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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

matt123

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  1. I know this is a bit late to be throwing out theories, but something made me think about this again recently and I think I have an answer that might make sense, and no, it is none of the choices offered in the poll... The Wheel of Time series was completed several years ago at this point, the Companion is out, and none of them explain who she is. There is unlikely to ever be any outrigger novel published, nevermind, any outrigger novel that will explain who she is. I think we just have to accept that there will never be anything published that will explain who she is. So the question that burns in my mind, is WHY was this something that Brandon Sanderson could not answer. None of the proposed theories for who she is, AFAIK, explain this strange restriction. The odd thing is, there are 3 restrictions, (1) Who Nakomi was, (2) How Rand lit the pipe at the end of the series, and (3) How Rand and Moridin swapped bodies. With regard to how the pipe lit, Brandon himself does not know that as he has said. This leads me to think he does know or has an inkling the answer to one or two of the other "mysteries." Regarding lighting the pipe, it is possible that RJ never told anyone how that happens, also he may never have fully formulated how it works, but wanted it to be there, so he just left it as a mystery. It does work as a wonderful ending, and the lack of the reader comprehending how Rand is able to manipulate reality without channeling is food for fodder, rather than a major letdown. Regarding the body-swap, this one I suspect BS knows what is going on... I also suspect on this one, the reason he can't explain is related to the same reason he can't explain who Nakomi is... So back to the real question here, who is Nakomi? I think the only answer that makes sense is that Nakomi is Harriet, RJ's wife. I suspect the idea for the body swap was hers, and when RJ formulated the end the way it appears in the books, he decided rather than concocting some explanation for how the body swap worked, he would just have Nakomi (i.e. Harriet) show up and somehow provide encouragement. I think that for whatever reason, Harriet did not want anyone to know Nakomi is her, and wanted to keep it private, so to do so, it kind of required not being able to answer how the body swap is done (not that there necessarily is an explanation formulated ever by RJ), which would have led to the revelation that Nakomi is Harriet. Just to be clear, I think the pipe question is unrelated to the body-swap and Nakomi, rather in the end it was just a separate mystery that RJ felt needed no explaining.
  2. It is like int ToM Mat had to go rescue Moraine because he needed to lose his eye and we needed to bring Moraine back because it was so expected and would have been a major let down if it did not happen. Then she comes back and her job is to quote prophecies? It is just not well written. Breaking the seals is a major deal and something that has to happen. The whole history going back to the breaking is that the women and men Aes Sedai could not agree with each other. Here also I can see the Aes Sedai being dead set convinced that breaking the seals is absolutely the worst thing that can be done that they will do anything to prevent it from happening. Moraine's job is to convince them that they should break the seals. She is the only person who can conceivably do this, possibly tied to knowledge she gained during her imprisonment. The scene just needed to be brought out better and in more detail. I think this whole book suffers from lack of filling out scenes with sufficient details to make them more convincing. This of course is tied to the fact that BS & Harriet wanted to be able to complete this series and not have to write another book or two.
  3. I think for Sanderson or anyone else to finish it the way Robert Jordan would have (assuming they could have mimicked his writing style correctly) would have required expanding the final 3 books into several more. BS has his own ideas and books he wants to write and as exciting as it is for him to write the ending of the WOT he must have felt a desire to wrap it up and move on. I just think by the time he got to AMOL and got heavy into it he realized that he would just have to cut out all the tangents and wrap things up with a lack of the subtlety that RJ excelled at. I don't blame BS for this as he was left with a monumental task here and one that required much more than anyone realized. I am sure the writing experience here will help craft the Stormlight Archive into a better series as BS will have a better understanding of the problems wrapping up a long series. Robert Jordan writing the WOT took lots of time to bring out things that are in the end unimportant. For example the whole Faile captured and Shaido archs are not relevant in the end, however for the development of the characters it served a useful purpose. It did help bring the black tower into the books and did help create confusion as to whose side the black tower was on (later on with all the issues with the Black Tower there is always that thought that they did help the side of light here). It also helped bring out Perrin's rise to leadership and the changes he went through. After reading through these, despite my general dislike for all the wasted time, you did come out with a very strong sense of the characters (unfortunately at the expense of the story). But if you consider the treatment the Shaido got versus Padain Fain you see the differences and maybe understand why BS did not follow RJ's method. The end of the Shaido and their removal from the book is complex and drawn out through many twists and it actually feels natural (despite it taking too many pages). The end of Fain is a one punch knockout. He shows up with his mists kills some people, tries killing Mat who feigns dead and then goes and kills Fain without any fanfare, oh and Mat does not take the dagger. For RJ to write this it would have taken a hundred pages or so. Ultimately it comes down to is that the resolution for Fain given the build-up should have been much more drawn out and more involved, but BS needed to finish the series so he had to consider Fain for his approach to writing, which is that Fain never would have been given the same amount of build-up and characterization that RJ gave him, and therefore for BS the way to deal with Fain is a simple killing him off with a minor twist that we thought Fain had gotten the better of Mat first. I think you have to put yourself in BS's shoes. BS got to read the end before he wrote the final 3 books. He knew that Fain was unimportant for the end, yet he knew he had to put Fain in there as he was an integral part of the books till know. When it finally came time to write Fain, BS was looking at the size of the book and realized that it was going to be impossible to write him (consider this in aggregate for all the unsatisfactory plot conclusions) in sufficient detail and keep it down to one final book. As such he was forced to decide that this character was going to not get the detail that the readers expected. I would say this applies for Gawyn as well (all he was is a plot device to get Egwene mad enough to fight full out). His end is pretty unceremonious and again to write him a much more detailed role would have expanded the book unnecessarily. Every time I post a comment my responses get so long winded! I just think that if the final books were written the way RJ writes, instead of 3 books it would have been 10. There is no way BS was going to delve that deep into RJ's soul and drag this out that long. I generally thought the 3 books BS wrote had a much faster pace then RJ's did, which I think is a good thing. I just think that by RJ dragging things out and spinning so many subplots we all got spoiled and expected resounding conclusions to each one. When it actually came down to it, I just think BS said no way and he focused on trying to wrap up loss ends (mostly) and not focus so much on keeping to RJ's style. Did he do a perfect job, absolutely not, but he did bring the books to an end. There are technical questions, which hopefully an encyclopedia will be created one day to help answer (like who the heck is Nakomi! And what is the story with the Voice, and how did Rand switch bodies, and what was the thing with him lighting the pipe with thought, and where did the Nym come from and do they come back ever, and how or why was Callandor ever made in the first place. And what was Demandred's sa'angrael and how did he get bonded to it and some more details about Shara and their prophecies and how Demandred took over. Also what was Luc/Slayer, why can't darkspawn go through gateways, do the ways still exist and are they still dangerous, was the vision in Rhudiean showing the future set by Nakomi or something about else. What was with Verin's letters and just so many more unanswered questions).
  4. Are you claiming that Lanfear was "forced" to drill into the Bore and that this was the "right direction"? Yes, according to that Herid Fel and RJ quotes provided by Suttree that is exactly what happened: I couldn't find anything in either quote that suggested that the Pattern forced Lanfear to drill into the DO's bore. That decision was her choice...which flies directly into the quoted claim that the Pattern doesn't allow people to make "important decisions". I doubt Lanfear or anyone else was forced to drill into the DO's bore. I think the drilling of that bore is the end of the age of legends, which could happen at any time. I just think at the end of the age of legends when they get too advanced it is inevitable that someone will look for a new source of power and will drill the bore. To compare it to our world, it was kind of inevitable that the atom bomb would be discovered once scientific knowledge advanced enough. If WWII would not have happened the bomb would have been discovered a few years later at most, it is just inevitable.
  5. 1) They were from Hinderstrap, the town where the people killed each other (and anyone in the town after sundown) at night only to find that at dawn they woke back up in their beds. I would REALLY like to know if their town reverted back to normal once the Bore was sealed, I like to hope the pattern fixes itself in that regard. 2) The transfer happened in the tent, There is a line (from memory) that said that one body was dying and it was such a shame that it was the dragon and not the forsaken. Moridin was likely destroyed when so much of the TP was channelled through him and Callandor leaving him as an empty vessel. As an empty vessel, I don't think he would have been capable of motor function. Regarding 2 it is just unsatisfactory. Everyone else who channels too much is either burnt out or killed. If Moridin's soul was burnt but his body survived it should have been more explicitly pointed out. I actually think it is possible that Rand healed his body and actually transferred his wounds to Moridin through the link, and at the same time was able to physically change the appearances, through his power to will the world as he wants (lighting the impossible pipe). As a result of the taint of the wounds Moridin now slowly died and Rand slowly got better. Possibly the complete healing from the wounds that Rand transferred to Moridin was not able to be done via one power (there is precedent that the one power cannot heal the wounds from the dark one and from Fain). I think those wounds were enough that even with the removal of the dark one and the killing of fain the body was too past the point of ever being healed by regular one power use. The one clue to this is the saa in Rand is dragon fang shaped and in one eye and Cadsuane has a strange thought how looking at the eyes made her suspect that the dead body was not Rand. Now if the dead body had lots of saa like Moridin this makes sense that Cadsuane saw this and realized the body was not Rand's, which was confirmed when she saw Rand leaving (it was dark so she could not have seen Rand's eye then so most likely it was the corpse's eye she saw). Now the 'proof' to my thought that Rand transferred wounds is that if they had switched souls I don't think the dead body would have had saa, hence Cadsuane's thought would not make sense, by elimination the other choice is he did something impossible and willed the body as he wanted them. Perhaps this is the point with showing the impossible pipe to show that Rand has powers to physically change things according to his will. Doubtful that Cads know what a saa is.She only learned what the True Power is very late into the last book. I did think of that and was not sure how she would know. Although if she did see the body and saw the saa she might have quickly surmised it was something alien and suspected it was not Rand's body
  6. 1) They were from Hinderstrap, the town where the people killed each other (and anyone in the town after sundown) at night only to find that at dawn they woke back up in their beds. I would REALLY like to know if their town reverted back to normal once the Bore was sealed, I like to hope the pattern fixes itself in that regard. 2) The transfer happened in the tent, There is a line (from memory) that said that one body was dying and it was such a shame that it was the dragon and not the forsaken. Moridin was likely destroyed when so much of the TP was channelled through him and Callandor leaving him as an empty vessel. As an empty vessel, I don't think he would have been capable of motor function. Regarding 2 it is just unsatisfactory. Everyone else who channels too much is either burnt out or killed. If Moridin's soul was burnt but his body survived it should have been more explicitly pointed out. I actually think it is possible that Rand healed his body and actually transferred his wounds to Moridin through the link, and at the same time was able to physically change the appearances, through his power to will the world as he wants (lighting the impossible pipe). As a result of the taint of the wounds Moridin now slowly died and Rand slowly got better. Possibly the complete healing from the wounds that Rand transferred to Moridin was not able to be done via one power (there is precedent that the one power cannot heal the wounds from the dark one and from Fain). I think those wounds were enough that even with the removal of the dark one and the killing of fain the body was too past the point of ever being healed by regular one power use. The one clue to this is the saa in Rand is dragon fang shaped and in one eye and Cadsuane has a strange thought how looking at the eyes made her suspect that the dead body was not Rand. Now if the dead body had lots of saa like Moridin this makes sense that Cadsuane saw this and realized the body was not Rand's, which was confirmed when she saw Rand leaving (it was dark so she could not have seen Rand's eye then so most likely it was the corpse's eye she saw). Now the 'proof' to my thought that Rand transferred wounds is that if they had switched souls I don't think the dead body would have had saa, hence Cadsuane's thought would not make sense, by elimination the other choice is he did something impossible and willed the body as he wanted them. Perhaps this is the point with showing the impossible pipe to show that Rand has powers to physically change things according to his will.
  7. from the future? She met nakomi before knowing about her children Also Rand seems to meet Nakomi after leaving the cave, which does not tie well into this theory as why would she have been there or known what Rand needed to do.
  8. I doubt it, but it is possible. The training she is about to go through will change her and probably remove any thoughts of being great from her mind. Further her sul'daam may force her to reveal all her secrets and teach them to all the others, which eventually will make her powers no better than anyone else. I also think that without the dark one and the true power available her ability to be powerful will be greatly diminished. She won't be able to find as many dark friends to join her as there is no great lord promising reward, only Mogheidin a member of the forsaken who as a group were defeated is just not that tempting anymore. If anything the finale here with her thinking about how she was going to be so grand with her plans simply ending by having an adam snapped around her neck just shows how weak she really is in this new age.
  9. The Tinkers split from the Aiel in violation of their duty to find the song. Even after the Aiel eventually leave the way of the leaf and face reality (with the wise one's having to be reminded of their past) the Tinkers still think they are doing the right thing by sticking to the way of the leaf. In AMOL the Tinkers way seems pathetic in the exchange between some tinker man and his wife, where his wife (seemingly indicative of typical tinker thinking) would rather live under the shadow then change their ways. Kind of like how the gaishan, think they are being honorable by not fighting when they should be. In a way the Aiel and their cousins the Tinkers share this extreme system of honor that without being tempered by a duty that is stronger then their honor will cause them to act wrongly. In any case the Tinkers were never supposed to be looking for the song in the first place and it would be strange if the pattern would cause that they should gain the ability to sing in the end. In a way the Tinkers truly follow the way of the leaf they are blown this way and that, yet the pattern needs people who will try to make the world different. Back in the age of legends when war was unknown the way of the leaf was a way to live and made sense for people who would sing the growing songs, but in this age it is just out of place. Even the Ogier's go to war and fight furiously. The Ogier's do discover growing songs in the process, by none other than Loial who is 'hasty' and leads the Ogier to battle. Giving the song to people who choose wrong and did not offer to fight when needed would just be wrong. I think part of the problem many of us have with these books is that by having a different author finishing, perhaps some of the subtleties that RJ wanted to bring out and worked so hard for were not brought out well. I think also AMOL should have been expanded perhaps, but it was necessary for BS to wrap things up so several things were not brought out so well. For example, the part with Shara coming into the battle should have been preceded with a chapter or two of Demandred musing over how he converted Shara to his cause. It should have spoken about his Sa'angrael that he has and it should have given a stronger background to his battleground madness with yelling for Rand. It is just too big of a thing to add in the last battle without giving something more. Also BS did not do well with conveying the amount of people involved with the last battle. At some point I feel as if I have no clue how many people are alive or dead and am just getting confused where all these groups still have warriors left. It is like a giant mulching machine where you see the wood getting mulched but you have no clue what size the pile of wood is. Also the Seanchean, seem relatively unscathed through this whole battle, which just does not make that much sense. Tuon had to have understood that the fight with Mat was a ploy yet she needs Min to force her into going back, it is so contradictory and does not add up. Then the thing with the glory of Logain is mostly a bust. He does not perform any great power feats. All he does is make a choice that the other Asha'men should have just made without him. They should not have supported him looking for his sa'angrael when they knew people needed saving. Yes they have some loyalty to Logain, but when did they become mindless followers of his? Logain needed a fight with a forsaken at the end (could have been Moghedien) where he shouts "you shall not pass" while defending the refugees. Seeing this and the terrible battle he undergoes (without the aid of the sa'angrael which he stopped looking for to defend the refugees) the people are awed by him and see the goodness of the asah'man. In the end his giving up power to do what is right is his true glory (kind of like the Rand theme with him destroying the choedan kaal as he realizes that just great power is not the way to win) and people revere him as a result. One more thing kind of shoved in is Min becoming truthspeaker. It is just too sudden and next thing you know she is dressed up in Seanchan clothing. RJ would have been more subtle I think if given the chance. Oh, of course there is that whole thing with the voice in his head, which must be the creator as it is not the dark one and per the voice in the Eye of the World it is the creator. And then there is that Nakomi woman who shows up again at the time Rand leaves the cave saying something to Rand about how he is doing it right. Kind of confuses the heck out of any prior theories given for Nakomi before. Nothing I can think of or read actually makes any sense in explaining her. She is probably not Verin as her response to Aviendha on which sept she is from makes no sense. She is not Aviendha from the future as her interaction with Rand makes no sense then. She is not the creator as the creator speaks in Rand's head, so to have a second way of contacting Rand at the end is just not consistent. Just one thought I do have is that the dark one is locked up outside the pattern but does exist to give people the ability to have free will to choose what is right. The creator is not locked up and presumably could directly affect the world but does not to allow the people free choice. The dragon is the one who has to decide if he kills the dark one or allows the dark one to remake the world, which in both cases removes free choice, or when he realizes that the dark one is an essential part of the world he chooses to reforge the barrier which allows people free choice yet removes the taint that their destructive bad choice caused. What I am getting at is that although the creator does not directly interfere with the world perhaps he does cause there to be 'bubbles' that can cause effects on the world. I think without seeing RJ's or BS's notes on this the speculation can be endless. Perhaps this should have been more fleshed out as it just leads to confusion in the end (Tom Bombadil in Tolkein is partly explained as being some ancient entity that is different, which is enough to accept that it is just part of Tolkein's world without having to fully understand him). By not giving any explanation for Nakomi or giving Nakomi any defining attributes, other then she knows more than she should and is present at two unique occasions, it is just very confusing and too open for interpretation. What I am confused further about is that the book does not seem to need her to move the plot. Aviendha could have mused on these things herself without Nakomi's prompting. It is like she is stuck in there and does not give misdirection and yet really adds nothing to the story. Why would BS or RJ add a figure who is so strange to the story if it has no place in the rest of the story and does not add anything? Hence, I must conclude that possibly BS was intending to write Nakomi a bigger piece in AMOL but then due to time and space had to leave her out, but managed to stick her in at the end for one sentence to give some more meaning to her. I guess throughout the series there are a number of people and plots that just fizzle out and turn out to be not important to the final story and would probably have been better having been left out. Possibly in such a big series this is inevitable as different ideas that in one book seem important suddenly become problematic later on and as such have to be written out and wrapped up in a way that takes away from the main plot (i.e. had the whole series been outlined better from start to finish it would have been easier to drop unimportant or confusing plots). In a way all these myriad plots kind of get you expecting at times something more, despite that something more being unrealistic to achieve. Perhaps BS was a little blunt in wrapping up various plots and RJ would have done a better job. Possibly RJ would have made the final 3 books into a piece of work 10 times as long due to his constantly expanding world building. Yes, he said he would finish it in one book, but you have to recall that this was initially conceived of as a trilogy and ended up being 14 books. I hardly think RJ could be taken seriously, although he probably meant it seriously. I think also that BS said he left the end as much as possible the way RJ wrote it. I understand him wanting to leave the author's conclusion intact, it could be though that the end RJ wrote was never meant as RJ's final draft and RJ would have expanded on it to bring out in finer details various points. Yes, the ending is good and is right, but at the same time it is rough and not as refined as I would have liked. It just cries for stronger resolution of so many things and they are just not given. I personally liked the end of Tolkien's work the Lord of the Rings as he does make the effort to wrap things up. He at least leaves you with a strong glimpse of how each major character goes on to live and he does not rush and end things off anti-climatic (a la Moghedien). I think Mat and Tuon needed a better ending. Maybe a sentence after their comments about her killing him and he asking her if she likes to dice, with a fond thought from Mat about how playing dice with jack o shadows was never going to be as fun as living with Tuon. Also, the epilogue could have mentioned the births of Rand's babies in the subsequent months, showing that life is going back to normal and bringing out their unusual abilities, which would allow for a conclusion to the pregnancy visions (by them having babies) and setting up a stable future with many interesting things to come. I don't know maybe these long epics just get to me at the end when the endings although great just leave too many things unanswered.
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