23 hours ago, Scarloc99 said:

Just as an aside did you see the BBC adaptation of his dark materials, I thought is was brilliantly done, so much better then the movie. 

Oh, yeah, His Dark Materials. I keep thinking it was called "His Dark Shadows", and that absolutely is not what it was called 😄

Yes, I loved the BBC adaptation! I didn't think I was going to like it at all (given how abysmal Golden Compass turned out), but they really killed it with that.

7 hours ago, ilovezam said:

Strange. Here's the content of that page:

 

It's a little strange to me. It really is not all about Rand. He very much needed help from others and his character arc concludes with that realization. That does not mean he suddenly isn't the Dragon Reborn, the most powerful channeler of all time, the prophesized saviour and destroyer of the world, in both the show and the books.

The first book literally starts with this depiction before the first chapter even starts:

 

And the Shadow fell upon the Land, and the World was riven stone from stone. The oceans fled, and the mountains were swallowed up, and the nations were scattered to the eight corners of the World. The moon was as blood, and the sun was as ashes. The seas boiled, and the living envied the dead. All was shattered, and all but memory lost, and one memory above all others, of him who brought the Shadow and the Breaking of the World. And him they named Dragon.

 

I am totally cool with a more ensemble focused storytelling, but Rand still has to be the most powerful and impactful figure within the context of that ensemble. His character development depends on that on top of his his unwillingness and fear with regards to dealing with that power while needing to use it in order to do the right thing. 

 

In the books Elayne and post-damane Egwene tries to "teach" Rand how to use the Power, only to realise that they're completely bodied by Rand randomly channeling by feel. 

In the show thus far, none of his "feats" could not have been recreated by a novice like Elayne or a rando Aes Sedai like Liandrin. We are two seasons in and he knows neither how to use the sword nor channel, and it's a weird writing choice to say the least.
 

The thing I really like about the books, and how they've handled the show so far, is that they make it a point to say repeatedly (especially in the books) that Rand wasn't the only ta'veren, and that Perrin and Mat were both close to being as strong of one. There were even discussions about the girls being one as well, like Egwene, because of how events shifted around them. The whole "chosen one" thing here is actually a "chosen few", because without Mat, without Perrin, or Egwene, or one of the others from the Three Rivers, Rand wouldn't have been able to do what he had to do, being the Dragon and ta'veren or not. The show is pushing that a bit more, but I think it allows the show to be a little more fleshed out, as it's allowing one of the book series' more subtle subtexts to shine through. I think Rand will get his due, but by allowing the side characters the spotlight in the earlier books where Rand isn't really doing a whole heck of a lot (at least on the level of what's important for Tarmon Gaidon), it will allow them to be a little less central later, but have enough character development to keep people caring about what happens to them. One of the things I hate about some shows is that they only do character development on the main character (or maybe 2 characters) and the rest are just thrown in as script filler.

5 hours ago, trw1972 said:

Another long term reader here who registered just to discuss the show with other readers - i may have had a membership years ago, i used to spend a lot of time on wotmania and theoryland back in the day.

 

Overall i think i enjoyed season 2 more than most people here- yes they have greatly simplified the magic system and plot points. But i had expected that.  I would like to see more rand coming into his own in S3 however as we have had lots of limelight on egwene and nynaeve.

 

The lan plot did annoy me during the season - especially as the show is so short of time. But i liked the way they demonstrated a difference between unbonded and bonded Lan. 

 

I would have liked to have seen rand do more in the falme battle as well.

 

On the other hand i have absolutely LOVED the show version of Lanfear, i love this series of books but sometimes the bad guys did not feel fully fleshed out.  Show lanfear has come across clearly as someone who wants both rand and power to me. She has successfully portrayed jealousy, arrogance, obsession and an underlying instability. She has been a highpoint of the entire show for me.

I definitely agree, the actress for Lanfear is knocking it out the park, although I would say they had her in just a smidge too much later in the season. I get the reasoning for it, so I won't complain. I do like that they're focusing on the others at the moment. Egwene needs her time to become Amyrlin, and having her go through the Seachan "training"/torture/beatdown, and then come out of it stronger for it ("I will never be collared again!" and everything) was necessary for her later story arcs. Even in the books Rand really didn't have that much development until he went to Tear or even Rhuidian. I mean, he did start learning the sword stuff, but he really was just basically going with the flow and letting things happen for the most part until he decided to go to Tear, at least what I remember of it (it's been about well over 6 years since my last read through, so I might be misremembering).

Another thing I really like about the last episode is that Moirraine realized that the Dragon prophesies weren't just about things happening with only fate at the helm, which is what she thought up until that point (ie, that she didn't have to consciously do anything for them to happen, that they just would happen), but that she had to be an active participant in the process and intentionally make some things happen like the fire in the sky to announce the Dragon. 

Afternoon, all. Just finished the last episode of the show for this season, and figured it had been a long time since I was on here, I'd stop in and drop some thoughts into the thread. I'm an old school fan of the series, and was on here a bit back in 2012 when Memory of Light was released. Can't remember if I was on much before that, but I do still have a few posts from back then LOL

Anyhow, a little background: I started with reading about the time book 4 came out. I have read the first 4 books 11 times through, and each book after that one less time (I reread the entire series each time a new book was released, and reread the entire series again after finishing Memory of Light). I played the PC game when it came out several times. I have a signed copy of Knife of Dreams from Robert, and a signed version of Memory of Light from Brandon. My hope, though, is that when I say what I say, I'm not mentioning any of that to say that I have some sort of ownership of the series, or that my opinion is the only one allowed, I know there are strong feelings both ways about this, just like any other adaptation that's ever come out.  I'm going to "spoiler" my longer piece here so you don't have to read all of it if you don't but you're free to if you'd like.

I can say there are several things I haven't liked about the WoT series. The burning out thing at the end of Season 1 bothered me at Tarwin's Gap, although I do understand why they had the Aes Sedai doing it instead of Rand. Loial being stabbed by the dagger and being ok (of course, since having been acknowledged as being a mistake because of the COVID stuff going on, which now doesn't bother me as much). At first I also had an issue Moiranne not being able to channel after the end of S1, but S2 rectified that for me. What I have found is that even though there are some things I would have done differently, I am enjoying the series. I knew there were going to be massive changes. I also knew there were going to be things added that I might not like. I also knew there would be things omitted that I didn't like not being there. And when I accepted that and decided to let the show runners tell the story and leave my expectations out of it, I realized that I am getting to see a version of the story that I spent hundreds of hours pouring over in the books. Not exactly the same, and to be honest, I'm rather glad it's not the same (I couldn't imagine how boring books 9-10.5 would be on television o.O). The major beats of the story are there, but in a different order and some in different forms. I actually teared up a little bit at the end of this last episode because, while it was different than what I had envisioned from reading, it brought the story to the same point in the books at Falme.

Again this is all my own personal journey with it. It's easy to bring in expectations that are either unachievable or just wouldn't work in a real sense in the medium of television, and a few times I had to smack around the voice in my head that wanted to bring my expectations into the fray when all it would do was reduce my enjoyment of what the show is.

Whether you enjoy it or not is completely up to you. Whether the show meets your expectations, also, is up to you. Rafe and team are making the story that they know how to make, and are trying to do so with the limitations placed on them, and from what I can tell are trying to do so with as much reverence to the source material as they can muster and still work within the constraints that they have. Many other properties can't say the same. I mean, we could have a Nicolas Cage Ghost Rider level bad for this, or Shinara, or Golden Compass. But, we have far better than that.

I will admit, though, it's not perfect, and as they get better at their story telling, it will also improve. I mean, I already feel Season 2 is FAR better than Season 1, and I enjoyed Season 1. I love the casting, and boy was Moghedien creepy at the end of this last episode! Maybe you don't agree, and that's fine, but even with GoT's and how well it was done, this is the only attempt we'll probably ever get to see this in live action, for good or bad. My thought is, why not enjoy it for what it is, then to not enjoy it for what it isn't? Anyhow, I may join in on some of the more in depth discussions at some point when I have time, as I do miss having plot discussions on here!