One interesting thing I saw Dom post over at TL is the possibility of a Nakomi/Tigraine/Calian link:

 

It's an interesting detail in itself that RJ chose to make this pair appear masked in their archetypal appearances. It's easy to suggest that Calian and Shivan either aren't what people think they are when they are alive or maybe that their nature and role as instruments/agents in Prophecies remains mostly hidden from humanity (Tigraine proclaiming "I am the Maiden and Chooser, here to choose my mate and give birth to the man who will decide to end this Age and maybe all Ages while my brother will be there in position at the end if the Dragon needs to be killed wouldn't exactly go well with the populace...), that they go under the radar, or appear under more than one identities, both of which would fit the profiles of Tigraine and Luc, public figures of Andor who actually both played an occult role none have fully put together, one as part of Slayer (occulted) and the other as Shaiel (largely occulted). Shaiel made the choice to follow Gitara's foretelling and chose a lover in Janduin and gave birth, in self-sacrifice, to humanity's "choice", incarnated in Rand, following prophecy. Tigraine's choices set in motion the "beginning of the end of the Age", the last 20 years of the cycle, while Luc played his part all the way to the very last minutes of the Age. Luc also hunted down Janduin (and killed him, preventing him from becoming a Red Veil - not sure it's relevant, but I point it out, and preventing him from pre-uniting part of the Aiel, maybe starting a war among the clans) and hunted down Rand to the Pit of Doom, bringing in his throes Lanfear who manipulated him and Perrin who hunted him with the wolves, who killed both the Slayer/Hunter and Moonhunter, preventing them from killing Rand who had made the right choice, in the very last moments of "the Third Age" and very first of the Fourth.

 

It works even better if Calian/Tigraine returns as Nakomi to encourage Rand's "death and rebirth". Tigraine's choices, and Luc's Hunt also set in motion events that lead to Elayne taking the throne of Andor down the line, while setting Elaida on her path to take the Amyrlin Seat, not to mention the foretelling about Tigraine/Luc guided Tar Valon (Gitara and Tamra)and the confirmation it had been partly fulfilled with Rand's birth is tied to Moiraine's mission. For Luc, there is then the Dark Prophecy, heralding his final role with Lanfear in AMOL.

 

None of that is of course fully conclusive, but Tigraine and Luc certainly could fit the names of "The Chooser" and "The Hunter", while as for their archetypes it's harder to tell because Jordan never gave us terribly good clues to define them, except they worked as "heralds", thus most likely forerunners of the end of the Age and the birth of the new (which makes it very unlikely they're Elayne's twins, born after the Age already started... no one would really be in the mood to deny the LB marked the start of a new Age... not that it would matter anyway since the Age itself has begun whether humans acknowledge it or not.. it was to mark the beginning of the end with Rand's birth that was important to key individuals.e), they are brother and sister (literally or not) and we might surmise they fulfill their mission one way or another covertly/masked, so maybe they're heralds that go mostly unnoticed, more like forerunners than horn sounders... It sounds to me like those two Heralds are basically like incarnated Prophecy, through which direct agency The Wheel acts to make the Age spiral directly to its end first (by bringing the rebirth of the Dragon through Calian, and setting Shivan on his Hunt), then the new one comes - and Slayer/Tigraine do fit this part (even more if Nakomi is truly Tigraine).

 

I quite liked this at first, but I think there was one important thing missing when this was written up. Yes, they may be seen as "heralds" and I can certainly see how this was put together and how these conclusions were reached, but Heroes of the Horn are born into the world, not just come back as someone else. The only instance where a HotH wasn't born into the world was when Birgitte was forcefully removed from tel'aran'rhiod. Now, Mat remembers seeing Calian and Shivan at Falme after blowing the Horn when he is speaking with Birgitte in A Crown of Swords. So this implies that they had not been spun out by the wheel yet which means that they could not physically be Tigraine/Nakomi and Slayer/Luc.

Calian and Shivan would not have appeared at Falme when Mat blew the Horn if they were indeed Tigraine and Luc as they would have had to be born many years prior for this to be the case. Another thing I thought was that maybe Tigraine/Calian became a HotH by dying on Dragonmount after giving birth to the potential saviour of the world and this is why she appeared at Falme, but then this wouldn't apply to Luc as he is (I am presuming) alive and well (sort of) while the whole Falme thing is going on where both Calian and Shivan appeared together.

I may be WAY off with this so feel free to let me know if there's any massive holes in what I'm saying, just offering my thoughts! :)

It's nice to see that TSR, FoH and LoC are a lot of people's top 3, as they're definitely mine!

So is naming your band something like Myrddraal or Aes Sedai not copyright infringement?

Because if not, I would LOVE to call my project Karaethon

My Xbox 360 Gamertag is Arrannnnn.

Imaginitive, I know

 

It wasn't the dark ones voice.

Do we have a quote on that that I'm unaware of? 

 

I don't think it is, either. The Dark One is surprised by Rand's appearance due to the ter'angreal he was carrying. And this is AFTER the voice says "IT IS TIME. LET THE TASK BE UNDERTAKEN." I'd just find it a little odd if he was surprised even though he'd just spoken to Rand directly.

I don't get how so many people are confused about the all caps voice. It's only seen a few times in the series. 

 

It's the dark one.

 

It gets confusing - because rand also 'talks' like that while outside the pattern, but - it's just the dark one.

 

RJ's quotes collaborate and reinforce that. 

I don't believe it is the Dark One. In AMOL, the voice speaks before Rand goes into Shayol Ghul, so why would he be surprised that Rand is there when he enters the cave? Although I wouldn't mind seeing these quotes that you speak of :)

He heard that voice in EotW too, and I also thought it may have been Creator, but RJ's own words leads me to believe that it's not. Also, I'm not sure if Moiraine heard the voice in AMoL too? I seem to remember Moiraine being surprised when Rand heard the voice.

Robert Jordan has explained time and time again that the Creator does not interfere with the Pattern. I don't think he'd ever go back on that. Nor would he lie about it just to throw us off.

 

The concept for Nakomi the character came from something Brandon found "deep in the notes". Her existence was not plotted by RJ.  Luckers said this in the first couple posts...

1. Her existence was not something RJ plotted for this book but something based on something Brandon found 'deep in the notes'. Which leads us to two.

2. Brandon has disavowed using the notes--rather, when he needs something, he goes and asks Maria, who does the research.

3. She didn't really do anything. Or rather, she did nothing that wouldn't have occurred just as easily without her presence.

Thanks for clearing that up, Suttree! It's been a while since I read the first few posts so I totally forgot about that. So when you say that RJ didn't plot her for the book, does that mean that it wasn't RJ who incorporated her into Rand's 'exiting the mountain' scene? Because I was under the impression that RJ wrote the whole epilogue apart from Cadsuane's POV.

Was the Aiel woman outside the cave in the epilogue RJ or BS? That could be part of why BS added her in ToM

The epilogue is all RJ apart from Cadsuane, I believe. I can't remember exactly how it went down, but I believe Brandon needed a reason for her to be there, so he had Maria dig out something he could use from RJ's notes. This is what I remember from what I've heard anyways, not sure if i've quoted it exactly right or not!

I still think we'll be given a little more insight in the Encyclopedia. I can live without knowing how Rand lit the bloody pipe, but this whole Nakomi thing is driving me crazy!

Eh not 100% quote but I think Terez has it in database because I told her when he told me  but point two is almost word for word. I guess I better explain more. During the Q and A he said that there was a hint about Nakomi in AMoL so my question to him when I got to signing table was if the hint that he mentioned was when Bair (I think?) is talking to Aviendha early on in AMoL and she mentions Nakomi. He said that he couldn't tell but that what he would say was that she's in series for a reason and that she wasn't something he put in as some random person that was only there to be questioned by fans for years.That she was actually in there for a reason so I took it to be what I think many of us believe; he got indication in the notes that someone like Nakomi (prob named by Brandon) would fit in well near Tarmon Gai'don.

Thing is, all Bair (maybe Amys, I can't remember) says about Nakomi is that it's an ancient name. I'm not sure how old that name would have to be for it to be classed as "ancient" though. The only ancient Aiel we know of are Rand's ancestors when he walks through the glass columns in Rhuidean...

I will never understand what Egwene saw in Gawyn. Never.

I quite like what Rand and Min have going on though, seems pretty genuine.

I think one reason for not telling us is that it's probably going to be included in the encyclopedia. There's supposedly going to be a lot of info in there which wasn't even in the books, especially concerning AMoL.

Personally, I'm not sure what to think of her. The coals on the fire and the food that randomly appears seems pretty similar to what Rand does with his pipe, possibly just willing them into existence. So this could mean that she's a being similar to Rand, or that Aviendha was in T'A'R and Nakomi is a dreamwalker. She did close her eyes and relax after all.

As for her performing the bodyswap, I'm not sure that she performed the actual action. Rand hears her say "Yes, that's good. That is what you need to do." Now we know Nakomi can't channel, unless she was masking the ability from Aviendha, because the actual sentence stating this was a bit too straight forward and matter of fact for my liking. But yeah, she can't channel so far as we know, so it's not like she could have shown anyone a weave of how to perform the bodyswap, so what exactly was she saying and who was she saying it to? But thinking on it, if she was masking her ability she would have just performed the task herself. How was the bodyswap even possible in the first place since the only evidence we've seen of an actual bodyswap was performed by the Dark One? I wonder if there are any clues in the scenes where we first see Osan'gar and Aran'gar, or maybe Cyndane.

The only thing that slightly bothers me is the fact that the only reason she is in the series is because of something he found deep within Jordan's notes. This leads me to believe that the note itself wasn't that important and that she was added kind of as an afterthought. I just think that our answer as to who she is and what she actually does is going to be a lot less spectacular than we're making it out to be.

There's a lot of conflicting points and not enough information surrounding her character so it's very difficult to draw any logical conclusions.

This is beautiful.

Funny that my first post on Dragonmount is on the last book in the series, but here it goes. I basically thought A Memory of Light falls somewhere in the middle of best and worst books in the series. I thought that standing on its own it was an entertaining book but in the scope of the series it was lacking. It is more fun to be a critic then to be positive so here is what I thought was wrong with the book/conclusion to the series:

 

1. I felt like Jordan and perhaps Sanderson as well, took far to long to conclude many of the plot threads in the series. As a result I felt MoL was rushed in trying to close the plot threads and some of them didn't conclude very well or were not addressed at all. I know the age old criticism of Jordan's writing was too much plot and trivial details and not enough action, but I felt that MoL was to much action and not enough plot. I feel that the Last battle could have been stretched between Tom and MoL to allow for more of a plot driven story in MoL.

2. What was the point of bringing Moraine back? The prophecy states that she has to be present at the last battle in order for the Light to succeed but she basically just stands around and does nothing and ends up not really playing an important role in the book at all. I mean it was done so poorly that even the other character's seem to hardly acknowledge that a previously thought dead major player was still alive.

3. What was the point of Padan Fain? He was built up to be one of the main antagonists of the series and we basically got a two paragraph conclusion to that story arc. 

4. I thought it was dumb that either Sanderson or Jordan (who knows?), decided that Mat was suddenly not bound to the horn after all. Also I would have liked to seen the mystery of his past lives revealed. 

5. Logain and Taim should have battled each other, it was something alluded to and anticipated and it totally didn't happen,

6.Lanfear, Moghiedien, and Mordin essentially played no roles throughout the book and should have met more satisfying and climatic ends. Again what was the point of bringing Lanfear back when in the end she basically didn't add anything to the story.

7. The battle between Rand and the DO was mediocre at best, could have been much more climatic. 

 

On the other hand I was pleased with how Demanded was addressed, I thought he was a fitting major antagonist in the book and was pleased to see who his hidden identity was (although I thought it was going to be a character we were familiar with who appeared to be strongly on the side of the light, thus leading to an ultimate betrayal.) None the less I though he was done well and I like how he met his end. 

 

In the end I am satisfied but not necessarily thrilled with the conclusion to WoT, but I suppose the wheel weaves and the wheel wills. 

Mat wasn't "suddenly not bound to the horn". He hasn't been bound to it since Fires of Heaven, when Rahvin's lightnings killed him and then Rand's balefire brought him back to life.

I agree with a lot of the plots being over too quickly. I felt there could have been another book. However, I did enjoy how the main arcs ended.

I really liked Alivia's roll in Rands death because for the ENTIRE TIME we've been imagining all of these terrible ways that she would betray him or really bungle things at the wrong moment and in the end it just turned out she'd get him some money. HAH! Totally had us going! Sorry for mistrusting you the whole time Alivia!

This was awesome too, I really liked how some of Min's viewings were made to seem insanely important but in the end it was just a minor thing! Another example, although not so minor, was Logain's glory. He just ended up saving some children and becoming a protector, rather than the conquerer that we first heard him to be.

"Humankind is made for uncertainty, struggle, choice and change." - Amys.

I loved this book.

I think we can all say right now that Lan is the most badass character from any book/film/game ever? :P

Very disappointed. I'm sure Sanderson did his best (and his own books might be good, I don't know), but reading the last few books by him has been like reading shoddy fan fiction. The charachters are not themselves anymore, every other sentence feels wrong. This book is all over the place. It just feels unfinished and the dialogue is awful.

 

And the ending, I wanted something more.  More details of what happened afterwards  (right after and in the future). I have been following the series since 97, so I'm very frustrated that RJ couldn't finish his work.

 

RJ created an amazing world and this series deserved a better ending. 

But the thing is... The ending IS RJ's work!

that is absolutely beautiful.

 

now i just need to figure out how to order the book with that specific cover

Shouldn't you just be able to ship a copy over from Amazon.co.uk?

I've ordered items from American websites with absolutely no trouble before, and even the P+P hasn't been too bad.

This band are amazing, Casey Crescenzo writes amazing music.