"It is, in many ways, the final breath of the Book Age of the franchise."

*manly weeping*

Not sure why the previous looks like a reply to stipe... just testing.

Edit: Ahh, Dragonmount, how we love your quirks :)

Awesome, you two!! Your work deserves many awards.

.., he fights for inevitability. 

Why do you resist, Mr. Anderson?

I think that a turned Ishamael makes sense, and would explain how he

had the cojones to declare for the Shadow while standing in the Hall of Servants. However, the limit on knowledge of the 13x13 wasn't limited, unless the Mistress of Novices has access, because it is she who revealed that to

Egwene during her Testing. (It was Sheriam, wasn't it? I have no sources atm).

"Now clash away! Bash away! Smash away all!"

This just became a yearly tradition. My hat off to you, sir, and a sweeping bow to follow.

Oh, it saddens me to whole-heartedly agree with anyone, given my contrary nature, but in this I have to.

I have never accepted Alivia, and have always found her suspicious. Up until Sem was revealed, I thought the former damane might have been she, due to her incredible strength (after all, Sem is brilliant at mental manipulation, so memories of 400 years should be easy to plant). Additionally, my massive, secret, love-affair with Min means that if she doesn't trust someone, then I back her up. :)

Well reasoned, and (to me) unassailable.

... would kinda be like mat pulling a ray-gun out of his hat...

Well, why not?

to the two previous posts, I think both theories have been discussed often, and the general consensus is either "no way", or "I hope not".

If the Randland is supposed to be our world in the future/past, we can look at out own mythologies to support Rand not becoming the Creator, or Fain the DO. In all of our myths, the gods come first, then the men. this means that a man cannot become the Creator, as he is already created. Question - If Rand has to become Creator because Fain becomes DO, what happens to previous Creator?

(Side Note - Piers Anthony, Incarnations of Immortalilty gives an interesting look at men assuming the mantles of deities)

As for Rand and Moridin switching sides, I highly doubt it would happen as you theorize, Drakinora. However, as per my previous posts, I DO believe that they can switch sides, just not now. Perhaps before VoG and the epiphany would have been the best time. Also as posted, I do not believe the DO can simply 'claim' a soul that dies, especially ta'veren Heroes. (Many theories on this).

So, he could easily keep it from the Dark One, because he's playing the Shadow's side--only knowing it will be exactly what the Light needs to win.

 

But the Light never wins. It only achieves stalemate. The DO can't be destroyed, any more than every man could be. The world would't survive either loss. No Lord of the Grave equals no grave. Nothing dies.

To follow Elan's reasoning, it matches something else I too believe: If the ultimate goal of human reincarnation (if real, of course) is to join with the source of all things, then that indicates a loss of individuality, the "I" subsumed into the "All". In a way, Elan is on the side of ego - He does NOT want to have his role chosen again and again by the wheel. His logic leads him to the decision to try to break out of the cycle by breaking the cycle itself.

Theory - OP/TP is the pool of souls that all Non-heroes are subsumed into after death. Logic - Conservation of energy. OP/TP must have a source, and as Moiraine says, "no more than a miller's wheel uses up the river". The terminology is even the same - Threads of lives, threads of power. Weaving the pattern of an Age, weaving intricate tapestries and sending them forth.

If Elan and Lews Therin had does this time and time again, thousands of times, does this not point out that the DO has a place for his "heroes" to rest? Lore says all souls are reborn to a degree, (Semirhage), but only the Heroes are reborn for specific purposes each time around. If the Heroes represent the champions of Light, where is the Balance Mashi points out?

Mashi, we assume the balance working for the Light, but the wheel is neither good nor evil. Recall Perrin's discomfort at learning this (mixing the finest steel with bad tin, or something to that effect; EotW). I truly belive Elan is working towards the breaking of the wheel. Perhaps his constant flip-flopping and pensiveness comes from his knowledge of the past spins of the wheel. If Rand has some sort of Epiphany, can not Elan. He might have tapped into his past lives, like Rand or even Birgitte. Sooo... he says "Kill Rand", then after sifting through millenia of battles, he realizes "tried that, didn't work".

Sooo.. new plan, contradictory to the old. He strikes me like a master chess player with perfect recall of every game he's ever played. Only problem is, he keeps losing.

@neeknack - let's not forget Rand having access to the TP... I wonder if he still does after his epiphany? Remeber, in the AoL, the TP was supposed to be just a power source that Lanfear tried to tap into.

@theileen - I agree with this possibility whole-heartedly. of course, we must assume Elan was scholar able to truly penetrate the past. where does his reasoning of past lives and eternal battles stem from? He had this knowledge BEFORE his dedication to the DO. When was the Horn crafted? Did other heroes in T'A'R break the precepts to spread knowledge? Did he learn this through portal stone worlds?!? *sigh* so much more I wish to know.

I see the logic in stating that Moridin might be a double agent, but are we just infected with Snape-ism? We've already had our double agent, and she was awesome. I would be very sad to see that theme repeated, both times so close to the end of the saga.

Concerning Sanderson's quote: frequently woven together does not mean always in opposition. I would say Birgitte and Gaedal are frequently(and ALWAYS) woven together, as well.

Off topic, but related: Possibility of a Horn of Valere for the Shadow?? They call him the Lord of the Grave, but the only resurrections we've seen are of Forsaken (the shadow's Heroes). Was Kari al'Thor actually there, in T'A'R? was she a darkfriend ("the Great Lord has a honeyed tongue"... something to that effect)? was it an Illusion? If the DO has a shadow-version of the One Power, maybe there is a duplicate T'A'R. just a thought, as we have seen NO hints of such a thing.

I rambled, hope everyone understands what I'm saying.

Love you, Mashi! (in a non-creepy, not-stalker kind of way :):

I like them as poetry, but I am musically challenged. anyone want to actually set these to music. (couldn't carry a tune with the choden kal powering my Air).

I agree with Snowball, about Bandar Eban. Let us not also forget the warping of light around him (compared to the current aura) and Min hearing about only bad coincidences. While Rand was still in "balance", so to speak, both good things and bad things happened as a result of his ta'veren swirl. but as the darker part of him tool over, the pattern swirled in darker and darker events. Now that he is Light in truth, only good events swirl about him.

Perhaps the DO granting the Dragon the TP IS essential for victory. In the EotW, recall how Moiraine says the DO may even weave himself away with ta'veren influence? Well, Rand is MUCH stronger a ta'veren now than he was then. what if the counter is true - a strong enough ta'veren, tapped into the DO's source, causing a swirl, hell, a ta'veren typhoon, at the Bore itself, the thinness of reality?

@Neek, @Metal...

Somehow, I do not see Ishy turning from the Shadow voluntarily. We have already had our redemption moments - Ingtar, for one, and lovely, lovely Verin for the other. To have Ishy turn away with the key to the DOs defeat would reek of Deus Ex Machina. That would be more cliche than the end of The Dark Tower (Stephen King, for those who don't know).

Request for reference seconded.

Mashi, most Ter'angreal are multi-use, so they might still work; besides, it's a ring... even Gawyn should be smart enough to use it. :)

Mark, seems logical, we never do hear about Janduin's family, and many chiefs have sister-wives... but still, I think even were she Rand's blood, I think believing her essential is a stretch...

Metal, agree that Galad's new personality makes him a much better character. always dislike those black/white archetypes.

Spoke, I understand what Mashi means about accidental activation, but I believe it much more likely he does it on purpose... wouldn't take much, I think. Egwene goes down, hordes of shadow spawn surround them, its the only way for him to protect her until help breaks through.

YAY! first post.

Why would Gawyn accidentally use those Ter'angreal? Seems to me he is headstrong enough to deliberately use them. Thought: what would be the effects of using them all simultaneously? a Bloodknife using one was bad enough, with 3 (is it 3, or 2, gotta check later) he'd be nigh unstoppable.

Love you from afar, Mashi... women who think are hot!

perhaps, the forsaken(and SH?) have the spark for the TP, but the fades can learn it?

 

i dont think the saa could effect the fade(for obvious reasons), but we've yet to see inside of a fades mouth(sorry about the mental image) to see if theres caverns of fire...

except for the fade speaking in baerlon. rand would have DEFINITELY noticed a cavernous maw of flame.