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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

PeacefulWarder

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  1. There was nothing really sad or heart breaking in this book. Felt like rush job, a meal eaten in haste while talking. I would have been sad if Min or Olver died. All those pages and the way Siuan and Bryne died.... oh wait can anyone even remember that? Did it do them justice or did it feel rushed a like shopping list before the world cup final? No need to reply, just think about it for a moment.
  2. I don't see most of the facts shot down. They are simply that certain people or a certain race is depicted in a certain way in this saga. I took some rest to think about what got me so upset and after thinking about my posts this bad feeling does not go away. Sorry if i upset anyone, i don't like doing that. I'm just very very disappointed with what has been done.(once again) Thought precedes action. I learnt that everything starts in the mind. The things we make, the things we do and the way we treat each other. I also learnt that what we set before our eyes and what we listen to influences our mind and actions. That lesson helps me spot that something is very wrong with the way certain people always end up depicted with negative images or marginal roles or are portrayed as the proverbial "heel" or "butt-monkey" (google those words) Even in this millenium some things just don't change. If my reaction was strong it is because i love WOT a lot. We can get quite shaken about things we love. I'm sure you understand if you love something or someone. Thanks Barid for your research and summary about other complaints on AMOL. I agree on a lot of them. On my issue with the image and role of Shara and dragging down of Tuon i'll agree to disagree. I can't think of what more it would take for anyone to say that something is seriously wrong. I will take back my claims that it must have been on purpose. I'm just a man and can't see into people's hearts. Sorry for being hasty. Personally i enjoy Western and Northern European folklore and stories without any other races in it just as much as i love something like The Avatar Airbender/Kora cartoons that are all-Asian/Oriental. I don't care about being PC or trying to include the whole world. If WOT was all white/European i would never have complained! It's just this: When you do include people you should give them a fair deal. It stinks when you include one group and they get all the rotten parts and play 'Token parts" or "Heel parts" all the time. If you are honest and look at the division of POVs, major parts, heroic acts and displays of honour, love, loyalty, dignity, endurance and bravery the entire (very long) WOT saga gave almost nothing to the darkest people. It's a fact and everybody knows this and i'm not the first to notice. Instead they appear once in a while as "tokens" and they got the coup de grace-bucket of dung in AMOL. That's what made something in me snap and go cold. I never really noticed till i read AMOL. AMOL was just so blatant, i'm still disgusted after cooling down. I can say i hate AMOL as much as i love TSR. (fantastic book) One of my teachers said if you can't say anything nice about someone it's best to say nothing. That's what bothers me about AMOL and WOT itself. Maybe someday there will be a version where they're all white and the African nation doesn't have to be ignored till the very end just to show up in the last book to crawl on all fours and serve as evil cannon fodder while all the other races unite for the future of mankind. Sanderson should have tried this plot with a Jewish looking nation. (imagine the fall out) I won't bring this issue up anymore as i don't have much nice to say for now. Gotta follow my teacher's advice. If i post again it will be something positive. Thanks for your thoughts, The Peaceful Warder - The Netherlands PS I live close to where Anne Frank lived and i work close to where she hid till they got betrayed and deported by the Nazis. Thought precedes action. Let's not forget what happened before things kicked off.
  3. I never denounced WOT. I have enjoyed it and promoted it. Nowhere did i say such a thing. However i did find some very disturbing themes i normally expect from Hollywood and Washington. I have said my piece and have used facts from the books anyone can read. I apologize for being hasty and missing RJ's comments on Shara, however the fact that RJ himself describes Sharan society as such only makes me more sad. The men are indeed raised as little more than animals. Objects without will and without name. Must be sheer coincidence that these dark skinned people resembling an African/Arab nation was the nation RJ chose for this particular idea and role in the saga. These kind of things never happened before in media and entertainment right?* All unintentional right? What happened to Tuon's honor, loyalty and morals in AMOL is also just a fluke right? Don't be mad at me, i just had to say what i see. The Peaceful Warder. *google Jud Suss, and German media during the 1930s.
  4. The ability to channel is consistently detected years after a man or woman has learned to walk and talk like a human being. It happens in teenage years throughout the whole WOT series. A Sharan man that is found to be a channeler would already have learnt to talk and walk ages before the discovery. As with the Aiel men who find out and are already trained and educated enough to undertake their suicide mission into the Blight. Or is Sanderson quickly gonna change the story and say ALL SHARAN MEN are raised and kept separate like cattle? Is that it? They are all living in apartheid and those that manifest channeling are picked from the kennel by the Ayyad? (i wonder how one teaches channeling and organised warfare to a man/beast that has no language even if he wasn't mad on top of that?) Are Sharan civilians a nation of monkey men that can't speak human words and go on all fours? Or are Sharans so dumb, so intellectually challenged that they only master speech, walking and writing etc after their 15th birthday? so those that don't turn out to be channelers do learn to walk and talk after they have been checked on channeling? Yes people, depicting Sharans like monkeys, grunting black brutes that can't even talk IS a stretch from incidental. Stretch doesn't even come close. It's a light years long shot from unintentional. Nice one, mister Sanderson. I was a loyal fan boy, and would have been defending WOT before i read AMOL. But enough is enough people. There is need to defend mister Sanderson. He had to give us these nice touches, he made his choice. Or was it in Robert Jordan's notes that the Sharan men just had to be depicted this way? It was just destined to manifest this way, right? The dark skinned folks i know can reason just as good as i do. I really think i'll cease my WOT promoting ways and let them discover this saga for themselves. Don't be mad at me, i didn't write AMOL. As for the WoT history lesson on why no contact was made with Shara. Nonsense. For the Dragon himself, a man so incredibly T'averen and powerful it would have been THE MOVE to make to go lift the veil of questions and secrecy and bring another nation in to the fold. That's what Rand decided to do very decidedly and succesfully. Also for two decades of WOT we've been drilled to death about Aes Sedai persistence and intel gathering. They just missed this one and couldn't voice their suspicions or fears to Rand eh? Nonsense. There is no WOT explanation, it was something the author intentionally decided to do. All factions ignored Shara by author's intent. If one denies this then Robert Jordan just forgot about Shara all those years or just didn't know what to do with Shara all those years and mister Sanderson just had to improvise something and AMOL is the best he came up with. Good to see all various nations and races united for Good and have the dark skinned folk siding with Evil. (so original!) Nice touch, mister Sanderson. PS Don't bend the story: Seanchans don't collar all people they collar and exploit channelers. That's disgusting enough, but at least RJ did not describe the entire Seanchan people as pathological liars that cut each others throat like putting out a cigarette. (and that being almost the only description he gave us of a people for years)!
  5. And of course there come the semantic, side-stepping and nitpicking defenses...... Sharans are the darkest skinned people. Seafolk are a kind of dark skinned people,but represent Islanders such as Polynesians, Indonesians, Hawaiians, Philipinos, Malaysians etc. Domani and Tairens are like mediterraneans. Saldaeans are Turkic/Slavic with a hint of Mongolian. (some would say Asiatic) I never said that after the cleansing channelers instantly lost the madness. It is obvious even in AMOL that incurred madness stays. Androl even saved Logain by playing to one of his captors madness. So why side-step the real issue? After the cleansing new recruits still came in at the Black Tower. So there were still men learning to channel for the first time or manifesting their talent. So where are the Sharan post-cleanse men? Where are they? THAT was my point. My post is still there. Also, i forgot to mention that Shara was not invited to Rand's Peace treaty with the rulers of the HUMAN nations. If you think the Aiel had a right to be insulted, just think of what is going to happen with Shara now the Last Battle is over. Remember after the opening of the Bore and after the Breaking how the Aiel were (wrongly) blamed and hated by being associated with Lews Therin, Breaker of the world, and some Forsaken? Remember them being raped, beaten, murdered, and enslaved in TSR? In 2 decades of WOT books no emissary or Aes Sedai/Asha'men team was ever sent there for diplomacy or investigation. If there was, correct me and also explain why no follow up investigation was sent after they did not come back. In a saga about MANKIND versus Evil the dark skinned nation had no autonomous role. Not invited to join the armies of humanity, not invited to sit at the peace treaty. If you are unable/unwilling to read between the lines...WOT stance=Shara is not a part of humanity. (the walking like apes bit was just a cherry on top) Good thing those dragon cannon have been invented. There do be plenty of resources and slaves to be had in Shara. And since they are not on the Dragon's Peace Contract they are legal to make war upon. Deja vu anyone? Besides, all the good folks back at home will remember they fought for the Shadow! I guess them Sharans got it coming eh? Thank you mister Sanderson, The Peaceful Warder - The Netherlands PS I could comment on how Tuon was depicted in AMOL as a woman, mother (to be) and a ruler compared to her light skinned peers. And Mat's and Min's depiction in relation to Tuon. Nice touch again! PPS Ofcourse i remembered RJ describing Sharans as liars, untrustworthy trading partners and unpleasant people that will kill eachother with no hesitation. Wanted to see if someone picked up on that, i have a witness now.
  6. After finishing the last book and finally ending a journey of over a decade i want to say it was nice to finally see black/afro-type male channelers and an African/Arabian nation included in the W.O.T. world. (Shara reads like Sahara or Sub-Sahara) Too bad these Afro/Arabian male channelers walked on all fours like apes and couldn't even talk like humans but hey, they finally got their place in the story! Count on R.J. to save the best for last! Also too bad this Afro/Arabian nation was the one and only nation to be totally on the side of Evil and fight amongst Trollocs, Myrddraal, Draghkar and Forsaken but hey, they got their place in the last battle. I would have liked to read something explaining how/why a nation ended up choosing the side of Evil, but i read nothing about mass compulsion or anything. Did read about some likely prophesy-trick but that was debunked when Demandred confronts Shendla about fighting amongst Trollocs and seeing who's side they are REALLY fighting on. Of course she is likely blinded by love but she is one individual and not an entire nation/race/people. I guess they all just really really love Demandred. (he is rather kind and endearing after all) It was a nice allegoric touch, having the darkest skinned people of the saga finally playing a mayor part by fighting for the Dark One. (why didn't i think of that, how original!) Did i mention it was cool the men moved like apes? Sure they went crazy, like some Asha'men went crazy but it was a nice touch having the Sharan channelers also walk like apes. I loved how even after the male part of the One Power was cleansed a long while ago the Sharan channelers still were all depicted as men that can't even speak human words or walk like humans. Must be that the Sharan Army command only took these guys to the Battle. Probably for some good tactical or psy-warfare reason. Too bad the book doesn't explain, but hey it added to atmosphere of the saga! I i think the author(s) mean us to understand the sane Sharan men would not so easily choose Evil.That must explain it. That's why there's no sane Sharan male channeler in the entire book that speaks and walks like a man. That must be it. Would have loved some chapters about a Sharan male channelers underground or resistance against Bao/Demandred but hey, i guess there was only limited time and paper in the series. Too bad that we couldn't get a real proper look at all inside Shara in these 2 decades of W.O.T. Too bad we never got much of Demandred's POV. But hey, at least R.J. made an effort here and there to trickle some information about the nature of Sharan people. I recall in one of the books they are said to be very truthful and nice to trade with, pleasant people. (Correct me if that is not what RJ wrote about them) It was all a very pleasant read, A Memory of Light was, the only moment i felt a bit uncomfortable was when Mat or another hero remarked about a tactic or an event and said something like: If they are killing Sharans and Trollocs it's good! Or something like that sentiment. That was quite an awkward promotion/approval of slaughter. Not like Dumai's Wells were our heroes express regret and revolt at the slaughter of the brave but misguided Shaido. Not one word of regret or sorrow for the Sharan soldiers in the entire book. Nothing like what Tolkien wrote and Faramir asked of the Haradrim/Easterlings he had to fight in Lord of The Rings. Those words Tolkien wrote were quite moving and true. But no such remarks of pity or even asking "why" for the Sharans in this book. (Even Lanfear got a few lines of pity) Well....I guess them Sharans had it coming eh? Thank you mister Sanderson, The Pacifist Warder - The Netherlands PS I've been a major fanboy since 2001 and read most of the saga thrice or twice. Also bought books for friends and colleagues to spread the saga. So far i haven't shared it with "certain" people as they were busy reading Feist, Martin and Herbert Junior and now i've read the end i guess i'll leave it this way. Something tells me it's better they don't connect me to this saga.
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