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DRAGONMOUNT

A WHEEL OF TIME COMMUNITY

Flipsaken

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  1. I feel the same. I think they really do read like fanfiction. relatively good for fanfiction, but definitely still fanfiction. I kind of wish BS and TJ would come out and tell us which bits were written by RJ, which plot points were his, etc. I can understand why they don't, and it might not be quite fair to BS to do so, but I would prefer to know which scenes are cannon, and which I can re-imagine if I'm unsatisfied with. Of course it wouldn't be fair to BS. Any time something is revealed to be by BS, it gets picked apart.endlessly and not always rationally. As soon as something people have been picking apart is revealed to be written by RJ, suddenly it's not longer talked/bitched about. There's a real bias happening, far too often an irrational one at that. Not from everyone but from some the louder ones to be sure. Not to get me wrong though, I have no doubt it would have been written better by RJ himself but I was more than satisfied with BS. Not great by any means but he certainly didn't ruin the series for me like he has seemingly done for some. All I can say for sure is that given a choice between reading Books 8, 9 and 10 or 12, 13 and 14...the latter would win every time. My gripe isn't really about the quality of BS's writing, although that certainly was part of it. I would certainly not try to differenciate between what was BS and what was RJ. My problem I think is the whole package. BS stated clearly that he would not try to copy RJ's style of writing and don't have a gripe with that, but I did expect him to deliver the characters and plot with same the depth I was accustomed to and as the books progressed that depth decreased rapidly. AMoL was a very shallow book and ToM was a mess. TGS was ok, but I would pick WH, CoT and KoD over any of them any day. They may have had their flaws, especially CoT, but they had heart and that was missing from the BS books. They had the occassional section of good work, but they were surounded by oceans of unrecognisable characters and background. Much of this I lay at the door of TJ who should have been correcting that. Much has been made of the RJ contributions to the BS books, but I don't feel that much of the heralded RJ work is up to his normal standard and this is most likely because they would only be draft sections of work, not polished by multiple revisions. In fact I felt that the section in the Tower at the end of ToM was his poorest work in the series. I mean that by quality of characterisation and ploting as I hated the sections of Faile in the Shado camp and much of the rebel Aes Sadi plot but could not fault the quality of writing. So in the end it seemed to me that BS was completing the WoT as an author who didn't really understand the world or characters he was writting about and in the end he didn't even seem to care. However he seems to have been hindered by lack of proper editorial support and the overblown nature of the actual real work that RJ left behind. The world BS wrote, I didn't recognise as WoT and much as I tried I couldn't convince myself it was. The ending provided no satisfaction for me.
  2. The most striking thing about the Sanderson books for me is that I don't think I'll ever read them again. I have read all of RJs books at least three times since his death, but I've only read TGS twice and TOM once and I struggled to even finish AMoL. I know I'll re-read the series up to KoD again, but I just can't see me reading the last three. I just can't see them as cannon. It would have been far better to have left the series as it was than to finish it this way.
  3. Can't believe no ones thought of "Happy Together" by The Turtles for Mat and Toun Imagine me and you, I do I think about you day and night, it's only right To think about the girl you love and hold her tight So happy together If I should call you up, invest a dime And you say you belong to me and ease my mind Imagine how the world could be, so very fine So happy together I can't see me lovin' nobody but you For all my life When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue For all my life Me and you and you and me No matter how they toss the dice, it had to be The only one for me is you, and you for me So happy together I can't see me lovin' nobody but you For all my life When you're with me, baby the skies'll be blue For all my life Me and you and you and me No matter how they toss the dice, it had to be The only one for me is you, and you for me So happy together Ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba ba, ba-ba ba Ba-ba-ba-ba, ba-ba-ba-ba ba, ba-ba ba Me and you and you and me No matter how they toss the dice, it had to be The only one for me is you, and you for me So happy together So happy together And how is the weather So happy together We're happy together So happy together Happy together So happy together So happy together
  4. Ok, it's perhaps a bit harsh using that series as an example, but some of the same flaws are there, the flat characterisation, lack of empathy and the plot which just went by the numbers. I felt as though Eddings in that series was just going through the motions. AMOL is definitely not as bad as that, but found that I could not connect with the characters as I had when they were written by Jordan. The same could be said for Eddings as I could not connect with the characters in that series as I had for the Belgarion or Sparhawk books. That too was a painful series. I loved Eddings' books and had to buy the hardback Elder Gods just to have all his books on my bookcase. Having said that this is the only real comparison between the two. AMOL had too many other flaws to make it a proper ending to the series
  5. As a long time lurker I'd like to add my tuppence to this debate. Since Brandon took over the series the quality of the series has dropped considerably book by book. In TGS it wasn't too bad with it, some of the characters seemed a bit off, but with the exception of every thing involving Mat it was acceptable. Not great, but acceptable. In TOM things really started to go off the rails. Lots of characters were different, (Elayne became an absolute idiot) Aes Sedai and nobles started talking as though they were yokels. Many scenes made no sense, especially those when Mat and Perrin had audiences with Elayne which I personally found cringeworthy. The management of the timeline was appalling and the battle scenes that many of those here think are Brandon's strengths I found to be very poor. I had few hopes of AMOL being any better, especially after the released chapters. In truth I found it a little better than I expected, but only in a sense of bringing the series to a conclusion.The characterisation was gone. I didn't recognise any of the main characters as those Jordon wrote. At best they were cardboard cutouts of the characters, at worst they were caricatures, but mostly they were flat and bland. There seemed to be no empaphy with any of them. They were only there as a means to an end. The battles were battles for battles sake mostly and the continued repetition of the Perrin/Slayer feud was tiresome. I thought that most of the characters who died their deaths were poorly handled. I could go on forever about the lack of resolutions, the plot errors and the typos, but in the end it was the ending that annoyed me most. No explanation of what had happened between Rand and Modrin and the strange way his women reacted to it. It had the feel as some have said here of a David Eddings book, but not of one of his better early books but rather one of the very poor later books from the Elder Gods series. In short the only satisfaction I got from this book was that it finished the series, but it finished it with a wimper rather than a bang and for that I cannot thank Brandon or Team Jordon who I feel have let us down badly with this final product.
  6. I think yu've nailed it on the head NUN (oops anachroniming your username turned out somewhat unfortunate). RJ got us all hooked on the characters and the world and we all need that last fix, even if it's not quite the real thing. A bit like going to a Black Sabbath concert after Ozzy left. ;P
  7. What about all the "figure"s, "sures" and "folks" as well they all are just so jarring. Combine that with the cardboard characterisations and the conversations between nobles that sound as if they have never had an education. All of this made ToM a nightmare for me to read, especially the meeting between Perrin and Elyane which has all of these faults. Every time I re-read the book this is the part I find I have to skim through the most because it is so cringeworthy bad. For pete's sake it's even worse than Mat's letter.
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