a King.
Aviendah teaches Rand to be hard as stone.
Min teaches Rand to be Human.

Some truth to that, though in the end Aviendah is softer than Elayne

11 minutes ago, DemandredFO said:

I think Galad is too important, especially as he's Rand's half brother. If they keep that connection, they'll probably play it up for TV but I agree, Gawyn is useless. I think they'll be changing and playing up storylines as half the books are gone, just description-wise. I'm relistening to EotW, noting what can be dropped and so far I've noticed whole sentences and and paragraphs that can be cut because they'll be visual. I can already see how the book can be made into five episode. I just hope they keep the line dancing scene with Nyneave and Moiraine, it humanizes them

Five episodes for all of EoTW. I dont think so. As much happens in EoTW as the first book of GoT

4 minutes ago, DragonFairy said:

 

I'm not saying you're wrong, just that I haven't heard enough to believe it will necessarily the case. Is there something specific on which you are basing your judgement?

I think it is a function of the medium. Ultimately, as an example Rosamund will bring certain sensibilities and characteristics to Moiraine that are not exactly the same as the character in the books. So that character might not handle certain cannon-based situations exactly the same as book Moiraine, so you make a slight tweak to that scene. And necessary cuts or changes  creates dynamics that are not in the book at all, and that changes things further.

Sticking with Moiraine, she will have a higher focus in season 1, there is a good chance her spot on the sexuality spectrum is mad more apparent, very good chance she doesnt go through the doorway or if she does is rescued pretty quickly (like beginning of the next season). Will they keep Lanfear around and not resurrect her into Cyndane? I could make a compelling argument for that

Taim will likely be Demandred as originally intended.

I suspect we get Min, Elayne and Aviendha, but one of them will have the best chemistry with the actor playing Rand so will be more focused on her.

Fain will likely have a larger role. Siuan as well and possibly Elyas.

Luc/Issam will likely be entirely cut.

And on and on....

All these things will quickly change the characters situation and ultimately the overall plot. And that means going to where the show organically should go to. 

This may be controversial, but I think GoT ultimately taught us a strong lesson.  After 4 or 5 seasons the characters in GoT were different than the book characters and they were in different situations. All of the decisions to get to that point made sense.

But then, they spent the last couple seasons trying to fit those characters into the outline of an ending that matched the books.

And it did not work. AT ALL

Bran in the series was one of the dullest "stories" in the series, yet he winds up as King. That was not true to the characters in the series.

John's heritage was shoehorned in and was a total MacGuffin.

In the TV show, Sansa or Arya should have wound up on the Iron Throne. It would have made the most sense narratively. 

The show needed to stay true to the characters as they had become on the show, and not even try to follow the narrative from the books.

The same thing will happen with the WOT TV show. The writing and actors will bring new elements to the characters, and a couple seasons in will be distinct from their book counterparts, and as the seasons go on they will become more or less "inspired" by the books.

Because of this, I think the TV show can really only closely follow the books for maybe two or three seasons and then will need to start going their own direction while still hitting some of the main "events" of the books, but getting there differently.

At some point the show will need to be more true to the show than the books.

A few years ago I would have said differently, but then we wound up with Seasons 6, 7 and 8 of  GoT.

2 hours ago, Jaglover said:

As for Thom I think he is a good character and hope he is on the show, but they will no doubt cut secondary characters and he serves more of a function in many plot scenarios rather than being someone who the story could not survive without. 

All that is true, but Thom early on is the "protector" of the kids from the evil Aes Sedai and especially to prevent gentling of Rand. That is very thematically important. Plus he is the vehicle of humor in the books to some extent, but that could be greatly expanded in the bools. I think Thom is actually the character (other than Fain) to be expanded in the books and I could actually see this as sort of a feature role for a known actor, probably a comedic one that wants more of a serious role in a big event show like this.

7 hours ago, Vambram said:

I believe that cutting Min from the TV series would be a very huge mistake that would drastically reduce the overall quality of more than a few plot lines within the WOT television show. Although Min's role in TEOTW is very brief and relatively small, she becomes a more and more crucial character in RJ's books after she meets up with the supergirls. Also, when she finally starts spending nearly every day with Rand, then I believe that she becomes one of the most important secondary characters in the series. 

I agree. I very much want Min in the series, it was just a (hopefully wrong) impression that I had.

5 hours ago, DragonFairy said:

 

 

What gives you that feeling?  I think she is too pivotal to be cut, and I don't even like her that much.

Re: cutting Min. Just a preponderence of little things. Rafe as far as I can recall has never mentioned her, plus San Derson has hinted at some big changes, and from Rafes comments it seems Egwene, Nynaeve, *Aviendha, Elayne are all in so I am not sure what other "major" character could be cut? As much as I am not a huge fan, I don't think they'd cur Perrin. 

In terms of pillow friends, it would totally make sense for Avi to be bisexual, and a realistic relationship with Elayne could grow out of that.

6 hours ago, Jaglover said:

That could work I guess

 

Done well, and tastefully, adding LGBT elements to WOT is no more going to ruin it than showing Renly and Loras together ruined GOT. It has to be done right though and not be simply gratuitous on the one hand, or ruining the characters on the other.

 

A Polyamorous relationship between the four is a good example where you are not changing the core story much as far as I can see. Also shouldn't that be a love quadrangle

I get a feeling they are cutting Min. I hope not but we will see. TBH they were all close enough in the books that Polyamorous wouldnt really be that big of a stretch.

18 hours ago, DemandredFO said:

I really wish they would drop pillows, I don't think it will get them significantly more viewers.

Sex sells, though I dont think it will be raunchy like GOT. 

6 hours ago, Jaglover said:

 

I didn't say the EOTW was a bad book just the weakest of the first six. His style wasn't fully developed, the magical system wasn't developed either (there are for example uses of the source in that book that never reoccur) and the tone of a lot of it is standard sub-Tolkien fare.

 

There are fourteen books in the series and they are likely to be heading for GOT size or a bit larger, so you cannot simply focus all the stuff excised to books seven through eleven, which are commonly agreed to be the most bloated. Elements have to be taken out of EOTW as well, bearing in mind they are apparently going to add more elements with Logain and there is the potential to add flashbacks to the prequel.  

 

In addition the success of the series is going to stand or fall largely based on its first season. So they cannot afford a weaker first season to be made up for by amazing seasons 3, 4 and 5, because they may never get there. 

I guess I just dont see from a narrative standpoint why Season 1 will be weaker. As a comparison it would be way more exciting than the first season of GOT, and it introduces many key elements and characters and the end is phenomenally exciting. i suspect they may incorporate the first few chapters of Book 2 as well and end with the start of the hunt. So maybe 8 episodes for EoTW and 2 for Great Hunt

4 minutes ago, Jaglover said:

Maybe a controversial opinion but I always thought Eye of the world was the weakest of the first six books. To me it seemed to be before RJ developed his own style and was being a bit too sub-Tolkien.

 

It terms of what can be dropped from that first book, I remember the Perrin story being rather dull and could be cut entirely, while Rand and Matts journey could also be condensed heavily.  Hopefully they are also bringing in elements of book 2 as well, because to me, books three to six need at least a series each, probably longer. 

 

In terms of rumours about increased "sex" and "diversity". You do have the issue that the fundamental character of the three rivers folk is their small town conservatism. It is a core of Rand's character at the start for example that if he had started doing it with Egwene he would have offered to marry her the next day. Take that away and you have different characters in a show called WOT, but not keeping its core. 

 

Fine with Morraine being lesbian if they want to up the sexiness and diversity count, maybe a few flashbacks with her "pillow friend" could partially tick both boxes. 

 

Not sure I would agree with your sentiments. For many, Perrin's side journey in EoTW is a favorite part of the series. I do agree Jordan's "style" got better later, but EoTW is still in the very top of the books for me. The last 200 pages or so are amazing. In terms of the sex, having a higher degree of nudity and sex outside of the Two Rivers clan can reinforce their backwardness.  The casting listings for the parts in WOT do list nudity as a requirement even for the major parts so we are definitely getting an R rated WOT, just depends on how hard.

5 hours ago, Elgee said:

Oh dear. I love her as an actress, and I think she would make an amazing Cads, or even Morgase, or Amys, but just ... not Moiraine. Why oh why must they kick off by "whitewashing" a character who's always seemed more Asian by description? You don't get more "perfect porcelain doll" than Asian women. This does not bode well for the rest of the casting. Just my humble opinion.

She never ever even remotely came across as Asian to me. In fact she mostly came across as French. Pike looks very much like I have always pictured her. 

6 hours ago, mandersen said:

If the Rosamund Pike news turns out to be true, and she accepts the role, and the role is indeed Moiraine, I totally support it. She wouldn’t have been my first choice, but she’s a talented actor and will no doubt do an excellent job. If you have a problem with this casting, I’m sorry but you’re not going to like the series. It could (and inevitably for some other casting choices WILL) be worse. If any of us want a chance of enjoying this adaptation, we’re going to have to shelf our vivid mental pictures.

I think Pike is perfect. Utterly perfect, and very close to how I have always pictured her. Some of the popular choices would just be dreadful decisions. Awesome choice if she takes it. Pike can be very youthful looking, older at times, arrogant and with just that touch of potential darkness that Moiraine has.